I don't like it anymore

[Bram Hengeveld]

I don't know what it is but since the 2.0 upgrade the game feels totally ruined for me. The LMS cars, especially the Ford GT, have a griplevel like in iRacing. It suddenly snaps and there is no way you can correct the first or second (2nd!! how often do you see that in real life) slip like you used to.

Where did all the grip go? iRacing before the upgrade felt like driving real cars to me. Now its like rFactor again ;(

If there are any G27 users reading please share some information how you setup the wheel as my settings are useless now.

 

[Kakha Jomardidze]

i think iR is busy make with more arcade things!!! who need so many helps?!
better look at rF2 and make in game more really things...

 

[Bram Hengeveld]

Haven't tried the new tyres but if you prefer the old tyres you don't know much about real tyres, they will get it right eventually.

The old tyres at least had one thing that real slick tires have: grip. Maybe the new tires work great on ovals (not tested yet) but on the Ford GT and the Acura they can't be right they way they are now.

I am talking pure about grip and strange spins when accelerating. Not attacking curbstones and other things that have been improved and work great.

 

[Nick Brooke]

I have not really raced the road stuff since the new tires but the ovals do seem to be different. It takes on my setups about 3 laps for the tires to come in but when they do its great. When i did test the Ford GT out i couldnt keep it on the grey stuff at all as it was too slidy i thought i just needed shed oads of practice with them.

 

[Rich_A11]

Did you see Hamilton spin out of chicane at Hungary? It should be possible to spin out from low speed if car has enough power. The problem with the old tyre was that the peak slip angles would change relative to load, this is not realistic behaviour for modern tyre. Peak slip hardly changes at all.

A good analogy of this behaviour would be to compare playing snooker on a static and level table vs playing snooker on a table that increases elevation in direction that the white ball is being hit. 1 variable i.e. only balls moving makes for an enjoyable and understandable game, 2 variables results in incredible complexity off which the human brain is almost unable to make patterns out of.

So if new tyre is more real I would expect very little change in peak slip. Previously you would slowly increase steering as load increased to increase grip, instead try hack sawing back to center more and using smaller steering lock. Because peak grip doesn't change much most of the grip is when steering is only slightly off center. Increased steering is used to reduce front grip, kind of the opposite of what you're used to but because there's only 1 variable now it ought to be a lot easier to find consistency.

 

[Bram Hengeveld]

Did you see 23 other drivers not spin out on the same chicane at the Hungaroring?

Of course when you are too agressive on the throttle the car should eventually spin. However join an online practice session in iRacing with the Acura & Ford GT and you see 3/4 of the drivers not even being able to complete a single lap. They spin out, or go straight ahead under breaking and it aren't exactly slow drivers and they all lock up at some point due to the ueber sensitive brakes (general problem in iracing)

These two cars should be used in our upcoming Le Mans Series and complete 6, 8, 10 and 12 hour races and I am very pessimistic if this can be done.

I hope they can fix some of this stuff a.s.a.p.

 

[Dazmaniac]

i think iR is busy make with more arcade things!!! who need so many helps?!
better look at rF2 and make in game more really things...

The driving assists I believe you are knocking are only available at the Rookie levels, and if anyone is hosting sessions these can be disabled for all drivers. I don't think it's iRacing making the service 'more arcade' at all, just trying to give some assistance to drivers new to the service.

Whether your opinion on this feature is in favour or against it is another matter entirely.

Also, I'm sure rFactor had assists such as steering help, brake assist, throttle help etc. which I would guess would also be included in rFactor2. Does that make rF arcade?

 

[Nick Brooke]

The driving assists I believe you are knocking are only available at the Rookie levels, and if anyone is hosting sessions these can be disabled for all drivers. I don't think it's iRacing making the service 'more arcade' at all, just trying to give some assistance to drivers new to the service.

Whether your opinion on this feature is in favour or against it is another matter entirely.

Also, I'm sure rFactor had assists such as steering help, brake assist, throttle help etc. which I would guess would also be included in rFactor2. Does that make rF arcade?

You get these at rookie level and also you can use them in practice sessions too, well i can in C class but the only thing i have tried is the racing line thing just to smarten up my cornering

 

[Rich_A11]

Am getting new load cell tomorrow and will be driving this week so will give my opinion thereafter. All I'm saying is, the previous tyres had unrealistic peak slip behaviour and this would have caused many drivers to pick up bad habits. I'm hoping the new tyres will require different driving style cause I refused to drive the old tyres.

All the initial throw into the corner comes from the first 5 - 10 degrees and that's maybe only couple inches either way on wheel, so if you need to do an additional throw part way through a corner you would perhaps need to lift or touch brakes (get weight on front) and then bring wheel towards center and use the increased grip to throw the car back into the corner. Reports of understeer is a good sign to me as most drivers will not have changed driving style and the old style of driving will very definitely result in understeer because there ought to be no additional grip at high steering angles, if anything high steering angles are only used to decrease grip or slow car down.

Reports of drivers out braking themselves is good sign too as they are most likely trying to do heavy trail breaking with high steering input however this will now only reduce front grip and so prevent car from slowing down. Previously in fact, increasing steering angle while breaking could possibly result in increased front grip which is unrealistic behaviour. Can get rear stepping out by using the huge initial throw when weight is on front tyres to get rear out and thereafter decide if you need more or less front grip. If you get rear out you can reduce steering and so gain more increased front grip during a turn if you want it. Watch some FIA GT onboards and you'll see drivers throw the car into a turn and then do some hack sawing back and away from center, for such an aggresive style of driving it might make you wonder how the car stays on the track but it's acutally the easiest way to drive because the driver always knows what steering position the grip is at and knows that the position hardly changes at all. It's kind of like a switch, near center is grip on, off center is grip off and it doesn't ever change. Old tyres meant that the position constantly changed depending on how much load was on tyre. Of course, if you increase load on the tyre AND increase grip by going back to center position there will be yet more increased grip if chassis can handle it however the grip on position will not change with increased load. This is how all modern tyres work and it is by design because one less variable makes life far easier for the driver. Back in 70s peak slip did change with load and this I believe is what contributed towards more accidents.

 

[Phil Hopkins]

I've been reading this thread with interest. I like the NTM. I think I trust that these guys know what they are doing. They warned us repeatedly in their announcements that there would be grumbling, that people were going to have to relearn to drive correctly, and unlearn bad habits. I think this is a very important step forward.

I'm sure there's room for progress, and not every car works as well with the NTM, which is why we don't have it on the Corvette yet. And I'm no race car driver in RL, so have no idea about improved realism, but it feels right to me. I never learned the tricks for the OTM, as I preferred to drive the way I do in RL, and the way the race training books say. So perhaps I didn't learn bad habits. I'm pretty slow too, and not just because I didn't exploit the sim. But I'm not finding that hard to drive the new model and stay on the track and still get within my usual 3-5 seconds of the fast times.

And I find the Acura quite easy to drive, and drive hard.

I treat the GT like I treat the Vintage in NetKar, or like I treat the really powerful cars in GTL or P&G, that is by braking very early and being very gentle on the throttle. Like I said, I'm no race car driver, but that just makes sense to me for these kinds of cars. I, for one, am quite happy to have a sim to drive where the different cars ARE different. A GT40 SHOULD be VERY different to drive from a Star Mazda, I think.

Plus, I do like a challenge!

 

[Jack B]

Bram, don't know if you saw this thread, but things have changed quite a bit with the FFB settings. It's a change for the better, IMO, but you may need to tweak your settings.

http://www.racedepartment.com/iracing/61306-iracers-must-read-ffb-notice-for-2-0-a.html

As for the new tire model on the road cars, I prefer it to the old model. Just takes some re-adjustment. Some people are a bit faster, some are slower than their peers prior to the change. The ones that are slower probably aren't as happy as the ones that are faster. That was an expected outcome, but overall, it's an upgrade to the old tire model, IMO.

 

[Kakha Jomardidze]

The driving assists I believe you are knocking are only available at the Rookie levels, and if anyone is hosting sessions these can be disabled for all drivers. I don't think it's iRacing making the service 'more arcade' at all, just trying to give some assistance to drivers new to the service.

Whether your opinion on this feature is in favour or against it is another matter entirely.

Also, I'm sure rFactor had assists such as steering help, brake assist, throttle help etc. which I would guess would also be included in rFactor2. Does that make rF arcade?

they do not have to waste time on these!
unfair be helpers in car for example -auto Cluth... this is also only for rookie series?
i had look all fast drivers and they used almost all auto cluth.

and i not say that rF is arcade or iR. netKar Pro has also arcade things and helpers.
my desire is be fair play for all, without helpers!!!

 

[Bram Hengeveld]

@Jack B, i have changed all those things. Its not a steeringwheel issue. Its a lack of grip in the Ford GT.

 

[George Pilkington]

Interesting thread. Thanks Bram.
Get back on yer horse and Ride! : )
George

 

[Bram Hengeveld]

Oh I am riding alright

 

[Mike Roe]

Them slow turns at Silverstone in the GT were just undrivable, you have to creep round and even then the backend will just flip out for no reason, I found a great way to solve this problem though.... I went back to driving the lovely V8!!

Might try the GT again this week at WG.

 

[Saul Boucher]

Hey Bram, I'm not sure the NTM really has much to do with it. I think it's just the Ford GT.. In all fairness, we can't compare the NTM to the OTM because we've never had that car with the OTM. They need to do a little refining with the NTM on the Ford GT, mostly with the Tire pressures and Temperature differentials from what I understand. Perhaps that will make it a little more drivable, but we'll just have to wait and see. The Ford GT is a heavy beast of a car to start out with, but to be honest I think a lot of the NTM issues have been blown a little out of proportion due to mainly two issues. The default setups for the Ford GT are Horrible... and the Force Feedback problem that arised after the update. Once you get a decent setup on the car, and get your force feedback calibrated properly it gets a little easier to drive. But to be honest, I still don't like the car. But that's just my personal preference, I much prefer cars that are much more lighter and nimble.

I don't race ovals, so the only other comparison I've been able to make between the OTM to the NTM is with the Skippy. On the skippy, I like the NTM. I've noticed I can 'feel' the setup adjustments I make much better than with the OTM, and it definately feels realistic although I admit I've never had any real track experience with it. I am hoping the expected update addresses tire temps and pressures again though. I'd just simply like to be able to make some sort of sense out of them, so I know how to approach setting up my car properly. Whether that be in an entirely new fashion, or in the usual method we've been using in our sims up to this point..

 

[Danny Asbury]

I love he NTM so far. Very surprised to have read all the negative comments towards it on the iRacing forums and here. I think Acura is a superb car, a real challenge to drive. It forces the driver to approach the limit with actual caution. Not every lap can be 100% flatout. So should be good for the endurance league.

 

[George Pilkington]

I like the NTM too, but I have very limited expericence in sim racing to be honest.
The GT40 is a fat heavy muther so needs to be driven with some panache... I dont think its easy at all, but I like the LMP alot.
Perhaps iRacing are right and we all need to 're learn' a bit...
George

 

[Rich_A11]

It's not as heavy as a Nascar, p/w ratio is about 1:2 which makes for a nice drive. Have driven it all night at Wakins Int and managed a low 1m47. Tried the iRacing setup and found it difficult, set sways to 4 4, lowered differential and preload, increased front springs a little and decreased rears a little, increased F camber to -3.7 or so, R to -1.9 ish, decreased R pressures a bit. Was loose but could be more aggresive than iRacing setup. Stiffened rear rebound too to get rear loose on brakes and put bias to 59F.

Liked the tyres, they're quite snappy and unforgiving but there's enough play for it to be realistic and the grip levels feel about right. It should be possibly to spin out in a 600hp car on slicks in 3rd and for sure the Ford GT doesn't take much persuading to make it spin in 3rd. Can't really think of much I disliked, maybe the chassis gets a little sloppy at high speed - but it feels pretty solid in mid speed turns and there is always a balance to be had there. Will be doing many more laps and I hope they get the issues sorted and new tyres finished soon.

 

[Jack B]

It's not as heavy as a Nascar, p/w ratio is about 1:2 which makes for a nice drive. Have driven it all night at Wakins Int and managed a low 1m47. Tried the iRacing setup and found it difficult, set sways to 4 4, lowered differential and preload, increased front springs a little and decreased rears a little, increased F camber to -3.7 or so, R to -1.9 ish, decreased R pressures a bit. Was loose but could be more aggresive than iRacing setup. Stiffened rear rebound too to get rear loose on brakes and put bias to 59F.

Liked the tyres, they're quite snappy and unforgiving but there's enough play for it to be realistic and the grip levels feel about right. It should be possibly to spin out in a 600hp car on slicks in 3rd and for sure the Ford GT doesn't take much persuading to make it spin in 3rd. Can't really think of much I disliked, maybe the chassis gets a little sloppy at high speed - but it feels pretty solid in mid speed turns and there is always a balance to be had there. Will be doing many more laps and I hope they get the issues sorted and new tyres finished soon.

Rich, yeah I think for many drivers, once they started tweaking the setup or found one on the forums their opinion changed. I think they rushed the setups a bit, but often the stock setups are not suitable for all driving styles.

Between the setups, the FFB changes and the new tire model it's a lot to get used to in a short period of time, but more and more people seem to be really enjoying the new tire model.

Also, Tony Gardner said they would have a small update this week to tune the setups and some behavior they wanted to fix. The NTM will continue to get better with these updates, but it's already an pretty big upgrade from the OTM.

Once they then start to focus on aero for the ovals, things will just keep getting better. I love the constant updates at iRacing. It keeps things fresh.