Hulkenberg Roll - Halo Helped, or Hindered?

[Tylda]

The only thing that would've saved Jules would have been to go slower. He was going to fast for the conditions.

The only thing that would save Jules was race officials who are not greedy and know what is logical thinking.

 

[michelforest]

Btw: where were the Marshalls ? Panic all over the place and none of them seemed to actually know what to do. Reaction time was massively slow during all 'interventions', not only in Hulks case. All of their actions were not coordinated at all... Really bad imo.

Marshalls are volunteers who sometimes put their lives on the line in order to make the races happen. (A marshall died at the Canadian GP not too long ago. Another one died in Australia when he was struck by Jacques Villeneuve's car.) So they may have been a little slow in your opinion, but the fact is, there is every reason to think that they already knew that Hulkenberg was ok and so time was not a big concern. The only way to have a "perfect" crew of marshalls would be to have a permanent, fully-paid crew that goes to every race. That would probably way too expensive.

 

[JayOTT]

Oh, and by the way, Propaganda is biased and twisted information for the benefit of the writer. What I wrote is factual, unbiased and proven.

No. You consistently claim more victories for the Halo than it is entitled to, discredit the Shield when it was shelved before it had a chance to be thoroughly tested, and seem to think that anyone who questions this line of logic is an idiot. I'd like to add you to my ignore list like I did on GT Planet to make sure I never talk to you again, but you're a staff member. So I have to settle for the disagree button.

As for me, the overarching concept behind me looking for any reason to be as anti-Halo as Jim is pro-Halo is betrayal. I feel that the FIA betrayed the teams by not accepting the 9-1 vote split. The FIA betrayed the drivers by adding a potential distraction to their cockpit. And they betrayed the fans by saying they would make the cars look better only to slip this in.

That's why I'm not ending my boycott even if I have to begrudgingly accept that LeClerc's hands were saved. Some may have grown to accept the betrayal as just another chapter in F1's history of knee-jerk changes, but I have not. I'll also admit that this passion hasn't always led to rational thinking in the past, but when the other side is claiming questionable victories and dismissing another solution that just needs some TLC, I don't think I'm any more or less crazy most of the time.

For everyone's sake, I'm hoping this is the last post I have to make on the matter for a while as I've pretty much said everything that I can say now.

 

[Fanapryde]

Marshalls are volunteers who sometimes put their lives on the line in order to make the races happen. (A marshall died at the Canadian GP not too long ago. Another one died in Australia when he was struck by Jacques Villeneuve's car.) So they may have been a little slow in your opinion, but the fact is, there is every reason to think that they already knew that Hulkenberg was ok and so time was not a big concern. The only way to have a "perfect" crew of marshalls would be to have a permanent, fully-paid crew that goes to every race. That would probably way too expensive.

I agree on most, and I do know what I'm saying.
In every case where the marshalls had to react during this particular race, they were (way) too slow and undecided, as if they had no clue how to react. For that you need training and experience, volunteer or not. There should be automatisms. That was not the case and (most of) these guys were clearly not ready for the task.
If you get the chance, watch the incidents closely, focusing on them and you'll see.

 

[michelforest]

I agree on most, and I do know what I'm saying.
In every case where the marshalls had to react during this particular race, they were (way) too slow and undecided, as if they had no clue how to react. For that you need training and experience, volunteer or not. There should be automatisms. That was not the case and (most of) these guys were clearly not ready for the task.
If you get the chance, watch the incidents closely, focusing on them and you'll see.

Indeed, I agree with you after watching the video. This probably had to do with the fact that Abu Dhabi does not have a real tradition of racing, in comparison with places with Monte-Carlo, Italy, England, etc.

 

[Ricoow]

The only way to have a "perfect" crew of marshalls would be to have a permanent, fully-paid crew that goes to every race. That would probably way too expensive.

I'd gladly take that job

 

[Slowdive]

Halo isn't perfect, but it is better than nothing. In this case it MAY have hindered his leaving the car.
At this point, we don't really know for sure.
Maybe it was his body weight against the harness keeping him from escaping.
We do know the lack of halo has been at the core of driver deaths...Justin Wilson comes to mind.

It DEFINITELY hinders leaving the car. That is without question. Whether it would've killed him or not, is debatable. I suspect in a panic situation, and you could hear a bit of panic in his voice, it could be the difference between life and death.

 

[Lesley Buurlage]

Judging from the photo jason posted of the crash, niko wouldn't had gotten out with or without the halo, the car at the front is resting on the nose cone, and at the rear with a tyre on the barrier and with the t-cam. If you would imagine the halo away the gap for escape would still be pretty small and considering nico is one of the tallest drivers on the grid i highly doubt that he would be able to climb out from that.
Was anti-halo when it got introduced, but over the year i got used to it and didn't gave it much thought, and although i still don't like the look of it, the sophia flörsch crash has fully moved me to the pro-halo side. Now that was a crash where i would rather had seen a halo on the car than not

 

[jpalesi]

I still think the introduction of the halo was a knee-jerk reaction to an accident caused by one driver failing to stick to the rules (i.e. Bianchi not slowing down sufficiently under double yellow flags).

That's a LOT of crap, and I mean, a lot. I was going to reply something more elaborated, but below sums up what I was going to write.

The FIA absolutely had blood on their hands after the Bianchi crash, so they had to put the blame onto Bianchi rather than themselves. The decision to have a tractor on a live race circuit was what killed Bianchi, not the fact he was going “too fast”. He was a racing driver, it was his job to push the car to the edge, even in the yellow flag zones, in fact backing off might cause that to get worse as you have less downforce and would likely aquaplane more.

The FIA, bowing to “commercial pressures” to keep the racing running on time (and not dispatch a safety car) is what killed Bianchi.

Absolutely. One of the changes for the following year was to make the Asian and Australian races start earlier. If Bianchi's crash was 100% his fault, why the need to start the races earlier ?
Very simple : the races can be 2 hours long, but they started the race so late that the race would have been flagged due to darkness. So race "control" didn't want the Safety Car to try to get as much race in before the end.

And, anyone who has followed F1 long enough knew that it was a dangerous spot, as Brundle has shown in 94 under similar rainy conditions.

Finally, the investigations were led by FIA. Anyone believes that FIA would have blamed FIA for that ???

Oh and also, the following year I think, in qualify at Spielberg, there was a yellow flag. A driver had been penalized for not slowing down under yellow flags, but in the end no penalty. An onboard has been shown, with telemetry, and all it took was lifting for less than half a second (and lose like 3 kph) to comply to the rules. But they could determine that Bianchi didn't slow down enough by the rule. Amazing.

 

[Fat-Alfie]

I don't want to get into an argument, but do you think the outcome would have been the same if he had been driving at 80kph instead of 123kph?

 

[jpalesi]

Do you think the outcome would have been the same if he had been driving behind a Safety Car instead of having officials trying to squeeze as much green flag racing as possible before the night ?
Safety is paramount they say. Until money is an obstacle.

 

[Antony Snook]

I originally thought the Haylo helped. Then Martin Trundle mentioned it trapped him from getting out. Hense the car had to be turned over. before he could get out. Luckily Nico had no major injuries. Or turning the car over would have not been a option as it can do further damage to a injured person.

 

[Antony Snook]

That said the Halo has been good at protecting the drivers in other incidents. Alonso said it had protected him from a crash this season. But there is not such thing as a perfect solution to all scenarios.
Though it is hard to get in and out the car espeshaly when drivers are typically very short as they are lighter.

 

[Antony Snook]

best avaible between only two tested solution sadly... FIA doesn't even care about Scalabroni's Active Windscreen (wich have, unfortunately only on paper, a saefty sleeve pin wich can be released by pilot inside or marshall outside), they always want Halo and they do it so...
Anyway this was an edgy situation where Halo should have a button that made possible the release of the structure, wich i was thinking was implemented since beginning and not made it attached to the car.

There can be a locking pin external to the body work that a marshal can pull. There is one that cuts of electricity or the engine. right near the fuel tank.

 

[Antony Snook]

The way the car landed it hindered the extraction of the driver since it came to rest upside down, I would have a rethink of the design of the halo to make sure if the car is upside down the driver is able to get out, also if that fire had got hold how would the driver have gotten out, so I would consider it a double edged sword in this case, it saved his life, yes BUT it also hindered the extraction since the car needed to be rolled over but again to get the Hulk out of there....

Extraction is down to Marshals and the Medical team. If he had been in a coma or injured there would have to be a alternate procedure. But he was ok and that is important.

 

[Turk]

The only way to have a "perfect" crew of marshalls would be to have a permanent, fully-paid crew that goes to every race. That would probably way too expensive.

There would be advantages and disadvantages. The local crew would have years of experience with their own track, they'd know the whole facility like the back of their hand, even little things like which entrance gets flooded during heavy rain could be invaluable.

One crew covering all tracks would take time to get up to speed on each track, they wouldn't know the local people they need to know, they may not speak the local language, they may even get confused between different tracks when under pressure.

I don't think the Halo was a problem in this crash, once the crash has happened there's really no mad rush to get the driver out of the car bar the car bursting into flames. The fact the driver can't get out without help is an inconvenience for the most part.

 

[Kurupt CDN]

Motorsport.com, Edition: Global: Exclusive: Halo saved Leclerc from visor strike in Spa crash.
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/leclerc-spa-crash-visor-halo/4309428/

 

[protonv5]

The halo reminds me of electric cars. Both are a so-called attempt to make things better, but make things worse.

 

[prostetnik]

Still don't understand that the did not started with the halo intruducing it in lower formula classes.
Seen more accidents there where it could have made a difference than in F1 actually.
For Sophia Flörsch it might have saved her from neck-injury.

How would it have prevented that? It might have helped the guy in the car which made Sophias car airborne, but her impact hat nothing to do with a HALO-System, she hit the fence/fotographer-stand backwards.