How to not suck at rFactor?

[JHeaton]

Hi guys,

I've had rFactor for ages now but never really put much time in to it because, honestly, I'm terrible at it. One of the main issues that I have is exiting corners. I like to drive open wheel mods (currently using FSR with the hopes of improving enough to participate in one of the online series but that's not looking likely at this rate...) and it seems that I constantly have the following issues:

• Can't hit braking points correctly. Either I brake way too early and arrive at the corner too slow, or else brake too late and overshoot, meaning I'm running wide through the turn.
• Struggle with traction coming out of the corners. This one is the weirdest one; I try to be gentle and feed in the throttle gradually, but either I end up putting down too much power or else crawl out of the corner and then get up to speed, by which point I've been passed.

Generally, my lap times are anything from three to ten seconds off everyone else's and I can't see how to get better. When I put in a perfect lap where everything seems to go well, I'm still miles behind and it's frustrating because it seems no matter how much I vary my braking points, pressure applied to the pedals etc. I just can't seem to iron out the above problems and make progress. It's very rare that I can string together a lap where I don't make a mistake and it's getting to the point where I'm considering just giving up.

Does anyone have any advice on how I can maybe work out why I can't get these things right and start to actually drive the sim properly?

Thanks.

 

[William Levesque]

Pretty much only Endurance racing has traction control, just sayin'

 

[Gary Jibb]

Well I am a full on Endurance guy, so it may not be my fault BUT!!!
F1 does has traction control (maybe not this year (I don't know), but they definitely have in the past). They also have the torque and diff setting which adjust when the power gets put on (IE Traction control in my mind. Anything that adjusts the when the power is put down. Don't make me get out a dictionary!)

 

[William Levesque]

F1 had TC from 92' to 08' (or about that, they banned it in 94' but yeah, some teams kinda cheated and the ban was released because off all the bullshit around it)

As for the diff settings, nothing you can't do in-game on the same cars

 

[David O'Reilly]

I would have to agree with the subtle point that (I think) Willian is making re traction control.
In my view it is not the way to go on 2 fronts:
1) Skill, it reduces the skill invlolved in throttle control. Controlling the car invloves controlling 3 inputs, steering, throttle and brakes. with TCS you are outsourcing throttle control. You no longer need to feather throttle or shortshift to keep the car balanced. You also lose the ability top induce slight power oversteer when you want to and will only get plough understeer on full trhottle.
2) Setups. TCS will camouflage bad setup. If you have traction issues due to balance, springs or any other setup issue TCS will mean no wheelspin , no throttle oversteer just reduced power, its harder to sense. Setup is all about maximising grip and if you use TCS poor rear end grip will be hidden.
I reckon (with due respect to all posts above) that you need to learn without TCS, if you dont you will just have to learn again.

Because F1 teams had clever ways to hide TCS in their ECU mappings within the pit lane speed limiter system the FIA ended up solving it by giving McLaren the contract to provide all teams with a standard sealed ECU.
Bennetton are suspected very widely of using it in the era when Schumacher won his first WDC. They have acknowldeged it was in the car but maintain that they didnt use it.
Flavio Briatore was the manager. Yes Flavio whatever you say.

 

[Gary Jibb]

Wrote a whole shpeal but felt it unnecessar, starting over.
The point here is that he doesn't get traction out of a corner. Obviously it's a set-up issue. Depending on how new he is the the racing world, TC may be a viable option to overcome his clumsy feet (if that's what the problem is). I'd rather use TC than spin out every third corner because I'm new at it. The point is having fun while learning to progress, not being upset that you can't get around a corner without crashing into a wall at 150.
Try changing set-up.Springs, pressures, whatever. Little changes make big differences (eventually).
We should all agree that we always learn different techniques for the way we drive otherwise how would we progress. Maybe he does suck, maybe he's faster than all of us and his pedals have a half second lag in the timing and that's why, I don't know. Anyways...

I don't think any pro driver would complain about a little TC if it made him faster. That's my point.

 

[David O'Reilly]

I respect you have your view but Gary we disagree. Forgive me but I will go to some length here as this subject is important to a drivers development. Sorry.

In my view its a driving technique question first and a setup question second.
If he is not getting traction on corner exit it isnt a given that its setup it may be throttle control or even gear selection.
My take on the OP is that his central frustration is that he is strugggling with technique. Its asking how to improve his driving and half the problem stated is throttle control. He states he wants to progress to racing open wheelers in FSR. In that league TCS is not permitted at all but the basic level. Turning on TCS will just numb him to any bad tecnique and get him into bad habits which later have to be unlearned.

Each scenario is different on that I will agree. If the post was "I am stuck at home with 4 kids and have 1 hr per night to play this game, how can I complete a lap? Then I think TCS is an acceptable answer.
The OP is not sayinh hey I want to have more fun he is saying I want to seriously get better.

Your final assertion that any Pro driver would accept TCS if it made him a little faster is in my view also incorrect. A pro driver wants to maximise his skill. TCS will make the car faster not him.
So my conclusion is that to recommend turning on TCS to someone who wants to seriously improve their car control and lap time is incorrect.
I will add below a section on throttle control.

An expanded piece on driving without TCS (Traction control system).
As we move to lower assists some drivers have asked for more info on driving without TCS.
Definitely need to have assists off to get any feedback in a setup/testing session. TCS and ABS will both just hide poor setup.
If you think about sitting in a car weighing 650KG with 745HP in a car park with your steering wheel turned and flattening the throttle and imagine what would happen....
Then think about reducing steering lock to 20% and feathering (slight use of) the throttle. The difference between the two is throttle control.
Corner Exit:The more steering lock you have “wound on” and the slower you are going the greater the propensity for wheel-spin. TCS will manage this by taking off power the moment there is a hint of wheel-spin. For you to drive well without TCS the key skill really is to manage a progressive throttle application. If you stomp on the throttle with the wheel turned you will get wheel spin and possibly a slide. In essence you gradually/progressively apply throttle as you wind off steering lock. As your wheel straightens the foot goes down. It is really a movement that is linked as if by an invisible piece of string. This is why Walter Rohrls’ brilliant mental picture of a piece of string works so well.
In your head there is a piece of string tied from the bottom of the steering wheel to the big toe of your throttle foot. So you can only access full throttle when the wheel is straight. Automatically as you straighten the wheel exiting a corner your string gets longer allowing more throttle.
Another mental image could be: 1st gear 30% throttle, 2nd gear. 60 %, 3rd gear 90%, 4th gear 100%.
If we want to get even more precise and technically correct the aero down-force influence starts to kick in as speed picks up. By 5th gear the string is replaced by elastic, by 6th gear it’s not there at all. Hence Eau Rouge you can have near full lock at full throttle in 6th-7th at 250kph.
Another interesting phenomenon is where you might in a fast corner wind off lock temporarily to allow more throttle/acceleration then as aero influence kicks in wind on more lock. This happens in Spa corner 10-11 “Pouhon”. Under full fuel approaching in 6th gear I will brake at about 75 metres and downshift to 4th. Once getting good turn in, feed in more throttle on slight lock and as corner opens in 5th give full throttle then 6th at corner exit with full lock. The higher speed gradually allows more lock due to aero influence (and in a small way centrifugal effect of the wheels).
So in essence you have to develop a connection between the movements of your hands and of your feet. Here follows the section in the F1 2010 Advanced Drivers Guide that also deals with it albeit briefly.

1) Exit. The simplest and least cerebral part where you benefit from your good work in braking and apex phase. At this point you want to get the power down as fast as possible without breaking traction. The car will accelerate faster with minimum steering lock so once past apex allow the car to drift as wide as possible under throttle. If you leave track remaining unused outside you it means you could have carried more speed in corner or applied throttle earlier or harder or used less steering input on exit. All of these actions will net more speed. Exiting slow corners one must be mindful of avoiding wheel spin. This is because of the extra acceleration available in lower gears and the reduction in aero down force at lower speeds. In faster corners you can apply throttle more aggressively. The co-efficient of adhesion is higher than that of friction so wheel spin costs time. When dealing with throttle application a good mental image is that of a piece of string tied to the bottom of the steering wheel and your big toe. As you wind off lock your big toe is freed to apply more throttle.

 

[David O'Reilly]

Hi guys,

I've had rFactor for ages
Does anyone have any advice on how I can maybe work out why I can't get these things right and start to actually drive the sim properly?

Thanks.

JHeaton, another suggestion. Get the GP2 Mod (from Club section. Its only 8 sec a lap down on the F1 but a little less twitchy, I'm loving it as a learning tool.
PS Shortshifting may help too (upshifting early B4 very high revs).

 

[Dave Flower]

I've not read all of the posts - I started at post 1 and one thing came to mind that someone may have covered, so forgive me if they have.

Controller 1 sensitivity settings in Control Settings - too high for throttle and brake means you have to have REALLY accurate ankles to balance the pedal in just the right spot and not move it up or down a lot whilst cornering or braking - if you have it at 100% even a slight movement of the pedal will apply a lump more throttle or brake - which could be the difference between spinning the wheels up coming out of a bend or locking the wheels under braking -people often overlook this and novices may well set these to 100% - I don't have 100% sensitive feet and ankles, nor does anyone else - many of the faster guys are using 0 - 15% sensitivity for throttle and brake. Hope this might help someone.

Edit - Just gone back - Yes this is covered a little on page 1 but quickly becomes about the wheel not the pedals - its the pedals that lock the wheels or spin the wheels up more than where the wheel is or what rotation your using. Thats not to say ALL of what is written above should be discounted because it ALL makes sense and of course will make a difference.

 

[Gary Jibb]

@ David - (your on my list j/k) We really do disagree quite a bit... I bet we could have a good afternoon argument about everything. I'm solely saying my opinion based on what I read from what is already written, we're probably taking it in completely different context's. No hard feelings and I would like to call a trues (even though I still feel (in this circumstance) that I am right, I will not get wound up about TC techniques or drivers preferences any longer.)
And honestly, without either of us being Fernando Alonso or Allan McNish I think neither of us have a proper opinion.


I do seriously believe that for anyone to help him, we need him to give more feedback to what the problem is. I agree it's probably to be an actual controller issue. Maybe he's using a 15 year old MadCatz wheel. But maybe he's only been into sim racing for a year and doesn't get alot of seat time. I'm out of this conversation of trying to help someone go faster until he gets serious about what he needs help with specifically.

 

[David O'Reilly]

@ David - (your on my list j/k) We really do disagree quite a bit... .

No problems. We are free to disagree with ideas that how constructive discussion works.
At least we read each others posts before remarking on them

 

[Boy van de Laar]

My experience with TC was pretty simple. I started with max TC and slowly worked my way down to no TC after a few months. Now i got the feeling that any driving aid will only slow me down as i will lose feedback between my inputs and what the car is doing. The more experienced i get the more responsive i like the cars to be as i'm constantly trying to ride the balance.

EDIT: There are some cars that require TC to be quicker at some point like the Diesel LMP's for example.

 

[Ben Crooks]

The trick to TC is to turn it on but get good enough with the throttle for it to never actually have to kick in. Although with the Diesels it's always gonna kick in

 

[Rokas Charlapavicius]

I also started to use a wheel and everything went smoothly until I disengaged the auto clutch I'm just staling or overreving all the time , so any tips on how to use this clutch thing?

 

[William Levesque]

Ermmmmm... Practice ?

 

[Ivan Navarro]

I also started to use a wheel and everything went smoothly until I disengaged the auto clutch I'm just staling or overreving all the time , so any tips on how to use this clutch thing?

Set the Clutch Sensitivity to the max percentage and play with deadzone setting until it engages how you like it.

 

[Ho3n3r]

From experience, I know that using TC makes it very hard to unlearn the bad habits once you go full sim.

In fact, keeping the car straight when accelerating is still my single biggest problem since ending my driving aid usage about 4 months ago - and all because I sometimes forget that I cannot accelerate at will(bad habit from TC). So my suggestion is to just start without it immediately, and practice a lot.

However, it does help in the long run, and as pointed out, it helps a lot to tweak your setup for better experience whilst driving.

The lowering TC bit by bit seems to be the best way to go if you have time though

 

[David O'Reilly]

Well we have all had a very illuminating discourse here but the original poster appears to have left the building.
Hope someone reads it!

 

[Ho3n3r]

Well we have all had a very illuminating discourse here but the original poster appears to have left the building.
Hope someone reads it!

Hehe. Maybe he doesn't suck anymore

I'm sure someone else will find the thread useful!

 

[Kjell Eilertsen]

I read it and find it useful! I´m very much a n00b to sim racing as I just got started, so I´m combing these forums picking up what tips I can to improve.
Been a F1 nut for years, a car lover even longer and a gamer even longer than that, so it suprises me that I´m this late to the sim party xD

 

[Dave Wild]

Can a novice learn anything by watching the in-game AI?