How do isolate the vibrations from the Buttkicker as much as possible?

[cosmokram3r]

Hey all

The mrs isn't too fond of the vibrations from my new buttkicker so I bought some anti-vibration rubber pads and put them around my rig so that it's elevated. It helped a bit but it still wasn't good enough. I tried stacking 2 of the pads on top of each other, that helped. I then added on top of the rubber pads some foam gym floor mats and that has helped a bit more too.

But it's still not quiet enough! What else can I do here to try and reduce this noise and vibration as much as possible? I'd love to be able to crank it right up!

I've uploaded a few photos below of my setup. Any advice is appreciated!

IMG20200706165249.jpg

drive.google.com

IMG20200707012007.jpg

drive.google.com

 

[Squared Circle]

I assume that you verified that the sound comes from the whole rig vibrating (as decoupling the rig from the floor seems to help). In this case the infamous e-drums-platform can help (it did for me):
https://www.racedepartment.com/thre...rade-for-tactile-feedback.185182/post-3199741

In addition it would be great if the energy you are dampening "away" with the platform (or now with rubbers and foam) would stay where it matters: Exactly where you mounted it. The thread linked up there also contains some info on what worked for me: mounting the shaker(s) to the exact part of the rig that I want to move and decouple this part from the rest of the rig using industrial rubber/steel parts. It may be harder to do on a ready-made rig as I guess those are not made for adapting but maybe you find a way that's possible.

 

[metalnwood]

Are you sure the remaining sound is actually coming from the vibration transferring in to the ground?

They still make noise and you may have done 95% of what is possible short of turning down the power to them. The easiest solution may be a pair of bose 700's, maybe thats what she is angling for anyway

 

[metalnwood]

On your pics, I can't see where the trasducers are actually mounted, if they are on the seat you may be able to also mount your seat to the rig using vibration mounts, something like these which I used at one point. You could also try to squish some of that foam between the seat and frame and bolt it back down.

4122 Male / Female | Hi-Q Components

www.hiq.co.nz

 

[cosmokram3r]

I actually think now it's not as much the vibrations but more the sound. It is a bit loud but I guess there's no way to fix that short of sound proofing the room?

 

[CRMS]

I mounted the BKG2 on a seat sub frame and then the seat sub frames on rubber bobbins onto the main rig.

Tactile Immersion - General Discussion - Hardware & Software

So as these forums do not seem to have a place specific for general chat, questions or people sharing their own tactile experiences. I thought it might be a good thing to start one. General banter, or show your rigs, discuss what you have, perhaps what you like or dislike. Technical queries...

www.racedepartment.com

 

[TShrimp]

I actually think now it's not as much the vibrations but more the sound. It is a bit loud but I guess there's no way to fix that short of sound proofing the room?

Maybe just turn it down the vibrations until it is at an acceptable level. My wife and I were able to compromise on a level that vibrated enough, but didn’t disturb her too much.

 

[Mr Latte]

Sound Dampening materials (more audible frequencies)
Antivibration materials (low bass)

Lots of different companies make solutions
FATTMAT or DYNAMATT are popular for vibration reduction, sound deadening underlay or similar for audio suppression.

One easy options is to place the rig on large rubber castors will decrease the surface contact with the floor

I opted to use these pro solutions on my rig which combines 3 products
These are used by car companies

 

[cosmokram3r]

Sound Dampening materials (more audible frequencies)
Antivibration materials (low bass)

Lots of different companies make solutions
FATTMAT or DYNAMATT are popular for vibration reduction, sound deadening underlay or similar for audio suppression.

One easy options is to place the rig on large rubber castors will decrease the surface contact with the floor

I opted to use these pro solutions on my rig which combines 3 products
These are used by car companies

Thanks good idea. Large rubber castors would be like the big rubber wheels with locks so it doesn't move yeah? Won't the vibration go through the wheels into the carpet into the floor into the house? Your other options sound a tad too pricey I think with the pro hardware.

 

[Jeremy Ford]

You're never going to eliminate noise completely, even is your sim rig was floating off the ground. Bass shaker Vibrations produce noise. A lower noise option would be the JetSeat? I have the Realtus ForceFeel Feel, here's a demonstration of the sound level:

But most people would recommend the JetSeat due to problems with waiting times on the Forcefeel. That's covered in the video also.

 

[Mr Latte]

Thanks good idea. Large rubber castors would be like the big rubber wheels with locks so it doesn't move yeah? Won't the vibration go through the wheels into the carpet into the floor into the house? Your other options sound a tad too pricey I think with the pro hardware.

One single solution isn't usually the answer

I recommended, to also look into FattMat and Dynamatt materials as they are not expensive.
If you can install, rubber isolators on seat/pedal sections of your build, that is the first point of reducing vibrations and helping to maintain the tactile energy in those places.

We call this isolating/decoupling the seat and pedals as it detaches these from a rigs main frame.
The idea is to increase the felt energy from the tactile as by doing this we prevent the energy from escaping over the whole rig freely with no resistance and wasting its energy. See what others have done in the general tactile thread.

After this you can place materials like Dynamatt at feet support areas or then use rubber castors to reduce the vibes and contact with the floor.


Here

For the floor itself, you could buy easimat floor tiles (like shown above) and beneath these have sound-deadening or soundproofing type mat. More layers will dampen more dB from the vibration or noise from harmonics or reverb.

All options to consider...

 

[cosmokram3r]

One single solution isn't usually the answer

I recommended, to also look into FattMat and Dynamatt materials as they are not expensive.
If you can install, rubber isolators on seat/pedal sections of your build, that is the first point of reducing vibrations and helping to maintain the tactile energy in those places.

We call this isolating/decoupling the seat and pedals as it detaches these from a rigs main frame.
The idea is to increase the felt energy from the tactile as by doing this we prevent the energy from escaping over the whole rig freely with no resistance and wasting its energy. See what others have done in the general tactile thread.

After this you can place materials like Dynamatt at feet support areas or then use rubber castors to reduce the vibes and contact with the floor.


Here

For the floor itself, you could buy easimat floor tiles (like shown above) and beneath these have sound-deadening or soundproofing type mat. More layers will dampen more dB from the vibration or noise from harmonics or reverb.

All options to consider...

Thanks for the options to look into. Here is a photo of how I've got the BKG2 mounted to an adaptor plate attached to my rig frame. Will installing the rubber isolators under my seat to detach it still work? I'm just worried it creates a barrier to my rig and I don't feel the vibration as much because the only thing getting to the seat is the isolators.

 

[Mr Latte]

Yes thats a common approach.

It does nothing however to maintain vibes that go up into the seat are sustained better in the seat to then enter your body.
Currently, the vibes are free to travel over the whole rig going down and across with every connected object/path possible.

You need to place the seat on an isolation platfrom to decouple it from the main rig.
So you attach the unit direct to the seat, to ensure its energy directly goes into the seat first and its energy has to pass through the platform before it can go down.

You will see lots of people do this with just cheap rubber bobbin/isolators between the seat and the frame, some will use steel/alu plates bolted tot he seat and install the tactile to the plates. Then on the underside of the plates incorporate the isolators and often these are cheapo and may be the only solution they use but in reality, they can only prevent so much energy from escaping below into the main frame of the rig and then into the floor the whole rig is in contact with.

The more/better you isolate the platform the seat is on then the more energy from the transducer is maintained in the seat which makes it more efficient as you feel it better and this means it can be driven less hard, which in turn lets it operate more composed too regards detailing.

 

[Dan Costa]

The thicker the better. The rig would "float" and be subject to tilt a little bit side-to-side if you rock your body sideways, but so does a real car.

The sound your wife complains thought, is your entire rig acting like a speaker. Easy fix, put the shakers directly on the seat and pedals, while isolating them from the Rig (no metal to metal).

 

[CRMS]

Thanks for the options to look into. Here is a photo of how I've got the BKG2 mounted to an adaptor plate attached to my rig frame. Will installing the rubber isolators under my seat to detach it still work? I'm just worried it creates a barrier to my rig and I don't feel the vibration as much because the only thing getting to the seat is the isolators.

Looks like your BKG2 is mounted to the seat subframe which in turn is through bolted to the rig frame - the bolts and wing nuts??. If you put rubber bobbins tween seat subframe and rig frame, the BKG2 vibes will stay in the seat. Which I assume is where you want them and not in the whole rig.
Which is what I did. The 4 bobbins below are between the seat subframe and rig frame. As the seat subframes are upside down "U" shape 16mm deep, most of the 20mm high bobbin is inside the "U", with just enough clearance to avoid fouling and noise shorts. Pick bobbins to suit the weight of you, the frames and the seat plus anything else you might be holding. Mine are approx 28kg per corner which is enough for me etc and then an allowance for dynamic loading.

The BKG2 is attached to the seat subframe.

 

[Mr Latte]

@CRMS this is a good example above for the seat BK installation.
Can I ask if you feel vibes in the pedals transmitting still from the seat?

If you would, can you do a water test or phone/tablet with vibration meter app on each side of the main rig to determine what Hz/vibes are still going beyond those small isolator bobbins.

 

[CRMS]

I feel the pedals through my feet. Not through seat.
Using phone app Vibrometer - double vibes through seat than rig frame.

 

[Mr Latte]

I feel the pedals through my feet. Not through seat.
Using phone app Vibrometer - double vibes through seat than rig frame.

Im confused by how you worded that...

What Im trying to clarify on your rig is if the tactile energy from the Seat/Buttkicker is also traveling to and can be mildly felt in feet/pedals region?

If approx 50% of the vibes from the seat is still in the frame that illustrates how little these bobbins manage to sustain the energy in the seat. Lots of people rely on these as a single solution.

The point of me highlighting this is that It would be possible to improve on that with some additional antivibration/isolation materials. Simply to further reduce the energy leaking past the isolators keeping it better within the seat.

 

[CRMS]

>What Im trying to clarify on your rig is if the tactile energy from the Seat/Buttkicker is also traveling to and can be mildly felt in feet/pedals region?
Yes, a little.

>The point of me highlighting this is that It would be possible to improve on that with some additional antivibration/isolation materials. Simply to further reduce the energy leaking past the isolators keeping it better within the seat.

Yes. But unless you are an NVH engineer or have a friend who is, then quite a task and probably costly. You could put taller, softer bushes - but then sheer under braking could be an issue.
Something like submarine air compressor mounting bushes might be good, and they will be large and expensive!!

 

[Mr Latte]

Why would we need an NVH engineer or why would such be quite a task or indeed too costly?

This is a common problem as is the common solution like you used and many others have too. Yet even with your BK Gamer, it is rather inadequate which your own tests showed, hence why I asked you to do the test in the first place. As I knew still quite a bit of energy would be going beyond the isolators.

For isolation multi-layer approaches work best as each substance/solution used will further reduce the dB of the vibration and different materials can have specific benefits for different frequencies.

There are many options and companies that offer solutions in this area, we don't necessarily need to spend a small fortune. Professional materials/solutions used in commercial or industrial applications will however cost a reasonable amount.

Example 1

Example 2

Example 3

Example 4