heusinkveld sprint vs ultimate

[MastaMarek]

So I was set on sprints but then ... the ultimates look amazing with hydraulic damper on clutch and throtlle. I'm kinna scared of that 140kg brake force though. My real life cars that I've raced. Mx5 cup car, m2comp, e30 cup and so on. I've never driven a GT3 or GT4 car in real life. So would I feel the difference between the ultimates and sprints? thx in advance for the input.

 

[blekenbleu]

Have you read these?

• Heusinkveld Sim Pedals Sprint Interview and First Impressions
• Heusinkveld Pedals: Ultimate or Sprint?

 

[RCHeliguy]

HE has changed their website and removed the text that used to suggest that everyone get Sprints unless they specifically needed the high kg brake loadcell. We've also just recently had reviews on the internet that are focusing on differentiating the feel of the hydraulics on the Ultimates and suggesting that they help to smooth out your inputs and keep the car more stable as a result.

Here is one of those articles that HE pointed too on their FB page.

Heusinkveld Sim Pedals Ultimate Review

Over the last few weeks I've been testing the Heusinkveld Ultimate sim racing pedals. Here's how I found them...

shop.gperformance.eu

These website changes and new reviews seem to coincide with the release a new control module for the Ultimates that will work with the Smart Control Software that the Sprints use. Existing Ultimate owners will be able to replace their existing control module. So a big thumbs up on that!!! They say they are still testing this control module on their FB page.

So it appears HE is giving the Ultimates some love after focusing on the Sprints for a while.

On Dec 30th, 2020 HE released a new 1.3.3 Smart Control release with new features, but so far it appears a lot of people are complaining about that the way it handles profiles and have gone back to the original release.

I'm going to download the 1.3.3 Smart Control release to check it out and see for myself.

Hopefully they will put new emphasis into the Smart Control since all their pedals will soon support it.

On thing that HE also said was that the Sprints had better EMI shielding and could stand the vibrations from transducers better. I'm "guessing" that the new control module for the Ultimates will also have this. Of course I don't know if this improvement they mentioned was made in comparison to the Pros. For all I know the Ultimate Control module already had improved shielding etc.

 

[RickD]

Why not build your own, save money and get way better quality than Heusinkveld?
Or do you think Heusinkveld pedals can be build into a real race car and not break?
Don't think so, they are expensive toys.
You can build your own pedals using a real pedal box and transducers, it's easy.
You will get 140Kg brake pedal pressure with a 1.600psi transducer.

My DIY pedals

Finished my DIY pedals. Wilwood pedals, mastercylinder and slave cylinder. Transducers, 1.000psi break and 300psi clutch. Bodnar 12-Bit BU0836A board, Throttle P261P-D1BS3CB10K, several 3D printed parts. Laser cut custom steel plates, extra throttle 3mm piano wire spring. Excellent break pedal...

www.racedepartment.com

 

[RCHeliguy]

Different strokes for different folks! Not my cup of tea, but more power to you!

I love building things, but I wouldn't want a 3rd party hydraulic solution, never mind a DIY version like that. If my sim rig were directly over concrete instead of carpeting, I might not feel as strongly.

Then you have huge differences in adjustability for a sim rig that you don't have in a real car.

But once again, if this is your cup of tea, enjoy it!

 

[RCHeliguy]

Comparing the Ultimates to the Sprints in another way, the Ultimates have a much longer footprint (almost twice as long) and only have half of the adjustability in terms of angle. 15 degrees vs 30 degrees.

As someone who has my Sprints inverted and using all 30 degrees on 2 of my pedals, I would have to engineer another solution to handle Ultimates if I ever went that route. I'm sure I could figure something out, but it wouldn't be plug and play.

 

[Enzo Fazzi]

HE has changed their website and removed the text that used to suggest that everyone get Sprints unless they specifically needed the high kg brake loadcell.

Did we? It's still in the pedal selection guide.

So it appears HE is giving the Ultimates some love after focusing on the Sprints for a while.

In the last 18 months or so we actually made lots of small changes to the Ultimate pedals.

On thing that HE also said was that the Sprints had better EMI shielding and could stand the vibrations from transducers better. I'm "guessing" that the new control module for the Ultimates will also have this. Of course I don't know if this improvement they mentioned was made in comparison to the Pros. For all I know the Ultimate Control module already had improved shielding etc.

Yes, the new controller for the Ultimate pedals will have the same certification related to EMI shielding as the Sprint pedals. This is also a reason why it is taking longer than a lot of people seem to expect. The current controller for the Ultimate pedals is the same as the one that was last used on the Pro pedals.

but so far it appears a lot of people are complaining about that the way it handles profiles and have gone back to the original release.

This one really surprised me, the way to load and save profiles hasn't changed at all, it was just moved to a different tab. So yes, it takes one more click, but the basic principle is still the same. Of course, it is still feedback we take to heart and we will have another look at it.

And then to answer the original question from the thread, please have a look at these too:

Pedal Selection Guide • Heusinkveld® simracing products

Heusinkveld® pedal selection guide based on use case will help you determine which of our pedal sets is most suitable for you.

heusinkveld.com

 

[RCHeliguy]

In the last 18 months or so we actually made lots of small changes to the Ultimate pedals.

Yes, the new controller for the Ultimate pedals will have the same certification related to EMI shielding as the Sprint pedals. This is also a reason why it is taking longer than a lot of people seem to expect. The current controller for the Ultimate pedals is the same as the one that was last used on the Pro pedals.

Very good. I guess that means people with Pro pedals will be able to use the new updated controller too.

Any chance you can talk about those lots of little changes?

I'm very curious as someone who may consider upgrading my Sprints.

I heard a guy mention that the hydraulic dampers can squeak and squeal and was told by HE that was normal.

 

[RickD]

Then you have huge differences in adjustability for a sim rig that you don't have in a real car.

Interested to hear more about that, personally I'm into sim racing for 24 years and have no clue what you mean.
I also race a prepared BRZ at the Nordschleife.

 

[RCHeliguy]

Interested to hear more about that, personally I'm into sim racing for 24 years and have no clue what you mean.
I also race a prepared BRZ at the Nordschleife.

Really? You've not seen HUGE differences in seating positions on different rigs?

I know that personally I could never get a throttle on the floor to work well for me in my sim, my heel would slide/stick and wouldn't be as smooth.

I needed to invert the pedal to get it to work right for me. I eventually inverted them all.

I personally used a LOT of different resistance settings, pedal angles, travel etc.. Just to get things to feel right. I know other people who have spent quite a bit of time to get their pedals right. It doesn't matter if you are using the real pedals that go in a real car. I doesn't mean that they will work well in a sim.

 

[RickD]

Really? You've not seen HUGE differences in seating positions on different rigs?

I hear you, after multiple setups myself I know what you mean.
Although I never sought comfort and always wanted to simulate my experiences with real racing cars.
If you cut a corner in my simulator, you better have a good healthy back or it will hurt big time.
Your argument that you need different adjustments in a sim, I still don't see it because all the points you make can also apply to a real car pedal set.

I understand your fear of getting brake fluid on your carpet, but that will not happen if you don't mess up your DIY )

 

[Kieran527]

I understand your fear of getting brake fluid on your carpet, but that will not happen if you don't mess up your DIY )

Because unforeseen failures never happen with pressurised systems!

And race cars never have brake line failures, ever!
Or fluid reservoirs never weep!

 

[RCHeliguy]

Because unforeseen failures never happen with pressurised systems!

And race cars never have brake line failures, ever!
Or fluid reservoirs never weep!

I've heard a number of complaints from people with HPP hydraulic brakes that had leaks, so I know it happens even with high end brake systems.

I think I'll probably stick with my Sprints anyway. It took me quite a while to get them dialed in where I like them for comfort and consistency and I think I should just use them and not worry about more upgrades to my rig.

 

[Deleted member 197115]

Unless pedals configuration is completely out of whack, comfort is what comes with time when you get used to them. Just like in typical street car. New one always feels off.

 

[RickD]

Because unforeseen failures never happen with pressurised systems!

And race cars never have brake line failures, ever!
Or fluid reservoirs never weep!

Hahaha....well, it happens, of course.
As a car and motorcycle guy for over 40 years (yes, I'm old) I NEVER had a brake failure of any kind.
Maybe my sim will be the first

 

[RCHeliguy]

Hahaha....well, it happens, of course.
As a car and motorcycle guy for over 40 years (yes, I'm old) I NEVER had a brake failure of any kind.
Maybe my sim will be the first

Unfortunately that's anecdotal. My F150 blew a brake line leaving me without brakes. It was well cared for too. I even had slotted cryogenically tempered rotors installed. They were a great upgrade since it was a tow vehicle for my ski boat.

Anyway, different people will have different experiences.

 

[blekenbleu]

I NEVER had a brake failure of any kind.

I recall four:

1. rusted-thru brake lines on a rust-belt 1968 3/4 ton pickup (twice)
2. following (too closely) a semi in my V12 E-type, a large piece of masonry suddenly appeared from beneath it. Traffic in the other lane; missed block with wheels, but it tore a brake line and bent a torsion rod arm. Drove home from Virginia to North Carolina with no brakes. A V12 with manual transmission can lose, as well as gain, speed fairly quickly..
3. after a track session at Sebring, rear brake pad simply crumbled while slowly reversing. Made me a believer in better rear brake ventilation - upgraded to Boxster S.

Running a foreign car garage, I replaced plenty of tired brake hoses ready to fail. Braided lines on street vehicles seemed particularly failure-prone. Of course, plenty of leaky brake master and slave cylinders needed replacing, particularly on British cars with natural rubber seals and bad fluid.

 

[stigs2cousin]

I have experienced plenty brake failures on the job, blown master cylinders, blown brake lines,
badly mounted new lines leaking, brake caliper cracked and so on.

Almost everything was due to bad workmanship and old age or maltreatment.
Even the ripped braided steel brake line was mounted wrong in a much to small radius.

All this can be avoided in a simpedal. And I have real life experience with car, motorcycle and MTB hydraulics.
But, failure is possible.

As I like the KISS principle ( Keep It Simple, Sonny ;-) ) I ask myself the question if hydraulics are necessarey to get the feel right.
I like the Heusinkveld aproach with the hydraulic dampers and am researching how to adapt that to my Frankenstein pedals.

So, no (sim) hydraulics in MY living room.

MFG Carsten

 

[Deleted member 197115]

Anyone had HE Ultimate hydraulic dampers leaking?
Just like brake lines and master cylinder, dampers leak in real cars, more often in fact.

 

[blekenbleu]

if hydraulics are necessarey to get the feel right

In various real cars, I cannot discern by feel hydraulic
from properly maintained cable or other mechanical clutch linkages.
So far as brakes, I am only consciously aware of hydraulic feel (damping)
when bleeding them. Lots of different brake feels based on caliper flex, disc runout,
fresh rubber seals retracting pistons, skewed pads, too much assist, etc,

Low resistance until pads begin to contact discs, then
increasing resistance with decreasing movement until pads fully contact discs,
then nearly no movement with increasing force, depending on calipers,
except subtle throbbing from discs' runout until lockup.
Nothing about that involves hydraulic damping feel, so far as my feet report.