Heusinkveld sprint rumble pedal mod

[RedBull48]

Hello all,

I have recently upgraded my rig from Fanatec V3 pedals to the wonderful Heusinkveld sprints. I must say I am extremely happy with the upgrade, the only feature that I found myself missing was the integrated rumble motors that were included on the V3 pedal and brake. I was a huge fan of this functionality for detecting brake lockups and wheel slip. I then recalled seeing AMstudio (youtube channel dedicated to sim racing mods) create a rumble mod for a set of G920 pedals. I figured this same technique could be used for my new HE pedals. I have just finished setting everything up and I am extremely happy with how it turned out. I figured I would share my experience with the community for anyone interested in doing the same.

Credit: AMstudio (I highly recommend checking out his channel if you have not heard of him. Plenty of great ideas!)
Video where I got the idea: G920 Rumble Pedals

I have recently started working with Fusion360 to make small one off part mods for my sim rig. This was my first venture into making an entire project box and all related mounting hardware for this project. I ended up using the following hardware / software.

- 2 x xbox 360 rumble motors (Removed from old controllers I had).
- 22awg wire of various color for easy identification.
- 1 x Arduino UNO R3.
- 1 x Arduino motor shield v2.
- DC Power Female Socket with Lock Washer.
- 12v AC power cable.
- Soldering iron.
- Various lengths and sizes of heat shrink.
- Heat gun.
- USB A cable.

After I had everything wired and mounted to my satisfaction I used the built in Arduino tool within Simhub to write a sketch. I then proceed to setup the same shakeit profile that I had used previously with my Fanatec V3's. So far everything is working great. Curious to see if anyone has completed a similar mod, previously I had seen use of speakers to achieve what I assume is a similar response. I decided to go this route however as I had a lot of the hardware and all said and done cost me about $50/usd. Thanks for any feedback! Please keep in mind this is my first full 3d model / print implementation so I understand it's not perfect .

 

[Muzmcwill]

Fantastic, thanks for sharing the files. I'll hopefully have time to get it done in the next week or two. I'll update the post with the results.
Thanks again, much appreciated.

 

[Death_Magnetic]

great post .. and maybe this has been asked already: "does it work with iRacing?"

 

[worms14]

I have a problem.
I ordered the Dayton Audio DAEX32EP-4 / 32mm / Exciter / 40W / 4 Ohm, but I have been waiting a long time and resign from this order.
Can I use a different Exciter instead, which one to choose, and maybe there is something better?
-Dayton Audio DAEX30HESF-4 - audio inductor 30mm - 40W, 4Ohm
-Dayton Audio DAEX25FHE-4 - audio inductor 25mm - 24W, 4Ohm
-Dayton Audio TT25 PUCK Mini Bass Shaker
I am going to use the brake pedal and the gas.

 

[stigs2cousin]

The most knowledgeable ( that i know of) should be @blekenbleu who made a compsrison even with measurements.

Have a look here:

Dayton Audio DAEX32EP thruster vs TT25 puck

Has anyone compared these for the same application? Despite quite different specifications, they do not seem to feel (or sound) tremendously different. The puck's response is specified from 20-80Hz, but is clearly audible above 800Hz. Meanwhile, the thruster's resonance is specified as 395Hz...

www.racedepartment.com

Unfortunately I can´t be of more help as I got the DAEX32EP-4 when ordered and havn´t tried anything else.

MFG Carsten

 

[blekenbleu]

Here is a comparison including the DAEX25FHE:

Hello, after reading about everyone’s tactile setups (a big thank you to Mr Latte and everyone else for sharing), I thought I’d share where I’m at with mine. I also grabbed an assortment of Dayton exciters and will offer my initial thoughts on those.

First, the exciters. I’ve attached a couple comparison shots so you can get an idea of the width and thickness of these, ranging from the tiny 9mm models to the 32mm models. They are roughly ordered left-to-right in terms of my subjective preference (looking for a mix of vibration strength / response curve below 100Hz, small form factor, low heat buildup, and low audible noise), with my favorites on the right.

View attachment 309173
View attachment 309174

I found the <10W models to be suitable for direct skin contact, such as haptic touch, but not able to transmit vibration through any objects. In the 20-40W range, there are a variety of models, some of which I ruled out after quick testing either because the vibration felt weak or they produced substantial crackling noises. My favorites in this category were the DAEX32U-4 and DAEX25FHE-4, so I’ll describe those.

They’re a little smaller and slimmer than the Dayton Puck, and quieter (these two models produce less of the “crackling loose speaker wires” noise). The DAEX32U-4 has very strong output compared to the other models (think 2x stronger). It also runs very hot under sustained load, which makes me worry about using it for a constant RPM effect unless the power is kept low and multiple units are paired up. I suspect the DAEX25FHE-4 (and some of the other vented, metal shell) models can dissipate heat better, though have weaker output.

They need room to oscillate - if you stick these under a seat cushion, you’ll feel nothing, because they are unable to move (as opposed to the Dayton Puck, which has a shell it can move inside). Ideally, they also should be attached to a surface with some flex that they can resonate, because they are a bit lacking in mass compared to a Puck or Buttkicker piston - if you attach them to a very solid object (I tried directly to each pedal, my shifter, and my handbrake), the effect will be weak, at best like an Xbox or Fanatec rumble motor, at worst only a mild tingle that gets lost among other effects.

Attached to the back of my seat, I can feel them, though I’d say you need a pair for the effect to be strong enough to notice when not run in isolation. They seem great for this mounting location, but I’m disappointed that they underperformed when attached to solid objects or placed under seat cushions.

How about the Dayton Puck, for comparison? Well, the Puck has an annoying crackling noise, which makes placing it within two feet and using without headphones a bit of a problem, unless you keep the power level fairly low. I have three pucks mounted to my three pedals, and at that distance the noise isn't terrible, but I do make a point of not emitting signal to them if I'm not actively pressing the pedals. I have four under my seat cushions, but I have the volume turned down on these, which keeps the noise (and vibration) to an acceptable level.

The Puck’s greater moving mass and hard shell are more suitable for where I want it mounted than the exciters. The Puck’s frequency response range is narrower than the exciters, and it has a very strong peak (a less flat curve), which means you need to tailor your effects to its strengths a bit. It is also prone to bottoming out, which makes a grinding sound - I actually like this for my brake pedal, so I intentionally bottom that one out, but it’s a balancing act to keep the others from doing this while still being strong enough. Which is stronger, between the Puck and exciters? It depends on where and how you mount them.

As for driving them, I tried the Nobsound, but for my particular setup, I like an amp that automatically powers on when I turn on my power strip, so I can turn all my amps on/off together. The Nobsound doesn’t remember its last state. I found the Dayton DTA-1 to be powerful enough even for the 40w exciters (too much sustained power, e.g. a loud RPM effect, and they start to burn up, anyway), as well as for the 8-ohm Dayton Pucks, and it has a physical power switch.

My current setup:

4x LFEs, one at each corner. Suspension and wheel slip. The front ones are each mounted on a separate piece of wood extending out from my pedal plate. The rear ones are each mounted on a separate piece of wood sandwiched between my seat mount and the chassis sliding rail, extending outward.

3x Dayton Pucks, one per pedal:
Clutch - RPM, when pressed
Brake - slip (front combined R/L as mono), muted when brake isn’t pressed (this fires when you lose front traction, ABS kicks in, wheels lock, etc.)
Gas - RPM w/ shift indicator filter (it ramps in as you get close to redline), when pressed. This one is attached with 3M VHB tape, seems to be good so far.

1x LFE and 1x Clark 239 under the seat. The LFE runs wind (low-frequency rumble at high speed), gear shift, and RPM low-frequency when the car isn’t moving (I don’t like a constant RPM at speed). The Clark runs high-frequency RPM, again when the car isn’t moving.

4x Dayton Pucks, two under my butt cushion, two under my shoulder cushion. The butt rumblers run stereo rear L/R wheel slip, and the shoulders run RPM w/ shift indicator filter.

I'm currently using an SB Omni for my extra audio channels, but it has a tendency to disappear or stop working when my computer reboots or wakes from sleep, so I'll switch to a PCIe audio card soon.

View attachment 309175
View attachment 309176
View attachment 309177
View attachment 309178

What I’m thinking about changing:

I don’t like the Clark under the seat for RPM - if I enable it while the car is under motion, it makes it harder to distinguish the rear left/right suspension and slip effects. I may move it to the seatback, and have a filter so that it is active either when the car isn’t moving, or when moving and you approach redline (I don’t like a constant, strong vibration).

I’m switching to a GS-5 seat soon. I’d like to re-evaluate the seat cushion rumblers at this point. The GS-5 has proper mounting points for the Dayton Pucks, which also look like they might be suitable for exciters (there looks to be enough clearance for them to oscillate under the plates). The butt rumblers running wheel slip feel unnecessary, though - they do a fine job in isolation, but I feel like my rear LFEs handle this effect a little better. I may also drop the shoulder pucks in favor of moving my (stronger) Clark to behind the seat and letting it handle the RPM shift indicator effect instead.

That leaves me with room to mount under-cushion transducers, but nothing in particular that I’m wanting to run there yet. G-forces are interesting and I’d like to try this, though I’m unsure whether they will add to or detract from the GS-5’s own G-force effect. Something interesting to try would be routing surround sound audio to these.

I’d like something for my shifter and handbrake. I tried individual exciters on each, but they were unable to transmit vibration through these. Dayton Pucks on each would likely work, but the noise might drive me crazy. I’m now thinking a single, larger unit (mini LFE / mini concert / etc.) under the shared mounting platform they sit on. I’d also like to find a solution to know when I have my hand on either, so I can dynamically choose which set of effects to route to the shared unit - maybe a capacitive touch sensor (like the lamps that turn on when touched).

All of the tactile effects are generated by my own custom software. I write software for a living, so this is half the fun for me

 

[vannib]

Hi all,
Stumbled upon this thread by chance as I’m about to try install two Dayton pucks on the heuskenvilds.

I choose the pucks as they were “bass shakers”, what is the difference with “exciters”? I understood exciters are devices supposed to “create” music rather than low hertz rumbles.

did I miss something?

 

[Mr Latte]

The most knowledgeable ( that i know of) should be @blekenbleu who made a compsrison even with measurements.

Have a look here:

Dayton Audio DAEX32EP thruster vs TT25 puck

Has anyone compared these for the same application? Despite quite different specifications, they do not seem to feel (or sound) tremendously different. The puck's response is specified from 20-80Hz, but is clearly audible above 800Hz. Meanwhile, the thruster's resonance is specified as 395Hz...

www.racedepartment.com

Unfortunately I can´t be of more help as I got the DAEX32EP-4 when ordered and havn´t tried anything else.

MFG Carsten

Science Tests?
I can appreciate the work and effort put into it but didn't personally find anything from the readings/tests that were conducted to be of much use or that different from the general felt differences others/myself shared on certain models. Certainly, as far back as 2019, and possibly as the first person to introduce the usage of "exciters" being used with sim tactile.

I questioned such testing even before it commenced as to what it would achieve? Simply because of the official frequency charts the manufacturers already have. Which would have been conducted via professional measuring equipment/environment. While the more crude testbed/approach that was adopted wasn't exactly representative of most sim rigs neither.

The official charts, already show the output characteristics of each unit. We only have to compare the charts and feel the characteristics from 1-1 tests for a general representation of the output of each unit's abilities.

So that was one factor and why I thought from the very beginning the idea of trying to conduct such/measured tests had little new to offer? Also the readings are only a representation and will vary based on the surface material it is attached so looking too deep into the measurements is not going to be accurate in other people's installations.


Exciters Vs Transducers
Exciters are generally used to turn objects into speakers. For Simhub or sim-tactile usage, we use mainly their lower frequency output. Bass frequencies generally go up to 200-250Hz and often we see this with subwoofer crossovers.

Yet an exciter can act like a speaker going well into the sound spectrum of 20KHz. Because exciters can offer a much higher frequency range, this allows us to get finer and naturally generated harmonic detail that many transducers cannot achieve.

This is because very few transducers offer good performance above 80-100Hz. Some start to suck from 60Hz upwards. So exciters can bring something to our immersion that the common transducers cant produce. Additionally for installation, we can apply multiple small exciter units to the back of a seat to bring immersion aspects to specific body regions, that cannot be accomplished with traditional installations and by typical and larger transducers .

We can introduce multiple mono or stereo effects or spread an effect over more channels at once into a seat. I showcased this on these forums in 2019 and because Simhub at that time began offering ways to make use of additional channels which was always a limitation with other options like Simvibe.

Potential?
Keep in mind that transducers and budget ones, in particular, have very narrow frequency operating ranges. Often only a 50Hz range to work with. A common best usage range is (30Hz-80Hz). Transducers are not designed to turn objects into speakers but to generate vibrations applying bass-only frequencies. The problem with this limited range is that we are highly restricted in how we can make different effects have their own unique feel or character. This is why I worked on and developed a pro-level type installation approach that lets users achieve the full 1-200+ Hz bass range and from that, we can create much more realistic and improved variation in effects.

Using An Exciter As A Transducer
Firstly software like Simhub can be very demanding on audio hardware. A user can be silly with frequencies and gain levels. Exciters are not necessarily going to be as robust or reliable as transducers if we use them in this method. They were never created for this usage case scenario. They are not ideal when used solely in the role of a transducer, acting as a primary driver/unit for multiple effects operating at once.

They should be more considered to enhance tactile immersion, combined with transducers.
However in fairness as a budget option, when compared to the popular Dayton Puc they can outperform them if well configured.

Just be realistic in their size and potential but for pedals, they could probably also outperform small motors that have been popular.


Which Units?
Best units to consider, taking into account lots of people will overdrive tactile, using high soundcard gain levels or amp volumes. More low bass punch is generally people's perception as "better" when we should place more focus on "working range" the unit can output well.

DAEX 32EP-4 40W
Musically, I believe as tested in offering the best performance and overall recommended unit regards construction and specs. Also the most purchased unit by people that followed my own introduction of using these. Appears that stocks can sell fast from PartsExpress / SoundImports / Amazon.

DAEX32U-4 20W
Improved lower bass at cost of lesser higher detailing.
Only 20W, so it may run hotter and people will likely over-drive them to get the most from them. Questionable "long-term" what amount of abuse from Simhub they will take.

DAEX30HESF-4 40W
Still a good enough performing unit, some output character differences to the others.
Seems to be a unit people go for if no stock of 32U.


DSP Factor:
For each unit, to some degree, we can tweak their output character with Crossover/EQ using additional DSP. This to help tune them more to our preferences or usage scenarios. So science/measurements or using official chart data of each unit is not quite the full story.

This is often not even taken into account, in some discussions/comparisons and for some reason looking at recent posts in places. It appears some people assume or think DSP for tactile, is just useful for trying to extend low bass on BK units.

This is not correct, while the benefits can be great with BK in extending the low bass. It's not just about that but about tunning the units to suit the usage scenario you have for them and to suit your own installation. You may want to try to boost some frequencies while curtailing others to reduce reverberations but in general the benefits of DSP let the user alter/apply an output character for the unit that is more suited to their preference and installation.


Simhub Volumes As EQ:
You cannot try to use Simhub as a way to control individual frequencies, this is not how audio works. Additionally, the values we input for effects are not only what gets generated. The approved way to control individual frequencies amplitude/output is via "Parametric EQ" as even a standard "Dynamic EQ" with controls at fixed frequencies does not allow fine individual frequency control.


Buy / Try Yourselves
It is worth considering or comparing more than one unit if you are curious. These are cheap, nothing stopping people from doing their own comparisons or getting creative with installations. 40W units can be driven harder but still need care with soundcard and amp levels.


Simplified:
As exciters, some units offer slightly better low bass in that 30-40Hz range. However, others can benefit with stronger output for improved harmonic detailing that can add shine or more body-to-felt effects.

Many of you are looking to try to use "exciters" as individual devices like miniature "transducers". To some extent, they can offer a budget entry into tactile if used that way but this was never in my mind as the best usage case for these.

Usage Purpose?
Basically without trying to offer scientific measurements that are questionable anyways.
Someone using as a budget tactile device will likely prefer a unit with the improved lower bass output character. Yet someone using to incorporate with other units that already generate much better low bass anyways. They will use these "exciters" more but not always for mid-upper effect details (what they are better and more suited for).

Exciters can be given "effects layers" that are using harmonically matched frequencies to other effects layers using lower frequencies that go to Buttkickers. This approach of combining units to work together with specifically created effects layers is "more natural" to how audio works and what can help transform tactile immersion to a higher level from the perspective of how good effects can become. Simply because we can extend the dynamic range effects use and move beyond the old methods people adopted from Simvibe or other tactile software.

The simple reason is the best tactile, cant be achieved with any single make/model of unit. Yet the best immersion can be achieved if we combine specific units that have unique performance benefits and we then create more advanced effects that make use of these.

 

[blekenbleu]

I choose the pucks as they were “bass shakers”, what is the difference with “exciters”?

A bass shaker is a complete magnet structure + electromagnet coil + sprung mass,
with a largely predetermined (low) frequency response and resonance.

An exciter is a magnet structure + electromagnet coil + spring.
Its resonance is strongly affected by the mass to which it is attached.

• Attaching them to relatively low mass diaphragms which couple to air allows them to be deployed as alternatives to conventional loudspeakers.
• Attaching exciters to larger masses lowers their resonance, limited by magnet structures' mass.

 

[vannib]

A bass shaker is a complete magnet structure + electromagnet coil + sprung mass,
with a largely predetermined (low) frequency response and resonance.

An exciter is a magnet structure + electromagnet coil + spring.
Its resonance is strongly affected by the mass to which it is attached.

• Attaching them to relatively low mass diaphragms which couple to air allows them to be deployed as alternatives to conventional loudspeakers.
• Attaching exciters to larger masses lowers their resonance, limited by magnet structures' mass.

Ok, so let's say i want to attach them directly to the brake pedal and to the gas pedal with the objective to have tactile feedback when wheels are blocking during braking or slipping when pushing, which would be better?

 

[blekenbleu]

attach them directly to the brake pedal

Without having actually attached Dayton pucks to pedals, I expect them to be less effective in that application, while also inconvenient to attach. IMO pucks are best inserted in seat cushions/upholstery or otherwise acting as directly as possible on a driver's back and/or thighs.

Pressing very hard on a brake pedal reduces sensitivity to any pedal vibrations;
I burned out a DAEX32EP-4 while evaluating that.

 

[vannib]

Just an update.
Yesterday I had the chance to do a quick test of a Dayton puck attached directly to the brake pedal of my Sprints.

my objective is to have a better feeling of when abs and TC kick in.

the experiment was very successful imho, I can immediately and precisely feel abs kicking in and act consequently. I do expect this mod to actually improve my performance besides immersion (let’s forget about the fact that I need to shave seconds, not a few tenths…).

I expect the gas pedal to work even better as there’s much less pressure applied there.

all in all, looks to me like a relatively cheap and very useful upgrade.

 

[worms14]

Thank you very much for your willingness to help. If I understood correctly, the order of the selection should be like this, but I would prefer to make sure that I put together these Daytons properly:
1-DAEX 32EP-4 40W
2-DAEX30HESF-4 40W
3-DAEX32U-4
4-DAEX25FHE-4
5-Dayton Puck TT25

vannib, which model did you choose, do you ride in shoes, can you share some photos of mounting on pedals?
Thanks again for your help.

 

[vannib]

Hi there,
i tried with 2 pucks for the pedals, mainly chosen because of the very small dimensions.

You can see the pics attached, obviously i still have to clean the installation (wiring, etc). I've tested it for what i've wanted, which was having an indication of ABS and TC kicking in, and it works flawlessly and precisely. The Brake Pedal is setup with a pretty high maximum force load, if i remember correctly around 70-80% of the maximum possible load. Setup via SimVibe, obviously two separate channels. I do rigorously ride with shoes (racing shoes).
I only race ACC.

Since we're here and there reallt is a 200 hundreds page thread on tactile....anybody has suggestions on where and how to install 4 bass shakers to be placed on corners? I'm a bit lost on that.

 

[worms14]

Thanks for the pics, I ordered two Dayton Puck TT25s.
I wonder if the order will reach me this time and how I like their operation.
If you organize the wires, I'll be happy to see new photos.

 

[Ruttman98]

Hi there,
i tried with 2 pucks for the pedals, mainly chosen because of the very small dimensions.

You can see the pics attached, obviously i still have to clean the installation (wiring, etc). I've tested it for what i've wanted, which was having an indication of ABS and TC kicking in, and it works flawlessly and precisely. The Brake Pedal is setup with a pretty high maximum force load, if i remember correctly around 70-80% of the maximum possible load. Setup via SimVibe, obviously two separate channels. I do rigorously ride with shoes (racing shoes).
I only race ACC.

Since we're here and there reallt is a 200 hundreds page thread on tactile....anybody has suggestions on where and how to install 4 bass shakers to be placed on corners? I'm a bit lost on that.

The "four corners" shaker configuration seems intuitive but it is an inefficient application of energy. Stategic transducer and shaker placement is vital along with proper isolation of components. I urge you to take your time to learn from Mr. Latte and others who have put tremendous time, talent, and treasure in to the tactile sim feedback thread.

 

[blekenbleu]

The "four corners" shaker configuration seems intuitive but it is an inefficient application of energy.

Corner configuration works with 4 Dayton Puck TT25s in a seat cushion, acting directly on sit bones and thighs for useful feedback (but NOT immersion).

 

[super kermit]

So the pucks are better than vibration motors for the pedals then?

These are my pedals, now not sure which pucks to go for.

Dayton Audio TT25-8 Puck Tactile Transducer Mini Bass Shaker | eBay

Small puck design makes it easy to install. Compact design sizing in similar to an ice hockey puck. Force peak: 30 lbs. Note : This video is strictly for reference and illustration purposes only. Actual product design and/or inclusions may vary.

www.ebay.com.au

11.3€ 67% OFF|Douk audio Hi Fi Bluetooth 5.0 Digitale Versterker Stereo 2.0 Ch Mini TPA3116 High power Amp Draadloze Audio ontvanger DC12V|digital amplifier|amplifier stereostereo amplifier mini - AliExpress

Smarter Shopping, Better Living! Aliexpress.com

www.aliexpress.com

SR Titan Evo Pedal Set (PRE-ORDER NOV)

Complete your SIMRIG setup with the entry level SIMRIG Titan Pedal Set. Fully equipped with load cell control on all 3 pedals for most consistant driving experience.

www.simrigs.com

All 3 pedals are loadcell

Using simhub

 

[metalnwood]

So the pucks are better than vibration motors for the pedals then?

These are my pedals, now not sure which pucks to go for.

SR Titan Evo Pedal Set (PRE-ORDER NOV)

Complete your SIMRIG setup with the entry level SIMRIG Titan Pedal Set. Fully equipped with load cell control on all 3 pedals for most consistant driving experience.

www.simrigs.com

All 3 pedals are loadcell

I had tried the vibration motors on the pedals and took them off. I thought it was too one dimensional. I was going to do it with the pucks but they went out of stock at the time and never did it. Knowing what tactile feels like in other parts of the rig I can imagine that the pucks will be much much better than just the vibration motors which are very limited in their effects.

 

[super kermit]

1-DAEX 32EP-4 40W
2-DAEX30HESF-4 40W
3-DAEX32U-4
4-DAEX25FHE-4
5-Dayton Puck TT25

Which puks for pedals and for seats?

 

[worms14]

I completed my subject of vibration on the brake and accelerator pedal.
I admit that I am satisfied, it can probably be better, but for me this model is sufficient.
Now I have to find time to look for the effects that I want to set there. The plan is:
Brake pedal:
-ABS ACTIVE
-WHEELS LOCK
Gas pedal:
WHEELS SLIP
TC ACTIVE
I don't know if it's too much, but now it's just the time it takes.