Heel & toe, is it really necessary?

[Stelios]

Hello everybody!

I know this might not be the suitable forum but ill post here since my main tests were done in Assetto Corsa.

I have been simracing on and off for about 5 years. I never raced really seriously, just for fun.

Lately i have built my ricmotech RS-1 with the triple monitor add-on (pimp my ride i have lowered the monitors, which you cant see in those pictures). My rig has made me a lot (and i mean a LOT) more consistent, even though i sitll have a 23" monitor on my left (instead of the other 2 x27").

Previously i was using the flaps or the seq shifter of my g25, never the H shifter.
I decided to learn to use the H shifter, which felt very natural to me from the very start since its the same as my real car, and with that learn some heel and toe, and try to understand the benefits of doing it. Using iracing (mazda mx5) and the AC tech demo i really don't find a reason to heel and toe in every downshift as many people do these days. I mean, there are huge possibilities you screw the downshift and i am not sure that it benefits that much concerning the risk.
In certain situations, i agree its required, especially when braking hard and the car is not in a straight line, and you have to go from 4th to 2nd for example, but generally, i think heel & toe is overrated.

Or maybe not. Maybe someone can help me understand better why heel n toe is better.
My test was only 1 hour long and the cars were admittedly slow, maybe it is more useful on higher powered cars? I dont know. But downshifting manually, when the revs were at the appropriate level seemed to do the job fine.

Thanks for reading and sorry for my bad English!

 

[William Levesque]

 

[Stelios]

Thanks everyone for your comments, i would like to point out i have now realized why and when i must use it and to be honest now that i am used to it, its pretty fun to do too!

Give.Me.AC.

 

[Dimitris Kiriakou]

I don't want to start a new thread regarding heel and toe on assetto corsa so I will try to bring this thread in the surface after 4 years .

My problem is that downshifting using heel and toe, in assetto corsa, seems to have little to none effect in my driving (I used the AC Cobra, powerful Rear wheel car). I mean it's no shift lock at all when for example I downshifting from 4rd to 3rd gear in high rpm or even in lower gears. In rfactor2 driving the same car I can feel the shift lock almost in every downshift in high rpm. I don't know which is more realistic in this matter, assetto corsa or rfactor2, since I never drive a similar car in real life. But my point is that in assetto corsa I don't feel the need to use heel and toe to downshifting since it will not give any advantage to my driving.
Any thoughts?

 

[UMC 22]

Do you have auto-blip enabled in AC? It automatically blips the throttle while downshifting, eliminating the need for heal-and-toe.

 

[Glaurung]

I don't want to start a new thread regarding heel and toe on assetto corsa so I will try to bring this thread in the surface after 4 years .

My problem is that downshifting using heel and toe, in assetto corsa, seems to have little to none effect in my driving (I used the AC Cobra, powerful Rear wheel car). I mean it's no shift lock at all when for example I downshifting from 4rd to 3rd gear in high rpm or even in lower gears. In rfactor2 driving the same car I can feel the shift lock almost in every downshift in high rpm. I don't know which is more realistic in this matter, assetto corsa or rfactor2, since I never drive a similar car in real life. But my point is that in assetto corsa I don't feel the need to use heel and toe to downshifting since it will not give any advantage to my driving.
Any thoughts?

It depends how you perform it.
It would be useful a video with the pedal app enabled.
Personally I blip the gas always on downshifts, it gives the opportunity to be more aggressive with the steering input on corner entry.

 

[Yusuf Macit]

Hi everyone, seeing as how this thread is still alive, instead of creating new one i would like to ask my question to those who have a fair amount of technical knowledge unlike me. Please excuse my illiterateness about cars.

This is a question regarding the real life but i guess many things from IRL works in AC.

Would heel & toe be necessary in a FWD car and would the effects be the same as a RWD car?

 

[Opel-King]

Good question!
I have seen many onboards of the Astra-OPC-Cup at Nordschleife in VLN and 24h. Drivers like Volker Strycek, Tim Schrick ... nobody use heel & toe. So for a actual car with abs and electronic brakeforce distribution, it´s not necessary. I see only reason: Saving clutch.
A car without ABS, you can get overbraking at the front axle.
I'm doing it just for fun sometimes at my own car (Astra-J OPC, 2.0L, 280HP).

 

[Jim Liak]

I still can't do it...

 

[Glaurung]

Would heel & toe be necessary in a FWD car and would the effects be the same as a RWD car?

In FWD cars it's much less important than RWD.
Blipping the gas with in a FWD you can reduce the underesteer at corner entry. On the other side, you can live easily without gas blip slightly reducing the brake pedal input on front axle.

 

[Rob Every]

It is tough with some heel and pedal setups.

I find it pretty tough to heel and toe on a G25 pedal setup as the pedals are not quite right for it, possibly as when it was released very few games offered this type of driving simulation.

It is possible but a little difficult, and I have tried swapping the pedals around.

Most of the time I simply downchange using the clutch and right foot braking, which after years of left foot braking took some getting used to. Especially the pressure you use with the right foot on the brake.

But it is interesting that you quickly learn how to switch from left foot braking paddle setups, to a right foot brake H pattern with little difficulty after some time.

Have never liked heeling and toeing, and I think the best solution is probably a bespoke pedal setup, which for a casual gamer is not an option either financially or common sense wise!

 

[Brandon Wright]

I don't want to start a new thread regarding heel and toe on assetto corsa so I will try to bring this thread in the surface after 4 years .

My problem is that downshifting using heel and toe, in assetto corsa, seems to have little to none effect in my driving (I used the AC Cobra, powerful Rear wheel car). I mean it's no shift lock at all when for example I downshifting from 4rd to 3rd gear in high rpm or even in lower gears. In rfactor2 driving the same car I can feel the shift lock almost in every downshift in high rpm. I don't know which is more realistic in this matter, assetto corsa or rfactor2, since I never drive a similar car in real life. But my point is that in assetto corsa I don't feel the need to use heel and toe to downshifting since it will not give any advantage to my driving.
Any thoughts?

Really? I've found the exact opposite, it's impossible for me to drive with the h-gate on AC without having to heel/toe because the rears always spin up when I downshift. Weird.