Have you ever raced with RD?

[Nick Brooke]

Hi all,

I am looking at what we can do to get the Club events back on track so to speak and one thing is clear there is still plenty of interest in Race Series. What we do see however is smaller numbers in the Club events than in the past. A few people move on and new ones come so in order to see why numbers have decreased a little i have produced this poll to see whats happening.

please take time to post in it.

Nick

 

[Marco Bijl]

True Dennis, and you should be more then welcome indeed...

Having said that, I do think that, in line with the original thought of the topic starter, the idea behind this league was a step-in for people whom have no experience yet, and are a bit afraid. With 10000 laps, you do not seem afraid .

Because I do think that its a good thing that the experienced are present, I said prioritize, and not quallify. I DO think the presence of the seasond racers is essential to succes, but I also think that there should be a fair chance for the rookies.

Perhaps its an idea to say f.i. out of 24 drivers, the first 14 places will be awarded to players with no history in racing RD. The other 10 places could then be available to the ones who do have experience, but for whatever reason they have enjoy racing.

Basic line I was addressing is the ensurement that rookies have a place to start, supplemented by the experienced, or as you nicely said seasoned racers.

Just thinking out loud and trying to help

 

[Dennis Phelan]

I understand your points. I saw the drivers that wanted to join in the "driver development series" and some of them were the top league drivers!

You're right, I'm not "afraid", lol. It took me almost two years to not get flustered when someone came up on my rear bumper waiting for an opportunity to pass me. I'm afraid though, that I still have to get the experience in passing!

 

[Nick Brooke]

Dont worry guys i will ensure the newer players get a chance at this but also some more seasoned players too who think they need a little morte experience. i am one of them in some ways trust me. I want to get it off the ground soon so keep the thoughts coming guys

 

[Szymon Olizarowicz]

I see there is a lot of issues to solve before such a league would even start. In any case - count me in. For me the most important is to give the choice of different cars and classes every season (let's NOT make a RDTCC for noobs but also include other classes) and focus on Race 07/Evo/Race On without expansions like GT Power or Retro.

BTW: I just got another idea. Since this would be an 'amateur' league it would be nice to organise an amateur season with e.g. production version of Audi R8 or Dodge Viper. All this without upgraded engines and sponsor labels.

 

[Dennis Phelan]

No skinning required, I second that!

 

[Szymon Olizarowicz]

Actually I did not think about the skinning. Though it would be nice if the noob league did not force people to skin their cars. Uploading and downloading unique skins seems to me a bit annoying since the ones provided in the game are good.

 

[Nick Brooke]

There would be no skins if you did not wish to use them. If you do fine if not fine. It would be as simple as possible the idea is to bring new players in not alienate them

 

[Szymon Olizarowicz]

Good, good, goood.

Another thing to consider - race time. At the moment I feel that GT and TCC leagues are very demanding in terms of drivers' endurance. If I remember one race is 75min. long. In case of sprints you do two sprints each 35min. long. Apart from time organisation (not a problem for me but others may not have that much time) this seems to be very demanding in terms of your physical condition. Turning the steering wheel for that long is a bit too much for me. Personally I would prefer that one whole event lasts 35min.

Say:
Practise 1/server open whole day for practise like in case of other leagues
Qualification 1 /15min
Qualification 2 /15min (only 10 best drivers from Q1).
Race /35min.

Obviously I am open to other suggestions. Even those that are more demanding but I feel it can get a bit too tough for some newcomers (myself included).

 

[Dennis Phelan]

I don't think there's any way to have a Q2 session. It's not really a biggie, especially if the grid gets reversed for R2, that's pretty normal.

 

[Szymon Olizarowicz]

What do you mean by R2? A second race? Is one not enough for one event?

 

[Dennis Phelan]

There are times that I think the usual, two twentyfive minute races, are too long for a week night race when the official practice starts at 2100 local time. I always make it thru easily, although on some nights I might be tired by the end and certainly if I had any beers with dinner. I also love it whenever I can catch a 80, 90 minute rce or a 500k event but not at 9pm.

For me, one 25 minute minute race brings up hope that in R2 I can get the tires to last a bit longer, use the new lines I've just found and hold off the crowd behind me[inverted grid, right] for just a little bit longer.

 

[Rupe Wilson]

A 2 race format encourages racers to stick around if race one goes south in the first couple of corners,
If you make a mistake, you get the chance to redeem yourself in race 2, and also show other drivers it was just a mistake.
If in race 1 you follow other cars and get faster laps in race2 you will be more confident.

What is more important is that we understand race etiquette, how to leave the pits safely and on your outlap make sure you get out of the way of people on there fast laps, making a good start, (dont sit in the pits till the clock runs down to zero, Bad spotsmanship, if you ask me). Leaning how to keep out of trouble in the first couple of corners, Learning when to give in and tuck behind,

This kind of stuff is more important than the actual race,

If you make contact with another car make sure you stop and wait , even if you think it wasnt your fault, youl be making freinds this way, because later on when your looking at replays it looks like a 50/50 inceident or worse, you was glad you stopped..
Keep within the track limits, just beause the car in front is (making the most of the open spaces), still drive correctly.. the list is endless....

 

[Szymon Olizarowicz]

So by R2 you mean the second race, right?

I would definitely NOT want to have to races at one time. One day = one race. Combined with 35min races it should work well. If I have to do two races at one night (even 25min. long) then I guess I'm out.

As for the second qualification - I really think it's a good idea. Say you have Q1, where there are 25 drivers fighting for the best position. Then 10 best drivers from Q1 move to Q2 where they can compete with each other for pole position while not being interrupted by slower drivers. It is especially important as the league will attract less experienced drivers, who may affect times of the faster ones. A bit like in F1 races but with two qualifying sessions instead of three. Three qualifying sessions would elongate the event too much.

I suggest that we all just write up a shedule for an event so that we know what each of us expects. For me this is:

Practise 1/server open whole day for practise like in case of other leagues
Qualification 1 /15min
Qualification 2 /15min (only 10 best drivers from Q1).
Race /35min.

There is only one race in my proposal. Doing two races is very demanding and I don't think it's good for a starter. I much rather the F1 alike approach one day = one race. In this case it would be, of course, one night = one race.


EDIT
@up

A 2 race format encourages racers to stick around if race one goes south in the first couple of corners,

It's more personal. For me if one race goes crap then I am really discouraged to take part in the second. Also two race format is very demanding in organisation. Not everyone can afford to take part in two 25min races instead of one but a bit longer. Like I said am voting for one race instead of two. Though I think the number of votes should be compared before making any decision.

 

[Dennis Phelan]

I haven't found any provision for two qualifying sessions in the sim. There's usually plenty of track available for everyone during a session and an option that should suit you, everyone has 15 minutes to qualify, they get an out lap, a flying lap and an in lap. Only the one flying lap counts for the time, it's called Superpole. It's a short session and while everyone is ontrack at the same time, no one can see or affect any of the other cars and no on gets to see qualifying times until they've posted a time. There's something to find and dislike in everything, I'm sure you're not happy with the idea of superpole as it's not what you suggested.

New drivers going on to race in regular events and league races might like to see the same format that will be used, RD uses the same ones that are found in many of the other "clubs", "it is" as they say, "in the game"!

I have a race coming up, join us if you can, practice in 9 minutes.

 

[Szymon Olizarowicz]

Unfortunately I will now go to bed but I appreciate the invitation. Thanks.

As for the superpole - it's fine with me. I prefer the option I suggested as it's more 'real' when you can see other drivers and you're able to interact with them during the qualifying sessions. Superpole seems to not allow that but it's still a good solution. And the argument about superpole qualification used in professional leagues is very good.

I just thought of another thing - realism settings. We're gonna have to decide what settings to use e.g. automatic gears, ABS etc. At the moment though I would like to settle down with the event schedule. It seems like people have different ideas about the length of the race and how many races should occur during one day. Taking into account what you said about superpole I modfied my suggestion to:

Practise 1/server open whole day for practise like in case of other leagues
Superpole Qualification/15min.
Race /35min.

Again I prefer one race instead of two. This way the whole event would occur for about an hour. Easy to join and participate and does not demand high endurance from drivers. For now we need to find out what other people think. I suggest that you write up a typical event schedule in a similar manner. That way it will be easier to read through the thread and compare different suggestions rather than reading every sentence in every post. In the example above people would only need to read the bolded bit to find out what I think. Hope you like the idea if not feel free to write up your suggested schedule in any way you want.

 

[Dennis Phelan]

Realism settings, if this is to prepare drivers for regular races, why wait to operate at the club and league settings? The quicker drivers get out of the habit of using, relying on aids, the sooner they get faster and they won't be messing up in the "real" races, looking like noobs in cars they can't drive. I've never heard anyone mention that after getting rid of the crutches that they got slower or were a worse driver than before. It might take time for some but the result will be the same.

 

[Marco Bijl]

1 or 2 races don't make a difference to me. Sometimes I am very anctious to start the second race if something went wrong in the first, but sometimes I need a sigarete to calm down

Either way, I always enjoy the second race again, so I don't mind. 1 longer, or 2 shorter ones.

In terms of realism.
It's a rookie league, not a newbie event. I mean, the original thought was a step in class for the "bigger" leagues. In those leagues, no assists are allowed, so if you allow it here, then you need a second league to get used to no assists and manual gearboxes.

Besides that, it's still sim racing, and no arcade racing. At least thats what I would like to see.

With quallies I dont mind either. Superpole is fun and exciting, but a regular qually is nice as well.
A Q1 and Q2 session wouldnt be my choice, because that requires more discipline from the drivers, since the practice session has to be used for Q1. The top 10 are allowed to leave the garage in real qually, which is Q2. Easy to make a mistake, especially for rookies. Could be a risk.
Second reason why I would not choose that, is a side effect which occurs. The fastest drivers will be in front rows, while a mixup of the field makes it more exciting. Forces people to be carefull the first corners, which is a good training for the next step.

I really think that the best way to get this of the ground, is to make sure that it's not to far away from the other leagues on RD. In fact, the only thing that should be different in my opinion is the perception of the racers.
Please be a bit more patient when something happens. It did not happen on purpose, we are learning.

That said,

I DO think that a person who races with the league and keeps on making un-needed accidents, should be addressed. Not punished, but addressed. So offer some help, arrange a one on one session with the person to train, stuff like that. That way, it becomes a school for the leagues, with still a reasonable level of clean racing and fun.

But thats my opinion offcourse

 

[Szymon Olizarowicz]

Then the realism settings are sorted - all helps turned off. I'm alright with that. Maybe in the first season we should use 80%-90% damage? The difference is not huge as serious crashes would still end the race but small mistakes would be forgiven. It is not like in pro leagues and may develop bad habitats but racing would not be that frustrating at least at the beginning of the season when newbies like me are likely to make mistakes (not necessarily crashes but smaller mistakes). What you think bout that?

Superpole qualification is probably the best idea so I'm with you guys (at least for now it seems desired more than Q1 and Q2).

Any other ideas?

 

[Dennis Phelan]

I would hope that anyone here in the forum, reading this thread and has thoughts of racing within the club has already accrued a bit of time on track in the public servers. You installed the online version so you could do that right[?] and there are plenty of car track combo's to try so you can just about pick those within your comfort zone or desires without joining any club.

RD puts servers up for the upcoming races a good amount of time ahead of the event. The session is set at P1 and gets changed to P2 at the time official practice starts. The same rules apply at that time as anytime in an RD event, drive clean and good sportsmanship. The track is open to any licensed member, whether signed up for the event, thinking about or hoping to be able to make the event and to any licensed member should he want to go drive that track. Once P2 begins a moderator may decide to allow only those registered to remain and drive in the session, usually if he is expecting a full grid and drivers showing for a long practice. many times you can stay in right up to qualifying, even stay for the race if you have not signed up for it!

What that does is allow you in P1, to drive a car, set it up and be ontrack alone, usually! As it shifts to P2 you'll be driving with those that will be in the race and can compare your laptimes. Stick it out, don't run off but try to enter the track for a few laps when there is an opening, and there are usually many! OK, here's a good tip: While in a session, select "drive" but don't go anywhere, leave it in neutral. Press the "+" key on your numberpad and your screen will be changes to show the driver one place faster than you are, just keep going till you find one ontrack! You can see his lines accurately, get a feel for his brake points, chassis movement and even watch his tach and gear indicator! Then go back and look at your car in the garage and go ontrack! If you pick a race that has a good number of entries, I think you'll be amazed at how good you're actually doing. It will be tougher in an event with few entries as there's just not much to compare with.

One thing that has been mentioned in the past and should be brought up again is TeamSpeak, it's a great help. there's nothing like talking to a person! It was very popular before the club rearranged the racing line up but it's use as a tool is only diminished because no one is using it.

Thanks, for listening.

 

[Szymon Olizarowicz]

@up - thank very very much for advice! I will definitely try to do as you say. At the moment I have new internet connection that is not stable so I can't really race with anyone. As soon as I sort these problems out I hope to be on track.

I wonder if we should start thinking about the class that will be available in the first season. I personally like GT classes but maybe we should pick a class that is not available in pro leagues? There are no open wheelers, radicals, minis, catherhams or production cars. This may be an opportunity to create a league using these cars. I would love to see a fight of 24 Audi R8s.