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Hardwear help, please

kramard

1RPM
May 12, 2017
7
9
35
Hi All,

Looking to get pointed in the right direction on where to research for upgrading my wheels and pedals. I feel like I'm a consistently fast driver but I feel like I'm reaching the "limits" of my setup.

I've run a G27 wheel / pedals and when I compare my lap times to some of the fastest folks out there I tend to be 2 - 3 seconds off; it seems to be happening under braking and releasing the brakes for rotation but ultimately I'm struggling to match pace.

It's important to note: I "know" how to go fast and look for speed but the speed at which some of these people are rotating cars are far exceeding the limits of my car. Studying youtube video, it looks like the brake release is much more controlled, consistent and not as noisey.

So - my question is what's next? My priority is speed; I can adapt to feel. I presume I should focus on pedals first? Would a Direct drive wheel make any sense? Lastly, is there anyway to tune the brake curve for my g27 other then what's available in game?

Appreciate the help in advance. I don't mean to suggest that I can be, or am an Alien but when I see folks rotating cars at substantially faster speeds and my car is unable to remotely match those limits then I begin to suspect equipment to a degree. Plus, new gear is always fun, right? :)
 

ThugUK

500RPM
Feb 27, 2015
660
474
51
I went from a G27 to a Fanatec V3 pedal set and AccuForce V2 DD wheel and guess what?
I don’t think I am any faster at all.
I do get a greater feel from my pedals and can trail brake a little better.
I’m also more constant at being ‘average’ but not necessarily faster though.

Skill, experience and practice will make you faster.

If I were you and wanting to upgrade something it would be the pedal set, to any load cell one, but don’t go into it thinking it will make you faster as it may not. No more than a new keyboard will make you better at the likes of Call Of Duty or Battlefield, or a new musical instrument will make you better at playing it.
 

The GT Formula

2000RPM
Premium
Aug 25, 2009
2,662
1,306
43
What he said
I went from G25 pedals to Fanatec CSR Elites and, initially anyway, I was slower...
Once I got used to them, I was the same....
I don't think hardware actually makes you faster, not by much anyway. It can help with immersion, and with immersion comes desire to practice, possibly more so with nicer kit than before. Just speaking from personal experience here. Sitting down with the G25 it felt a little like a toy, possibly due to the plastic construction, but when you were racing you didn't really care much.
Fast forward to Fanatec with metal construction, belt drive and powerful FFB with load cell pedals, you don't feel like you're playing any longer. Makes it feel more authentic.
Anyway, if I were to give a recommendation, it would be for Fanatec load cell pedals and their CSW V2.5 base and a formula rim. That would be an awesome upgrade to your current set up. I can't talk for DD wheels as I'm too scared to try them... due to knowing I'll love it and can't afford it, at least for the next 20+ years till the kids are grown up and thinking about flying the nest...;)
 
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anton_Chez

2000RPM
Jun 1, 2016
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If anything IS going to make you faster, I'd say it's the brake pedal. So echo the thoughts above and if you can stretch to a V3 pedal set or even the CSL load cell (there IS one isn't there?) then that would be the very first thing to go for. The brake pedal is fundamentally different in those pedal sets compared to the one in the Logitech pedals.
 
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ThugUK

500RPM
Feb 27, 2015
660
474
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Isn’t it funny how something designed to make you stop can make you quicker.
 

RasmusP

6000RPM
Premium
Oct 7, 2016
6,174
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When I moved from my g27 to the fanatec v2.5 and the 2 pedal csl elite set, it weren't the better pedals that made be brake better.
What made me brake better is that I could feels the impact of the weight shift to the front tyres.
Due to the higher fidelity and dynamic of the new wheel, I could feel the brake strength or throttle acceleration in my hands and feel the edge of the grip of the front tyres a lot better.

So I switched back to the g27 pedals to check if that was actually true and yes it was. I could feel the pedals in my hands.

Now a better or rather a loadcell brake pedal will give you a lot better and consistent muscle memory but the driving itself and the skill on how much brake to actually apply to get faster.
That's only done for me via the steering wheel!

My 2 cents on this.

It also depends in the skill you currently have.
A real life racer will benefit a lot more from a consistent and good loadcell pedal since he knows what to do and knows how the car's movement from the cockpit should look like.
He just needs a consistent and similar to reality brake feel.

I on the other hand only race in simulators. I have no idea how it is in reality braking down from 250 to 60 and do a twisted uphill hairpin (mugello T1).
So I benefit a lot more from actually feeling the grip limit. To feel when more brake input will make the front tyres understeer and scrub or to feel when I can give it a bit more before they are reaching the limit.
 

anton_Chez

2000RPM
Jun 1, 2016
2,023
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I actually agree with this too. I just did a race tonight at Daytona in AC, in the 911. The Porsche is VERY fussy under brakes and if you're not pointed completely straight when you apply full brake, she will let you know about it BADLY. So, what Rasmus says is absolutely true. You can adjust your brake pressure depending on what your front wheels are telling you once the brakes are applied. You can then modulate both the brake and steering input to get the desired result (aka not spin and crash). However, modulating the brake is SUPER hard without a load cell pedal, so it begs the question, which comes first? The brake, or the wheel base.

The clear answer is both at the same time, obviously. That's what I did when I went from G25 to all new Fanatec gear, so I didn't have to choose. I think I'd still get the pedals first, but if your budget can stretch the wheel base as well, then yes, both is a great way to getting increased feel and feedback from the car. It also depends on what sim you're driving, as some will feed better data and feeling back to the driver than others.
 
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kramard

1RPM
May 12, 2017
7
9
35
Thanks all. Few updates: I went with a ts-pc wheel and t3pa pro pedals. Some obvious improvements in some cases (especially street cars) in PCars2 but my gt3 setups are turned upside down. Average lap times are down 7/10th of a second to 1+ second but my “fastest” laps really haven’t been beaten but in a handful of cases.

I think I’ll return the t3pa and either do a load cell mod on my g27 pedals or buy the v3s to go with the ts-pc.

I priced out the fanatec v2.5 wheel and base and it’s so far beyond my price range. I got the ts-pc new for 399 and a sparco rally add on wheel for 160 so it’ll have to do for now.

The short answer is there is a much greater increase in car controlability then i previously had but I wasn’t expecting to see material lap time differences without moving to load cell pedals.

This experiment also tells me different physical setups absolutely influence how the cars respond in project cars. Overall a good experiment but a lot of tuning and pedal work to be completed.