Hard braking - g27 pedals

[Sean Kenney]

I have a g27. I have noticed that the AI can brake SO much better then I. In an actual race I either seem to ram cars hard or they ram me, depending on how I brake. Almost guaranteed the first turn of a race. I don't feel there is much more I can do race wise. I basically have to give up 4-5 spots bc I have to brake early to not ram someone, with the hope of not being rammed.

Take the Norisring, which has two 180 degree turns or so after a long straight away, I have been practicing on that, and can do pretty well, until you add in cars with me. I find the last turn much more difficult to brake into, maybe bc it is a decline?

In general, if I lock up, I go long, if I brake to soft, I go long. If I brake hard and do it right I stop too soon or lastly I do it all right I know some of this is practice, as I am still new, but I feel it is VERY difficult to hit that sweet brake spot and I have practiced a fair bit.

I turned the brake pedal sensitivity down to 20% and messed around with where it should be...seems around 20% to not lock up. I have the car brakes around 95%. How much should I mess with the bias?

Any tips? It is really an issue on first corners and I hate hitting people.

 

[shardshunt]

no tips this cant be fixed it's a ai issue due to simplified physics.
this is a trait shared by race 07 and gtr2 i believe. (but we could edit the ai files back then)

 

[William Wester]

no tips this cant be fixed it's a ai issue due to simplified physics.
this is a trait shared by race 07 and gtr2 i believe. (but we could edit the ai files back then)

I wouldn't make such a blanket statement, I don't have any braking problems in R3E.
@Ser_Renely, what pedals are you using? If you don't have either a load-cell or mod such as the conical (T3PA) or Basher (T500), some type of resistance adjustment, then braking can be hard to replicate time and time again if you must rely on pedal position alone.
The first corner in a race can be tough with cold brakes and the AI nose to tail but for the most part I don't find the AI being a problem. The first corner at Norisring at the start of a race is tougher than some of the other tracks.

 

[Sean Kenney]

Logitech g27, stock.

Ty

 

[James Nance]

A small tip I like to use is finding a way to put load on the inside tire. When you approach a corner for example the T1 hairpin at the Norisring, you approach from the far left side of the track, then as you approach the braking zone your kinda crossing over onto the right side of the track, thus putting load onto the left inside tire, allowing you to press harder and straighten your braking zone, so if you do lock up its not your inside but your right side tires but at this point your already making your turn in to the left turn hairpin, it works the same at Hockenheims hairpin, its something ive noticed over the years, F1, DTM, openwheelers, use this sort of technique. Hope it makes sense, maybe someone else can explain better.

 

[shardshunt]

I wouldn't make such a blanket statement, I don't have any braking problems in R3E.
@Ser_Renely, what pedals are you using? If you don't have either a load-cell or mod such as the conical (T3PA) or Basher (T500), some type of resistance adjustment, then braking can be hard to replicate time and time again if you must rely on pedal position alone.
The first corner in a race can be tough with cold brakes and the AI nose to tail but for the most part I don't find the AI being a problem. The first corner at Norisring at the start of a race is tougher than some of the other tracks.

Try it yourself sit directly behind a ai set to 120 and break at the same time as it.
you will run into it regardless of how much break pressure you use, if you had all four wheels on the verge of lockup they would still out break you it's how they are programmed.
dont get me wrong r3e has great ai (the best of any racing sim i have played) but it's just how it is

 

[Andi Goodwin]

not true , it depends on whether you have full tyre /brake temps , i can out brake ai even at 120% ; but at the start of the race isnt one of those times

Andi

 

[Emilio]

I agree with Andi. It's a matter of temperatures. First lap it's always a mess but after the second it braking becomes effective the way you'd expect. I think R3E braking system is quite challenging: it's no simple stuff... It needs to be carefully dosed. Like it!

 

[Sean Kenney]

Thanks guys.

I upped my brake to 100% in the car set-up and that seems to have helped a bit....not sure why I had it at 95 before...seemed right at the time, but now at a 100% I seem to get a bit better breaking.

I will see if I can continue to improve.

 

[luxtpm]

i drive the aquila with 50% bias, maximum brake force and maximum wing and never lock up even pressing the pedal fully(tyres at 90º of course)

 

[Fieldy]

I have a G27 wheel and fitted the GTEye mod to the brake pedal, made such a difference.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GTEYE-Bra...K_Controllers_Attachments&hash=item232ee25db2
£18 off ebay

 

[Connor Caple]

I never lock up the brakes in a real car because the pedal 'feel' is so much better than my G25, which I have to drive in socks so I can feel what it's doing.

In R3E I lock up all the time and, because I'm so worried about the car biting and throwing me off the track, I keep the wheel dead straight until I'm trail braking so I generally don't notice the feedback that would let me know it's gone 'loose' and I've locked up.

I think all I can do is increase tyre scrub or tyre squeal until I can hear them over the engine and try it that way, unless Andi has any better ideas.

I like the spring idea though. Nice touch and looks like a simple mod.

 

[maxel]

I find it also really hard to not lock the brakes with the gtr3 cars. Good old g25 here. If flatspots would be simulated by the game my race would be over after one lap. ^_^ Changing the bias to the rear helps a bit. And you have to release the brake when the car get's slower. I will also buy the GTeye brake mod soon, the only thing that can help with this problem and it's the only mod that doesn't make the brake stiffer so you don't have to hard mount the pedals.
There's a good review on youtube for everyone who's interested.

 

[Jyri Kettunen]

I use Nixim mod for the brake, and it is pretty good.

 

[Rella]

It is really an issue on first corners and I hate hitting people.

My tactic is to brake earlier in the first corners due to cold tyres and brakes but a lot of people behind me don't appreciate that very much. You need a few more metres in the first corners /or round. In general the G27 pedals need a lot of practice imho. Some years ago I had fanatec pedals with a loadcell and i had much more feeling for braking. But you get used to it also with G27 although I still lock up often when braking into corners. What could help is playing with the car setup and ffb. I would tend to reduce the braking force. With 100% you lock up very easily. Finding a nice setup for the suspension is a key, e.g. the Corvette was a difference like day and night. Regarding the ffb I think the understeer, vertical load, brake vibration and general ffb should help to get a better feeling for braking. All in all I think it's mainly practice what can help you to find the right spot when to release the brakes while slowing down and choosing the right line. Using the adaptive AI and I have no issues on the brakes.

 

[Le_Poilu]

The thing is to do a degressive braking.
You need to hit hard and quick the brake pedal, but release softly as you get slower.
At the braking point, when you hit the pedal you have downforce and weight transfer that prevent from lock up. But the slower you get the less brake you'll need otherwise you'll lock your wheels.

I felt the same as you about IA (later braking point, but shorter braking zone) while playing DTM 2014 championship. I found myself braking earlier than IA and still hitting the back of the IA in front of me.
But once I get to be more quick on the brake pedal with maximum load as quick as I can I was able to match IA.
But I have to say that I use a Fanatec CSP pedal set with load cell. It's easier to manage a degressive braking with a load cell.

When you start to find your breaking point you can manage the brake bias, adding rear brake to balance the brake force on all wheel and prevent front wheel lock up. 1 or 2% on the rear can make the difference, but careful is you have to much brake while starting to turn.
On some tracks I often change brake balance on the fly (go to have it mapped on your wheel or a buttonbox) for a particular turn.

 

[Sean Kenney]

I have a G27 wheel and fitted the GTEye mod to the brake pedal, made such a difference.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GTEYE-Bra...K_Controllers_Attachments&hash=item232ee25db2
£18 off ebay

@Martin Field Do you think it is worth it? I was going to go that route, or start hunting for new pedals...which would be way more $$$

 

[Sean Kenney]

The thing is to do a degressive braking.
You need to hit hard and quick the brake pedal, but release softly as you get slower.
At the braking point, when you hit the pedal you have downforce and weight transfer that prevent from lock up. But the slower you get the less brake you'll need otherwise you'll lock your wheels.

I felt the same as you about IA (later braking point, but shorter braking zone) while playing DTM 2014 championship. I found myself braking earlier than IA and still hitting the back of the IA in front of me.
But once I get to be more quick on the brake pedal with maximum load as quick as I can I was able to match IA.
But I have to say that I use a Fanatec CSP pedal set with load cell. It's easier to manage a degressive braking with a load cell.

When you start to find your breaking point you can manage the brake bias, adding rear brake to balance the brake force on all wheel and prevent front wheel lock up. 1 or 2% on the rear can make the difference, but careful is you have to much brake while starting to turn.
On some tracks I often change brake balance on the fly (go to have it mapped on your wheel or a buttonbox) for a particular turn.

Thanks. I have noticed that!!! I have also noticed that a pumping action works ok as well.

 

[shardshunt]

in the q&a they announced an ai update and considering how good the ai are i think it'll be addressing two issues the breaking and the ramming.

 

[Fieldy]

@Martin Field Do you think it is worth it? I was going to go that route, or start hunting for new pedals...which would be way more $$$

Its improved my braking only because I have to really push down hard to put the brakes fully on, whereas before the brake pedal was more like the clutch (very little between them)

So I would recommend as a stop gap before new pedals but ultimately a brake pedal with load cell is the one to go for.