Handling in GTR2 versus Rfactor?

[MythrianXeras]

I'm curious about how realistic GTR2's handling model actually is. I understand these are race cars, so they're bound to have tighter setups and be more precise, but the cars, especially the HQ cars, rarely get squirrely and more frequently suffer from major understeer than they do oversteer. In contrast the cars in Rfactor's Enduracers mod, which runs on the same general engine as GTR2, feel much more lively--almost too lively, to the point that they feel unstable under braking and acceleration. Which is more realistic for GT cars of the early to mid 2000's?

 

[Shovas]

Ya, that one (but not in editing mode):

From the Jul's FFB Guide:

"If you want a realistic setup, keep it 1.0. If you want more information, lower it."

 

[Bjarne Hansen]

These comments should help clarify Grip Factor:

FFB steer force grip factor="1.00000" // Range 0.0 to 1.0, recommended: 0.2 to 0.6. How much of a factor the front wheel grip is on the steering weight.

Ideally, you want 1.0 for realism and only if you have to decrease it. Juls FFB Guide recommends this, too.

Do not agree with that statement!
Yes if you got a motion rig it might be the right setting but few of us got that.
But we do have visual input and I find a small influence 10-15 % of rear wheel grip confirms what you see on the display.
If you keep it 100% front wheels you can easy over look that you are now at the limited or even over the limited of max grip and the next thing that will happen is you spin out.
You then make a post that the tire grip / physics in Gtr2 is completely unrealistic.

But each to his own.
FFB is very a very individual thing and also depending on hardware and in case of Gtr2 also not only on FPS but also if it's the Cpu or the Gpu that limited the frames.
Find the FFB improves above 120 fps but not if it is the CPU that limited the F

 

[Shovas]

One of the subtle things about Grip Factor that is difficult to think about and illustrate is that it (a) reduces wheel weight as you lose grip, and (b) losing the rear end is a grip loss case, but (c) when the backend does step out the front wheels will already tend to maintain their direction (but feel like they're rotating in relation to the car) and this feels like wheel weight loss because the steering rack is following the path of least resistance..

See, it's hard to describe. The physics is already in place but Grip Factor < 1.0 adds some force to accentuate the feeling.

When you add Grip Factor < 1.0 you're adding *additional* wheel weight loss above and beyond the natural 'turning' of the front wheels when the backend steps out. The *additional* wheel weight loss can make it feel unrealistic for some wheels or scenarios. That's my take.

I understand if belt/gear wheels need this, but I agree with Jul's, we should start with 1.0 and decrease in very small amounts just the amount that is needed, and then you will be closer to realistic than the default GTR2 value for that param.

On a related note, in my ffb mod, for next version (v6) I'm actually setting Grip Factor=1.0 to tune out "awkward wheel behaviour during lateral slides". If Grip Factor is not 1.0 then when you have a lateral car slide the wheel doesn't feel right. It feels like it's trying to tell you something that isn't happening. I have a feeling that people who submitted PLRs previously won't even notice the difference because we've tuned the other more apparent params first.

 

[Shovas]

Do not agree with that statement!
Yes if you got a motion rig it might be the right setting but few of us got that.

I have a DD wheel (AccuForce). Maybe that's the difference.

You then make a post that the tire grip / physics in Gtr2 is completely unrealistic.

Who me? Where?

FPS but also if it's the Cpu or the Gpu that limited the frames.
Find the FFB improves above 120 fps but not if it is the CPU that limited the F

Definitely need 120+ fps to get the best FFB. Use Bill's Process Manager to enable all cores if you haven't already.

 

[Shovas]

Ya, that one (but not in editing mode):

From the Jul's FFB Guide:

"If you want a realistic setup, keep it 1.0. If you want more information, lower it."

^^^ Oh, this, this was a quote from the Jul's FFB Guide. I updated it to be explicit about that.

 

[Bjarne Hansen]

With 'You' I meant who ever tried 1.0 i front wheel grip and didn't fully understand what it does.
We really can't pretend to be realistic as we are missing so much real world physics like centrifugal forces. and lateral forces on us when racing in sims.
But I see so many post that states that you can't catch a spin out in Gtr2 and I wonder if I am a super driver, not likely !
Or maybe I just have a different setup?
As I am having a G27 I doubt it is a superior wheel

There isn't a superior perfect setup that will give you all information.
You have to find something that works for you and then learn what the signals the wheel gives you really means.
And that means spend hours/ days practicing!

 

[Durge Driven]

GTR2 and Rfactor use the same engine ...

As far as I remember GTR2 uses modified gmotor from GTR aka gmotor so hardly the same

rFactor uses gmotor2.0

They feel nothing a like...imho

I will stand corrected

 

[Shovas]

As far as I remember GTR2 uses modified gmotor from GTR aka gmotor so hardly the same

rFactor uses gmotor2.0

They feel nothing a like...imho

I will stand corrected

I don't know if they feel alike, I haven't played rF1 in years, but I can definitely feel the similarities of the engine's shared history.

But stock FFB won't allow you to feel that, it will clip too much.

 

[Bjarne Hansen]

As far as I remember GTR2 uses modified gmotor from GTR aka gmotor so hardly the same

rFactor uses gmotor2.0

GTR 2 uses Gmotor 2 version 2.1. Shows in the code.How much they modified I do not know
Rfactor 1 Current version is version 2.55.
Steam version got some further upgrades so it can use up to 6 controllers and some more I forgot what it was?
Again have no idea about the real difference between 2.1 and 2.55
Also not using rf1 as I find AMS1 a much better version of rf1.

 

[cangrejin]

I don't know anything .... but I consider that although both use the gmotor 2 (no matter what the truth is), simbin and ISI each made their simulator FOCUSED on a different type of car, rfactor is more "general or for single-seaters" while that gtr2 is more gts endurance. they are not the same, they MUST NOT be the same. (this without speaking of the ffb)

 

[Bjarne Hansen]

They all use gmotor2 there are just different versions or update stages.
in a hex editor you can see all the Simbin games are using gmotor 2.10 and I do think that Race 07 are very good with single seaters and pretty much everything else
So assume it is more a about what figures you are using that anything else.

There are good single seater mods for Gtr2 too so it is not that that can't be done!

Can't see what AMS are using but assume it is based on version 2.55?

I doubt there are any big changes between the versions it is likely features added.