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EU GT3 @ VIR - Sunday 14th February 2021

RasmusP

Premium
It's late, I am exhausted and I can't tell one braking point from another:

View attachment 446578

I went 1.5 secs faster with your setup in these dire conditions. With sleep I think I have maybe another 1.5 seconds in me. I did it because I thought I owed it to you. I just loaded the setup and have driven it - I did not look at any numbers so I don't know what you have put in there.

1) The traction on this setup is about twice what I have on the one that I gave you (if there is an undrivable setup it is my one). The Nissan does not move or slide and the pneumatic trail does not fall off.

2) The setup has exit understeer, but it is optimised to "eat" curbs as if they were road. Therefore the understeer is converted to neutral balance everywhere in the corner.

3) The gears are brilliant - you push them red as you said (in the above lap I did not because I forgot)

4) The grip is scary - I couldn't use all of it in these runs

As we saw from the telemetry - this setup is designed for exit speeds and traction. in T12 it turns around like a ballerina, no effort on my part. Upto T3 we have a very normal performance. After turn 3 the grip does not run out and thanks to the superb LUT you can feel the slip angle and just rotate the car out progressively to T5a (even asleep) where you can put your foot down at the exit of T5 and drive cool as a cucumber over the apex of T5a without unsettling the machine which gives you 1 second + at the top of the hill. Another two seconds at the exit of the T12 and another second or two at the last complex.

That's 4 seconds for an old friend

Jesus ...

PS Trust the stopwatch and your heart - don't listen to uninformed criticism.

:)
Did you record telemetry? Wouldn't make sense to look at the old time now with such an improvement :geek:
 

jackdyson31

Premium
So pleased it worked for you, :thumbsup: the criticism thing was of a more of a joke really. I tend to try and make my setups safe.
Most prefere a car with more rotation and life ( agility ) in the car, My racing buddy john”s setup’s were usually better, I used to pinch his front end setup, keep my rear setup and go quicker.

John preferred more front grip, so I ended up with more front grip and less oversteer than john’s setup. :roflmao:

The amount of combinations available always make setting cars-up difficult.
As we race sometimes three times a week, I sometimes arrive at a race and realise my setup is wanting.
Although I have a sort of short cut to it now, you would be surprised how track conditions can effect some cars.
it is easy to get near the ball park with a setup, very time consuming to get that last few tenths.:unsure:

More natural driver’s rely mainly on their intuitive skill, setups although very important when racing equal talent, racing against less skilled drivers like little “ol” me have marginal significance to them. I need every ounce of advantage I can get to even try and be reasonably competitive.
Sometimes it works well for me, sometimes like with the Primera last night, a catastrophe:roflmao::roflmao:
Good morning !

Well I am really glad you were kidding. I suppose it is not really important is it? Words like "natural", "talent" or "hardworking" etc have little meaning for me - the words "stopwatch", "honour" and "respect" are of greater significance. As long as you can put up a fight on the day and come home with some achievement, it is always a beautiful experience. I think you are the most wonderful racer, so generous and a very naturally fast driver indeed.

You are so right about track conditions, racing at the level of sims like AC I realised this immediately - sadly however I don't know what to do about it yet. I don't know enough so I must keep working and learning. I used to think I was good at setups until I saw people like you and our fellow sim racers here at RD. It immediately told me I don't know much about perfecting a car and I need to really work at it - so little time though. But I am trying to find the courage.

As for what I like, I have not a definite idea. I can analyse a given setup well, but I don't know what I want or will be especially quick. I would say: a neutral setup + a little ability to rotate it is a must. I was able to rotate your setup beautifully inside the pneumatic range of the tyres - you can feel it in the FFB. It is so beautiful the way you have done it.

The last few tenths used to be a nightmare on GPL. I would get near the top guys and then when I got something I thought was going to be faster, they were up half a second already. So yeah it is very hard.

I think what you say can be said of any driver. For example because a person is consistently slower than another one might say that that person has less natural talent. Then if you take another person slower than the first person the first person is more talented than the third. It is relative. However I think talent is just another way of saying "consolidated stage of learning". It changes through a driver's career.

I am sorry it did not go well with the Primera :confused: - that is another lovely car isn't it ?

Ernie, I was thinking : we might practice a little together on the server - would be a great experience!
 
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jackdyson31

Premium
Did you record telemetry? Wouldn't make sense to look at the old time now with such an improvement :geek:
Great idea (Morning) Rasmus - I will do so, do you want me to send it to you as well ? : But I can go much faster potentially - last night I was bushed but I wanted to say a big thankyou to Ernie so I went for it.
 

RasmusP

Premium
Great idea (Morning) Rasmus - I will do so, do you want me to send it to you as well ? : But I can go much faster potentially - last night I was bushed but I wanted to say a big thankyou to Ernie so I went for it.
If you have more potential anyway, then I'd say we should concentrate on the red bull ring now :p
It also has a lot fewer corners to analyze :D
 

HF2000

Thou shall not pass!!!
Staff
Premium
Just if you didn't know : you can also press plus and minus on the numpad to adjust the per-car-gain on the fly
Well I finished 3rd without going off track so first impression that it's better than what I had! :thumbsup:

Sunday with GT3 in Austria it will be very interesting to see if the new FFB settings will help me survive T1, T6 and T10.
 
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jackdyson31

Premium
If you have more potential anyway, then I'd say we should concentrate on the red bull ring now :p
It also has a lot fewer corners to analyze :D
Completely agree. I already learned that track last night as you advised me. I got a base 1:37 with the standard AC setup - I am going to try and push that as much as I can today. I don't think I will risk changes to the setup just yet because I honestly don't know what to change for a good effect ... I know Ernie is in the 1:30's :confused: ...
 
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jackdyson31

Premium
@RasmusP

Hello - I just finished a first decent session at the RBR and figured a few braking points:

1613653151059.png


The setup is the standard AC setup - I think there is some more time in the car (half a second to a second if I get it perfect? The delta said I was on for a faster on after this one - but I stopped at this improvement.). I will attach telemetry here. I will do another session later (gotta go to do other stuff now). Opinions welcome as always.

Losing time on Ernie mainly in the last 50% of the track - I have a suspicion he is mega through the esses and the corner just before them:

1613653759415.png
 
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RasmusP

Premium
@RasmusP

Hello - I just finished a first decent session at the RBR and figured a few braking points:

View attachment 446686

The setup is the standard AC setup - I think there is some more time in the car (half a second to a second if I get it perfect? The delta said I was on for a faster on after this one - but I stopped at this improvement.). I will attach telemetry here. I will do another session later (gotta go to do other stuff now). Opinions welcome as always.

Losing time on Ernie mainly in the last 50% of the track - I have a suspicion he is mega through the esses and the corner just before them:

View attachment 446687
You need to attach the actual motec file :p
The differences are in the details. Brake trail, steering, throttle input when syncing the data right before the braking point (dragging the offset, activating the offset bars with a press on "o" afaik).
You also need the track map for it!
You can download my motec layout (workspace) here:

The ld and if you opened the file in motec, the ldx file too.
Google drive, Dropbox, wetransfer, whatever :)

Did ernie attach files for red bull ring? Missed them...
Edit:
https://www.racedepartment.com/threads/gt3-vir-sunday-14th-february-2021.198014/page-13#post-3344804

Found them :p
 
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jackdyson31

Premium
You need to attach the actual motec file :p
The differences are in the details. Brake trail, steering, throttle input when syncing the data right before the braking point (dragging the offset, activating the offset bars with a press on "o" afaik).
You also need the track map for it!
You can download my motec layout (workspace) here:

The ld and if you opened the file in motec, the ldx file too.
Google drive, Dropbox, wetransfer, whatever :)

Did ernie attach files for red bull ring? Missed them...
Edit:
https://www.racedepartment.com/threads/gt3-vir-sunday-14th-february-2021.198014/page-13#post-3344804

Found them :p
Understood - will get on with this and get you all the data needed (apologise for not attaching Motecs). Big hug.
 
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demetri

Premium
@RasmusP

Hello - I just finished a first decent session at the RBR and figured a few braking points:

View attachment 446686

The setup is the standard AC setup - I think there is some more time in the car (half a second to a second if I get it perfect? The delta said I was on for a faster on after this one - but I stopped at this improvement.). I will attach telemetry here. I will do another session later (gotta go to do other stuff now). Opinions welcome as always.

Losing time on Ernie mainly in the last 50% of the track - I have a suspicion he is mega through the esses and the corner just before them:

View attachment 446687
I see one thing here right away. You were on medium tires (in a GT-R, seriously?) and Ernie was on softs. I think that's easily at least a second because in these weather conditions mediums are going to be stone cold and won't have enough grip.

This is probably AC GT3-specific, but typically you have to select your tire compound based on the air temperature (and the car/track combo too, e.g. Mugello I requires mediums at +20C, at least for the Audi) because if one compound works just fine a softer one would likely overheat and a harder one wouldn't get enough heat to keep them in the optimum range. It wasn't always the case, but after some tire model update that Kunos made, tires got a very narrow operating range and started to overheat massively and lose grip when sliding, at least for GT3 cars. This is also one of the reasons GT3 Porsche sucks almost everywhere in AC. Fronts are cold and not gripping, rears are on fire and sliding.

It is quite rare to have such conditions which would allow two different compounds to work fine for the duration of a race. In MR cars for example, sometimes you can slap softs for a few quali laps and add more rear downforce to keep rears from overheating too quickly, but that won't work in a long race because they will wear down, start sliding more and overheat as the result and you will find yourself fighting with the car by the middle of a stint and losing whatever you gained in the beginning.

There at RBR, the Audi needs softs at +20C, so GT-R (which often can run one step softer compound) needs softs too
 

Kek700

Premium
@jackdyson31

You can transfer the VIR gtr setup to Red Bull ring, just need to tweek tyre pressures. Even that at this stage is not important. I can give you the static pressures later.
Just a repeat of getting my setup from VIR , and transplanting to
Red Bull Ring.
 

jackdyson31

Premium
@RasmusP
Ciao Rasmus - I added the workspace to Motec - very sophisticated !
Here are the files to 1min 33.5 sec on mediums (stint 5) and a 1min 32.5 sec I did with the same car with softs as recommended by Dmitry above (stint 8):

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1BCCR2gv_xBTC05mFdlSqAgiUONGR8QoQ/view?usp=sharing, https://drive.google.com/file/d/1SPRYsfoXD2xuqlOjGtlhWtcIkBOmBVbG/view?usp=sharing, https://drive.google.com/file/d/1SYbbWrzPkhYBKuzT73u_OHn2jNkNkcdd/view?usp=sharing, https://drive.google.com/file/d/1uqwdiQvMDyGhB4k3wXbCCIcWNhafrBbf/view?usp=sharing

I just wanted to ask if the "stock setups" at Mugello (I went there and saw the Italian GT3's a few years ago! :D because we knew one of the drivers) from the same page as the workspace download are worth having ?

@demetri
Thankyou so much for all this advice ! Yes I took what was there and tried to apply the lessons from VIR to see what I could do. However I have also driven with the soft tyres and bang on as you say they are one second quicker!

@Kek700
Ernie ! Thanks so much mate - the stock setup has so much understeer especially in the latter half of RBR. In the first half you can muscle the car in somehow but it takes lots of precision in the second half. Hopefully Rasmus can give us an idea of where Ican improve - anyway I'll use the VIR setup from now.
 

RasmusP

Premium
I just wanted to ask if the "stock setups" at Mugello (I went there and saw the Italian GT3's a few years ago! :D because we knew one of the drivers) from the same page as the workspace download are worth having ?
Well you can try to beat his times around mugello and see how good that guy can drive and then judge yourself :D
I was nowhere near his times...

He didn't change that much though but to be fair they are a great starting point! Treat them like "better defaults".

They are definitely good enough for p5-p15 finishes :)

I sadly probably won't be able to have a look into motec until Sunday or even after the race. The grandma of my girlfriend just died so we'll drive up to her parents tomorrow morning until probably Saturday evening... :(

I'll try to at least give you advice for T1 though from my laptop :)
 

jackdyson31

Premium
Well you can try to beat his times around mugello and see how good that guy can drive and then judge yourself :D
I was nowhere near his times...

He didn't change that much though but to be fair they are a great starting point! Treat them like "better defaults".

They are definitely good enough for p5-p15 finishes :)

I sadly probably won't be able to have a look into motec until Sunday or even after the race. The grandma of my girlfriend just died so we'll drive up to her parents tomorrow morning until probably Saturday evening... :(

I'll try to at least give you advice for T1 though from my laptop :)
Thank you very much Rasmus - my sincere condolences mate. Please don't worry about the race - I'll keep trying to get closer to Ernie's time and that should be better than where I was last week - so ...

I'll try them at Mugello then - I am sure I will not be able to get anywhere near him but if I do you shall be the first to hear of it :D :p. If I can finish up in the top 10 that would be so good.

Take care mate
 
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