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SGP GT3 @ Laguna Seca - Sunday 6th June 2021

640er

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Premium
I still think that the best solution for the problem of people behaving irresponsibly is to raise the damage percentage to at least 50. The current 10% is a joke, you can send it left, right and center and get away with that. SRS, which arguably has about the same or even bigger skill spread (there're quite fast guys, but there's also those who run a Nords lap in 10+ minutes in a GT3 car), uses about 70% I believe, so even a small touch noticeably damages your car which makes most people think twice before doing stupid stuff. That (and the protest system too) has made racing there pretty clean, even in the mid-pack.

Yes, more damage will punish both the offender and the victim, but the thing is that it will do that automatically and there's no escape from that, while right now you can dive-bomb someone and just drive away with minor scratches and you're gonna be OK at least till the end of the race and if nobody reports you for breaking The Golden Rule (and I believe most people hesitate doing so) there're absolutely no consequences for your atrocious driving, especially since naming and shaming in the forum is frowned upon. As for the victim, their race is often already ruined anyway as Ernie's post shows pretty clearly. I watched the replay and I agree with everything he wrote here and can totally feel his frustration. It's no fun racing against someone you can't trust at all.
Definitely worth a try imho. Would add another layer of complexity, strategy and simulation
 

RasmusP

Premium
There should be a split damage setting. 10% for environment collisions and 80% for car to car colissions :D

I agree with demetri though:
I have the feeling that most people just post something frustrated or stop racing instead of reporting the offenders.
Every now and then there's a point reached where people lose respect for consequences. Same for cutting.

The staffs can't watch everything so if nobody reports the offenders, nothing will change for the better.
If people can't be bothered to write a report, then we, the participants are at fault for this.
 

pattikins

Premium
I will try damage on this weekend for gt-3. See how it goes.... It will obviously raise whole other set of problems but we'll see. Maybe it will work better with s.gp.

Hmmm, 70% damage & Luccaring. Would any of us have managed to cross the finish line :laugh:.

Is it not worth putting to the vote? Those that are in the mid pack, week in, week out, are more likely to feel the consequences than those @ the front.
 

Fiberoptix

Premium
I like the idea, excuse the newbie question but how accurate is it? I assume if you hit a barrier at speed the obvious says you are probably done, but can you then damage the car through bad driving. I for one have so far no respect for mechanical sympathy other than knowing I am wearing down tyres. Just a bit concerned about a sudden jump in realism to accommodate for ( other than punting other cars which I focus all efforts on not doing)..
 

pattikins

Premium
I like the idea, excuse the newbie question but how accurate is it? I assume if you hit a barrier at speed the obvious says you are probably done, but can you then damage the car through bad driving. I for one have so far no respect for mechanical sympathy other than knowing I am wearing down tyres. Just a bit concerned about a sudden jump in realism to accommodate for ( other than punting other cars which I focus all efforts on not doing)..

I believe repairs can be done during the pit stop. I'm not sure of the time penalty though.
 

Interslice

Staff
Premium
Hmmm, 70% damage & Luccaring. Would any of us have managed to cross the finish line :laugh:.

Is it not worth putting to the vote? Those that are in the mid pack, week in, week out, are more likely to feel the consequences than those @ the front.

We could have a vote before, but no one really knows what they are voting for. It's a big change. It will even effect aliens and front runners too as they now have to negotiate their blue flags and how they push the limits differently. Watkins is no soft touch!
 

HF2000

Thou shall not pass!!!
Staff
Premium
Since I started 2 years ago with RD it has always been 10% damage to let a victim of an incident continue the race without the extra punishment of damage. I was told that the staff would sanction drivers that don't behave respectful and cautious following the intention of the RD rules. As such creating a community in which everyone can enjoy the races in which they participate. But the staff can't do their job if the drivers don't report the incidents.
 

Fiberoptix

Premium
I thought the idea was people were encouraged to message eachother first. Maybe many of these incidents are resolved amicably offline and therefore are not reported. Some feel more upset than others after an incident and have differing levels of emotional investment. I have learnt in life not to voice opinions when angry in the heat of the moment but that is me. Somebody punts me I am not reporting it to staff unless they are a full on troll in which case you won't need me too.
 

RasmusP

Premium
I thought the idea was people were encouraged to message eachother first. Maybe many of these incidents are resolved amicably offline and therefore are not reported. Some feel more upset than others after an incident and have differing levels of emotional investment. I have learnt in life not to voice opinions when angry in the heat of the moment but that is me. Somebody punts me I am not reporting it to staff unless they are a full on troll in which case you won't need me too.
Well I came across a few cases of drivers never PM'ing other drivers they punted off although the incident was in clear sight for them onboard even at an fov of 20.
But whenever they were pm'ed, they politely apologized.
To then punt off the next one...

Whenever I hit someone and ruin their race, I write a pm if they don't reply on TeamSpeak/Discord.

I also broke the golden rule 2x. I wasn't sure about it, chose to go for my racing position.
Then checked the replay, found myself at fault and instantly wrote a pm to the other driver that I'd be very sorry for it.

From my experience the number of reports goes up and down. Basically cleaning up the clubs when they get too "dirty".

But I have to say I also think there's a step missing in the report process.
There's only PMing the other driver or getting him banned.

I'd like some "showing the incident to a staff and he decides to do nothing/give a warning/report it to go into the ban-vote-process.

Basically an official slap on the wrists.

Just because I'd like another driver to get a warning from the staffs, I don't necessarily want him to be banned for 30 days...
 

Interslice

Staff
Premium

Well I came across a few cases of drivers never PM'ing other drivers they punted off although the incident was in clear sight for them onboard even at an fov of 20.
But whenever they were pm'ed, they politely apologized.
To then punt off the next one...

Whenever I hit someone and ruin their race, I write a pm if they don't reply on TeamSpeak/Discord.

I also broke the golden rule 2x. I wasn't sure about it, chose to go for my racing position.
Then checked the replay, found myself at fault and instantly wrote a pm to the other driver that I'd be very sorry for it.

From my experience the number of reports goes up and down. Basically cleaning up the clubs when they get too "dirty".

But I have to say I also think there's a step missing in the report process.
There's only PMing the other driver or getting him banned.

I'd like some "showing the incident to a staff and he decides to do nothing/give a warning/report it to go into the ban-vote-process.

Basically an official slap on the wrists.

Just because I'd like another driver to get a warning from the staffs, I don't necessarily want him to be banned for 30 days...

That is unofficially pretty much what happens. Noone gets banned without truly deserving it, which is very rare thankfully. Don't worry about people getting banned because of a report you made. It would take a few or a poor response before they would get a ban. So just report or note everything with staff. That way serial apologists don't go unnoticed either.
 

RasmusP

Premium
That is unofficially pretty much what happens. Noone gets banned without truly deserving it, which is very rare thankfully. Don't worry about people getting banned because of a report you made. It would take a few or a poor response before they would get a ban. So just report or note everything with staff. That way serial apologists don't go unnoticed either.
Hehe yeah... "unofficially" :p
That's why I always include the race host in my "after event PMs". Luckily they are very rare nowadays :)
 

davejevons

Premium
Well that was a baptism of fire to GT3 racing! I should start with an apology as I'm pretty sure I caused a pile up on the last corner of the first lap :redface:. Sorry to @Taj Johal, @Interslice, @RFE3rd and Pat Eaton - it was a rookie error on my behalf.

Once we all got going I struggled to maintain a consistent pace. I made too many errors meaning I was losing large chunks of time fishing my Mclaren out of the gravel. On the plus side I managed my fastest ever lap time. did my first ever pitstop and got better at letting @Erik Andersson past.
 

RFE3rd

Premium
Well that was a baptism of fire to GT3 racing! I should start with an apology as I'm pretty sure I caused a pile up on the last corner of the first lap :redface:. Sorry to @Taj Johal, @Interslice, @RFE3rd and Pat Eaton - it was a rookie error on my behalf.

Once we all got going I struggled to maintain a consistent pace. I made too many errors meaning I was losing large chunks of time fishing my Mclaren out of the gravel. On the plus side I managed my fastest ever lap time. did my first ever pitstop and got better at letting @Erik Andersson past.
Hi David. It's ok, you probably missed your braking point by 2 or so metres. I anyway ended up where I deserved to be. Thanks for waiting for me afterwards though. Jip this group is a baptism of fire for us newbies, but you learn a lot from how everyone drives. I am getting progressively quicker watching where everyone's braking points and driving lines are. And people are always willing to help.
 
I will try damage on this weekend for gt-3. See how it goes.... It will obviously raise whole other set of problems but we'll see. Maybe it will work better with s.gp.
Although I'm new to the series (only about 5 or 6 races so far) I believe the standard of driving has generally been pretty good and fair (and I've done my utmost to do likewise although like most people I've made the odd mistake - @Taj Johal I'll repeat my on air apology for the contact at the Cockscrew that thankfully didn't take either of us off).
In my opinion it's also nice that if you do make a mistake your race isn't instantly over, hence I'd be worried that Ernie's frustration (that is probably fully justified) could turn into different types of frustration and/or people being *really* upset that someone else's mistake has ruined their race.
Hence do we really want to jump from 10% to a significantly higher damage value (I'd personally say not, or at least suggest smaller steps allowing people to adjust, but I also appreciate I'm new and only one voice)?
PS Thanks for the warm welcome so far and the great racing, all mid field but still great fun :)
 

demetri

Premium
Let's see how that plays out, but something has to be done to make people undesrstand that crashing into others over and over is not OK, even if not on purpose. Running with low damage incentivizes ridiculous stuka bomber dives because the worst thing that could happen is that you both spin and lose some time and maybe a few positions and then can continue "racing" like nothing happened, so the risk/benefit ratio of such a "maneuver" gets very much distorted.
 

Taj Johal

Premium
Although I'm new to the series (only about 5 or 6 races so far) I believe the standard of driving has generally been pretty good and fair (and I've done my utmost to do likewise although like most people I've made the odd mistake - @Taj Johal I'll repeat my on air apology for the contact at the Cockscrew that thankfully didn't take either of us off).
In my opinion it's also nice that if you do make a mistake your race isn't instantly over, hence I'd be worried that Ernie's frustration (that is probably fully justified) could turn into different types of frustration and/or people being *really* upset that someone else's mistake has ruined their race.
Hence do we really want to jump from 10% to a significantly higher damage value (I'd personally say not, or at least suggest smaller steps allowing people to adjust, but I also appreciate I'm new and only one voice)?
PS Thanks for the warm welcome so far and the great racing, all mid field but still great fun :)
Rich, thanks for the apology again but really no need, once is more than enough :thumbsup:
On discord I was checking you were ok, wasn’t angry or upset at you. I knew you had missed you’re braking point and it wasn’t deliberate. Besides we’ve all done it at one point or another :)
 

Interslice

Staff
Premium
Although I'm new to the series (only about 5 or 6 races so far) I believe the standard of driving has generally been pretty good and fair (and I've done my utmost to do likewise although like most people I've made the odd mistake - @Taj Johal I'll repeat my on air apology for the contact at the Cockscrew that thankfully didn't take either of us off).
In my opinion it's also nice that if you do make a mistake your race isn't instantly over, hence I'd be worried that Ernie's frustration (that is probably fully justified) could turn into different types of frustration and/or people being *really* upset that someone else's mistake has ruined their race.
Hence do we really want to jump from 10% to a significantly higher damage value (I'd personally say not, or at least suggest smaller steps allowing people to adjust, but I also appreciate I'm new and only one voice)?
PS Thanks for the warm welcome so far and the great racing, all mid field but still great fun :)

This debate comes up all the time. I can see both sides of it. At the end of the day this club has survived pretty well on the 10% damage system and welcoming all comers, even those who initially struggle to get a clean lap in.

For this weekend I hope people take it in good spirits as something a bit different, consider a second pit stop strategy with medium tyres and see it out until the chequered flag!
 

pattikins

Premium
Let's see how that plays out, but something has to be done to make people undesrstand that crashing into others over and over is not OK, even if not on purpose. Running with low damage incentivizes ridiculous stuka bomber dives because the worst thing that could happen is that you both spin and lose some time and maybe a few positions and then can continue "racing" like nothing happened, so the risk/benefit ratio of such a "maneuver" gets very much distorted.
As far as I'm aware, SRS (as an example) doesn't have RD's Golden Rule, so if a driver has a crash they can just carry on with their race. Again, I think SRS drivers are subject to a safety & performance rating, but anyone can join RD's club races, irrespective of experience - yet the penalty for an incident in an RD club race could now be much higher.
 
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