AC GT3 @ Imola - Sunday 18th April 2021

[demetri]

Absolutely Dimetri, but you were alongside and then slightly in front, so the other driver knew what to expect, for the vast majority of times, you are not going to get that advantage. ( you did say that though )
You will only get that with a poor exit on the previous corner from the other car, I can almost guarantee that the other Audi got a poor exit from the previous corner.

Definitely hard to achieve that against a GT-R. I watched the incident that I think you had in mind and I believe the other party was at fault. You can't dive like that there

In my case, the other Audi started accelerating on the slippery stuff hence the poor exit.

 

[demetri]

What I saw in the last races, and I am not innocent here (something I need to work on too) is that many drivers try to under cut corners and more or less dive bomb the inside even if they are 0.4 secs behind in the breaking zone. Making it almost impossible for the driver ahead to get a proper corner entry, always having the fear that the apex is suddenly blocked. I think you have to be at least on the same height or only a little behind but at least along side the other car to make a move and claiming the corner.

Or are there different approaches and opinions on that?

1. If you don't establish a significant overlap by the turn-in point you don't get to claim any space. Now the definition of such an overlap may vary, but I'd say getting 1/2 or maybe even 1/3 of your car alongside the other is enough.

2. If you got your turn-in overlap only by the means of late braking and aren't likely to hold the inside line because you're coming to the corner too fast that's a dive-bomb. The car making a pass on the inside should be able to keep its tight inside line without any "help" of the car being passed

 

[Kek700]

I constantly get overtaken by faster drivers, hence there is always that moment when I am right up their chuff going into a fast corner, virtually every time they start their corner entry, if I wished I could short circuit the corner and dive directly into the apex, at some point, I could say I was overlapping their car.
The fact that I sideswiped them, allowing the hit to slow my car, then claim it was my corner because rightly so there was an overlap, would not endear me to the race department community.
I always lose the corner before it has started, making the decision then what to do about it, I virtually never race for a corner with the overtaking car, all pretty obvious stuff really. And if that scenario is out of my control, I am always, I hope prepared for an alternative strategy.
I look at best for 1 or 2 overtakes in a 40 lap race, that is if everything goes to plan, which it rarely does.

 

[RasmusP]

The rules of racing

The Formula 1 message boards have recently been abuzz with discussion of the Rosberg/Hamilton collision at Spa 2014. From these discussions it has emerged that many fans are not well acquainted wit…

f1metrics.wordpress.com

Best article I've ever found about racing rules in general. Reading up stuff in there since 2017.

From my experience, here at RD "significant enough overlap" is when your front axle is at the same height as the opponents rear axle.
That's easy to judge (in replays) and the same for any car combination.

How I classify divebombs:
A) if you can make the corner while leaving one car width space: no divebomb, you're just faster than the car in front

B) if you can't make the corner while leaving enough space: divebomb

Now there's one problem if the car in front is slower than you.
You will be able to make the corner while leaving space, but you will onyl get enough overlap after the turn in point.
That's when things get interesting and you need experience and precision to pull it off without contact or affect the other driver's race.

There's a fine line between not showing enough respect and pulling of a nice overtake right at the limit of the rules.

 

[HF2000]

The rules of racing

The Formula 1 message boards have recently been abuzz with discussion of the Rosberg/Hamilton collision at Spa 2014. From these discussions it has emerged that many fans are not well acquainted wit…

f1metrics.wordpress.com

Best article I've ever found about racing rules in general. Reading up stuff in there since 2017.

From my experience, here at RD "significant enough overlap" is when your front axle is at the same height as the opponents rear axle.
That's easy to judge (in replays) and the same for any car combination.

How I classify divebombs:
A) if you can make the corner while leaving one car width space: no divebomb, you're just faster than the car in front

B) if you can't make the corner while leaving enough space: divebomb

Now there's one problem if the car in front is slower than you.
You will be able to make the corner while leaving space, but you will onyl get enough overlap after the turn in point.
That's when things get interesting and you need experience and precision to pull it off without contact or affect the other driver's race.

There's a fine line between not showing enough respect and pulling of a nice overtake right at the limit of the rules.

Interesting! What do you think of Max his overtake on Lewis in T1 last Sunday?

 

[random2k4]

reading the comments, that is also my opinion on those situations. Maybe its something (me included) that the drivers should remind themselves before each race.

I know it can be frustrating to not be able to safely overtake a slower driver but when there is no room there is no room. Patience is key I guess.

 

[RasmusP]

Interesting! What do you think of Max his overtake on Lewis in T1 last Sunday?

I say it was awesome until Max pushed Lewis wide across the kerb.
According the the link I posted and my own opinion, Max needed to give more space, go around the right hander (then Lewis would've pushed Max off so that wasn't a possibility), then go side by side into the next left hander and then max would've been in front for the big chicane.

 

[Interslice]

Interesting! What do you think of Max his overtake on Lewis in T1 last Sunday?

That was a perfect overtake. Lewis was a lucky man to survive a desperate attempt to make it to the second apex first. Shows max has him rattled.

The main rules breech i see on here is exploiting the concertina affect to make a diving overtake. The defending car has a catch 22 of defend early and loose time to the group ahead. Defend late and get punted or just give up the position. Very ungentlemanlike also.

 

[Interslice]

I say it was awesome until Max pushed Lewis wide across the kerb.
According the the link I posted and my own opinion, Max needed to give more space, go around the right hander (then Lewis would've pushed Max off so that wasn't a possibility), then go side by side into the next left hander and then max would've been in front for the big chicane.

Lewis would 110% have squeezed him out on the exit if he was given half a chance. I thought lewis should have conceded the position earlier.

Must check some replays as it was an interesting one.

 

[RasmusP]

Lewis would 110% have squeezed him out on the exit if he was given half a chance. I thought lewis should have conceded the position earlier.

Must check some replays as it was an interesting one.

Yep.. It's also what I don't like about f1. Go side by side at any apex and the outside car will be off-track, 99% sure.
Which is also why all drivers try to cut off the opponent at the apex. You go into the turn side by side and if possible, the outside driver will try to get the inside car to yield.
If not, the outside driver is already doomed for going nudged off track...

 

[HF2000]

Well, @Interslice and @RasmusP both your vision on the Max/Lewis situation clearly show how difficult it is.
My opinion on this is, that shortly before the turn in point Max was ahead of Lewis. Lewis did brake a little later and so while turning in, he was ahead. But Lewis should have known that Max, being in the lead when he started braking and being on the inside, couldn't give him more space and he didn't need to either.

 

[demetri]

After watching some parts of the race again. It taught me one important lesson. My times might improved a lot lately. I managed to beat my PB in the "first" qualifying by about 0.8 secs. Second one was a tenth slower. But my racecraft is something else, I got some decent results in some races, but really struggle overtaking "slower" drivers after I fell behind lately.

A good overtake often begins long before you actually complete the pass. You get a better exit from a turn, maybe not good enough to make it on the next straight before the corner, but if you can rattle your opponent or position your car so that it compromises their entry into the next turn you might get a good chance to succeed in or after that corner. You can watch the replay for my overtakes on 17th and 35th minute of the race. They both began quite a bit ahead of the actual passing move. With Andreas, I sort of forced him to take a bad line into Villeneuve, so he couldn't get a good exit. With Hape, I tricked him to move to cover the inside in a flatout corner which opened me the way to the inside into Rivazza.

It is rather rare that you see an opportunity and can seize it right away, it usually comes only from others' significant mistakes, but sometimes things like this happens:

2021-04-19 12-16-29

Watch "2021-04-19 12-16-29" on Streamable.

streamable.com

Here yellow GT-R was unable to make a counter-move because he was blocked by a slower car ahead

 

[demetri]

The rules of racing

The Formula 1 message boards have recently been abuzz with discussion of the Rosberg/Hamilton collision at Spa 2014. From these discussions it has emerged that many fans are not well acquainted wit…

f1metrics.wordpress.com

Best article I've ever found about racing rules in general. Reading up stuff in there since 2017.

From my experience, here at RD "significant enough overlap" is when your front axle is at the same height as the opponents rear axle.
That's easy to judge (in replays) and the same for any car combination.

How I classify divebombs:
A) if you can make the corner while leaving one car width space: no divebomb, you're just faster than the car in front

B) if you can't make the corner while leaving enough space: divebomb

Now there's one problem if the car in front is slower than you.
You will be able to make the corner while leaving space, but you will onyl get enough overlap after the turn in point.
That's when things get interesting and you need experience and precision to pull it off without contact or affect the other driver's race.

There's a fine line between not showing enough respect and pulling of a nice overtake right at the limit of the rules.

I'd like to clarify A) and B). In all cases, the car trying to pass on the inside has to make the apex first. If they miss (or were going to miss) the apex it is a dive-bomb, even there was still space left on the outside

 

[demetri]

I say it was awesome until Max pushed Lewis wide across the kerb.
According the the link I posted and my own opinion, Max needed to give more space, go around the right hander (then Lewis would've pushed Max off so that wasn't a possibility), then go side by side into the next left hander and then max would've been in front for the big chicane.

I believe in F1 they have a rule that if a car is slightly ahead after the apex it doesn't have to leave "da space" on exit. But again, F1 is hardly a good example of gentlemen racing.
E.g. wtf was that (1:11 in the video)?

 

[Taj Johal]

Senna and Schumacher have a lot to answer for, making the other driver back out to avoid collisions or blocking by squeezing the other towards a wall at 300k, don’t remember anything like that before them, but it could be my rose tinted glasses playing tricks on me

 

[RasmusP]

I'd like to clarify A) and B). In all cases, the car trying to pass on the inside has to make the apex first. If they miss (or were going to miss) the apex it is a dive-bomb, even there was still space left on the outside

I pretty much agree with this clarification, yep.
I'm not sure what the rules is regarding "making the apex" but yeah, if you push the opponent to "one car width" to the outside at the apex, he won't make the turn anymore.
I'd say if you are side by side on the straight before braking, then a bit of "going wide at the apex" can be used, carefully.
But if you're borderline "divebombing", you better make sure to nail the apex or even keep it a bit tighter than normally at the inside kerbs.


Especially in simracing where you always need a meter and "clear moves" to compensate the lag and poor vision.

 

[Interslice]

This where i thought lewis should have pulled out of it. But ye obviously this isn't club racing, even still i thought it was a very bad call from lewis to take on the sausages!

 

[HF2000]

This where i thought lewis should have pulled out of it. But ye obviously this isn't club racing, even still i thought it was a very bad call from lewis to take on the sausages!

I agree. That's exactly what I tried to explain .

 

[SOLO59]

Had issues getting on the 2nd server. I always seem to have issues getting on 2nd server. I didn't want to bother anyone qualifying so I tried figuring out myself but y'all gave me a 1 minute warning lol and gave me some advice. I didn't restart the PC but I did close everything and signed out of windows and signed back in. Jumped in the server FINALLY but qualy was over. So started from the back P18.

Trying to load the setup and get on track, I forgot to hit record on my camera lol. Shame because I improve the picture quality a bit and from the help of some of the guys in last week, I think I fixed my over driving/steering and found myself not killing the tires so quick.

Dodged all the multi car carnage early and found myself inside the top 10 early.

Because I started from the back, I stayed with a single set of softs. I struggled near the end but I think it was more of me not being consistent and not so much the tires. Front about 55% and rears almost 80% at the end. Found myself in P8 I think after the late pitstop, but struggled and fell back to P11 to finish! Here's to better days on Sundays with SGP!

 

[demetri]

Had issues getting on the 2nd server. I always seem to have issues getting on 2nd server. I didn't want to bother anyone qualifying so I tried figuring out myself but y'all gave me a 1 minute warning lol and gave me some advice. I didn't restart the PC but I did close everything and signed out of windows and signed back in. Jumped in the server FINALLY but qualy was over. So started from the back P18.

Trying to load the setup and get on track, I forgot to hit record on my camera lol. Shame because I improve the picture quality a bit and from the help of some of the guys in last week, I think I fixed my over driving/steering and found myself not killing the tires so quick.

Dodged all the multi car carnage early and found myself inside the top 10 early.

Because I started from the back, I stayed with a single set of softs. I struggled near the end but I think it was more of me not being consistent and not so much the tires. Front about 55% and rears almost 80% at the end. Found myself in P8 I think after the late pitstop, but struggled and fell back to P11 to finish! Here's to better days on Sundays with SGP!

Single set of softs doesn't work for one hour, especially in the Audi which tends to wear rears at a much faster rate. Because of that uneven wear, the car balance shifts toward oversteer as time goes. This was what likely caused your issues by the end of the race. Driving a car with low grip all around is one thing, driving one that has no grip on the rear is another.