AC GT3 @ Calabogie - Sunday 1st August 2021

[JamKart22]

Although my performance was terrible, that was an enjoyable race. Although i was alone most of the time, the track is tricky and its easy to loose control of the car, which i did a few times.
I didnt have much time to practice this week and had never seen calabogie before. I memorized the track from looking at the map and watching the aerial and onboard hotlap videos. It wasnt until later in the week that i was able to sit and practice. It was interesting to learn a track by watching videos on my lunchbreak.
The really cool thing about this race was how many people were in the gtr, which is the car that ive raced with the most, and how much better other people drove the car.
While im sure its down to practice and techneque, i find the gtr can be hard to drive before tinkering with the setup to remove some of the understeer. Im still learning how to play with setups, and im starting to understand the basics.
Im curious, can one of the faster gtr drivers post your setup for this track? I want to compare my setup with a better, more experienced driver.
I will also be carefully watching the replay to try and find ways to drive better. Im pretty sure im not carring enough speed through corners and relying on the nissans power to get back the lost speed. Probably not the best way to go.
Thanks again for providing an enjoyable sunday! See you next week!

Article and comments worth a read...

"Don’t Expect Miracles From Your Setup"
https://www.racedepartment.com/news...Don’t Expect Miracles From Your Setup,-Author

 

[JamKart22]

Although my performance was terrible, that was an enjoyable race. Although i was alone most of the time, the track is tricky and its easy to loose control of the car, which i did a few times.
I didnt have much time to practice this week and had never seen calabogie before. I memorized the track from looking at the map and watching the aerial and onboard hotlap videos. It wasnt until later in the week that i was able to sit and practice. It was interesting to learn a track by watching videos on my lunchbreak.
The really cool thing about this race was how many people were in the gtr, which is the car that ive raced with the most, and how much better other people drove the car.
While im sure its down to practice and techneque, i find the gtr can be hard to drive before tinkering with the setup to remove some of the understeer. Im still learning how to play with setups, and im starting to understand the basics.
Im curious, can one of the faster gtr drivers post your setup for this track? I want to compare my setup with a better, more experienced driver.
I will also be carefully watching the replay to try and find ways to drive better. Im pretty sure im not carring enough speed through corners and relying on the nissans power to get back the lost speed. Probably not the best way to go.
Thanks again for providing an enjoyable sunday! See you next week!

I tweeked tyre pressure to maintain 28c in all tyres. Used softs. Aero at 5. Changed the gearing so it max'ed out on the end of the long straight. This is all I dare mess with at the moment as I don't know what I'm doing.

I then practiced for a few hours to get some consistency. The fast drivers will tell you that if you can't put in a consistent lap time then you wont know the effect of a setup change. I don't know what level of consistency they are talking about - perhaps they could say? Maybe 1%?

It helped taking part in the Weds multi class race at the same circuit. It was a lot easier to get up to speed in the faster GT3 cars. Consider entering these if you've got the time

 

[HF2000]

I tweeked tyre pressure to maintain 28c in all tyres. Used softs. Aero at 5. Changed the gearing so it max'ed out on the end of the long straight. This is all I dare mess with at the moment as I don't know what I'm doing.

I then practiced for a few hours to get some consistency. The fast drivers will tell you that if you can't put in a consistent lap time then you wont know the effect of a setup change. I don't know what level of consistency they are talking about - perhaps they could say? Maybe 1%?

It helped taking part in the Weds multi class race at the same circuit. It was a lot easier to get up to speed in the faster GT3 cars. Consider entering these if you've got the time

Hi Colin, you tweek to 28 psi tyre pressure? I always use 26 because it then shows green in the Tyre app. 28 is orange for me.
Do you have information that 28 is better?

 

[JamKart22]

Hi Colin, you tweek to 28 psi tyre pressure? I always use 26 because it then shows green in the Tyre app. 28 is orange for me.
Do you have information that 28 is better?

I meant 26. I go off whatever it recommends in the tyre app

 

[JamKart22]

I meant 26. I go off whatever it recommends in the tyre app

It's the TT that's 28 I think

 

[HF2000]

It's the TT that's 28 I think

Yes or 27. Both are shown in green.

 

[Interslice]

I meant 26. I go off whatever it recommends in the tyre app

Bit early in the week for mind games colin!

 

[Fiberoptix]

Yes or 27. Both are shown in green.

I still don't really touch setup at all, I would like to learn as I feel it may get me closer to the front runners as typically when consistent I am closer to being on pace that I ever was.

I have to say though I just don't get tyre pressures, I thought they were changed in race cars to accommodate other variables so I don't really understand the 'ideal pressure' or having it green. For example if I have a tyre that won't get warm I assumed I could reduce the pressure as one of the ways of getting more heat into it. Or raise the pressure to stop tyres overheating at the cost of a grip reduction. I thought race cars typically ran the lowest pressures they could get away depending on the circumstances but my understanding on this area and this game is poor.. What does a colour indicator for tyre pressures mean, that they are outside of the ideal optimum range?

 

[Kek700]

@beginer

I got my setups from a small group here in Race-department, we all run the Nissan, as they did 90% of the hard work I just cannot give my setup away as I am giving all their hard work away.
What I am happy to do is look at your setup and look for glaring mistakes, probably okay anyway, will give you my tyre pressures and wing setting though.
To get the best from the Nissan, every circuit I drive generally has its own unique setup.
I use the setup to cope with my shortfall in ability, I can make the car quite competitive in a race, and easy to drive. qualifying is another matter, only once have I gone for a qualifying setup, always use my race setup. I Noticed Han was having some corner entry problems, which I dialled out for the race.

Post your setup here, others may want to chime in as well.

 

[Interslice]

Not sure who/where I saved this from but I was able to get good lap times with it straight away. Brake bias forward(value up) 2% was the only change I made. it's a Gt-R setup.

edit: author looks familiar ? https://www.racedepartment.com/thre...ay-21st-march-2021.200055/page-4#post-3363787

 

[HF2000]

@beginer

I got my setups from a small group here in Race-department, we all run the Nissan, as they did 90% of the hard work I just cannot give my setup away as I am giving all their hard work away.
What I am happy to do is look at your setup and look for glaring mistakes, probably okay anyway, will give you my tyre pressures and wing setting though.
To get the best from the Nissan, every circuit I drive generally has its own unique setup.
I use the setup to cope with my shortfall in ability, I can make the car quite competitive in a race, and easy to drive. qualifying is another matter, only once have I gone for a qualifying setup, normally use my race setup. I Noticed Han was having some corner entry problems, which I dialled out for the race.

Post your setup here, others may want to chime in as well.

Hi Ernie, what do you change if you have corner entry problems?

 

[Kek700]

if one question had one answer, life would be so easy.

I will answer for the Ferrari, as I am quicker around here in that than the Nissan.
and I do not stand on anyone's toes.

i am only talking about the car and not driving the car.

The Ferrari was doing the same, I started with wing, although it often does not make much sense to the speed you are going and the occurrence and as I am not in a position to see all the instantaneous dynamics. ( yes I know it is mid-engine )
I increased the wing, with the view of also increasing coast settings, then run in the back of my mind a change in rear camber.
( Generally speaking, I would go for rear camber if all the other parameters look sensible )
I will do all three, not supposed to, but it saves a lot of time.
If that cures the problem, I start to remove the rear wing, especially circuits with straights that are affected by too much wing.
If that fails, I start to get more aggressive with all the settings, also looking at the rear toe settings and combine that into it all.
If all that fails and I am left with a car that is losing too much time on some corner entry, I alter my driving style to compensate, if that fails I live with it.

Once I start to get into the ARB and softening the rear suspension ( or even stiffening the front to induce a small amount of understeer, interesting that you can actually make the entry and half mid-corner speeds better, but just at the right moment give a little bit of understeer to counter the rear oversteer ) I have to take the whole circuit into the equation. Starts to get a bit too heavy for a Sunday race. But as I can do all that in my head with just a dozen laps I find it quite easy, explaining it all is far more difficult.
I am no whizz-kid at setups, but I am quite good at getting the right setup for me.

I have on several occasions been witness to some very clever people at this setup malarky getting a setup completely wrong, saying so and starting all over again,
So don't think that it is all a,b,c,d etc, it's not.
Two things I concentrated on was my ability to not make mistakes that make me come off, and setups, both I am okay at, all the rest of it I am at best mediocre.
You are inherently a quicker driver than me, so if you out-qualify me, surprised I definitely am not.
Most of you Rotters here on our Wednesday and Sunday leagues are inherently faster than I am, ok some are in the process of learning, I am good at getting the car good at enhancing my poor abilities, not wasting my efforts on making a snail into a ferret.

What is very important, I do this all the time, look at your whole lap. I then break it into corners, I then grade them into the importance of each corner.
Do this in your head, I then make adjustments corresponding to that.
I don't look at one corner, disregarding the rest of the circuit, I am always balancing the whole circuit out as and when I make adjustments.

I consider myself lucky that I don't have to worry about the fast guys, so I just concentrate on my race, as I said before they are just markers to how successful I am at my task of circulating as fast as I can.

There is always that psychological constraint that you think you have to have alien speed before you can talk or do setups, and yes to some slight degree I can see that and have seen that. Assuming such a thing as a perfect setup exists, the slowest driver can have the best setup.

if you want a far more specific understanding then I am not your man, so many people in race department are Sooooo much better than me. I am more your Joe soap setup man.

I am sure that if an alien driver was to take our setup he would not have the same experiences at all, saying there is no problem. But as I am joe soap, then the setup I make for me are relevant.


I really apologise for the waffle.

 

[random2k4]

@beginer
I am considering you not a "newbie" driver, so you know how to get a car around a certain track in a decent time.
My approach to setups is very much the same in every car, but the most important factor here is to learn the track first.

Just as an example, I made a practice session for the last TT race also at Calabogie, but this would also count for any other car/track combo (unfortunately, I hadnt time to actually race). I am not familiar with the TT, so I just adjusted the tire pressures for the current track temp to keep them in the green margin for most of the track.

Needed about 5 laps to a get one decent without an off track. Over the next hour, I just could see my times getting better and better just by approaching corners differently and changing my racing line. So practice is key, before starting to manipulate the setup.

When choosing a car and driving around a track that you think you know well enough to not think about corner approaches and braking points too much, you will start to notice the specific behaviors of the car. Understeer, oversteer, loosing grip in the front etc. Now you can start adjusting parameters to counter such behaviors. Most importantly only 1 factor at a time and see if something changed for the better. If not, back to the default.
It will take quite some time, but once you got your car dialed in to your driving style, you can use this setup as a baseline for other tracks.

I have made a baseline setup for Imola, cause it basically has everything, long straight lines, fast and slow corners.
For my driving style I got the Z4 behaving how I like it in a very predictable way.
I shared this setup with others, and they found it way to passive and could not replicate my
laptimes. Thats why it is important to find a setup for your driving style.
For each new track, I am loading in this setup and start from there.

Changing setups can give you faster lap times. On Brands Hatch, I was able to get about 1.5 seconds of my PB with a better setup, just by adjusting gears and the diff/coast settings. (Ofc that did go hand in hand with more practice which was also a factor in getting faster)

But setup is not everything. I have used my baseline setup for Imola for over 8 month, and was hitting a plateau in my laptimes. I was searching for reasons, why other "normal" drivers not aliens were still much faster in certain sectors of the track. I watched a couple of videos to see were the differences are. I quickly realized that already at Tamburello, the very first corner I could improve my approach not my going in faster, but actually braking earlier. And that my line through Villeneuve, the very next chicane was not optimal. It took me quite some laps to break out of my already trained habbit, but was shocked that I could improve my PB more then half a second from a 1:43.94 to a 1:43.31. All by just approaching two corners differently without even touching the setup. Sometimes you think your car understeers, but you are just approaching the corner totally wrong or braked to late. No setup in the world can change that.
So practice is key and its not surprising to me that I have accumulated 10.600km on Imola in only a year.

So my advice is always the same. try to fine a baseline setup that make the car feel good for you and then just start hammering out the kilometers on track. You will find whats right or wrong over time. Setups not magically grant you a huge time bonus when you are not able hold the car on track, or get in the times in a consistent manner.

Also, I dont have any special Quali setups, I just use the one for the race and adjust the fuel to last for 3-4 laps. Dont have time to fiddle around even more with that. So far it was worked for me at least.

 

[Kek700]

Stefan made a good point, which I forgot to mention, first thing is to knock 4 or 5 laps to within 3 tenths of each other, then start with your setup.

PS
if you have been on the practice server with me, you will often see me just constantly lapping. I am not practicing, just searching for consistent laps to work my setup from.
And of course mentally noting what and we’re the problems are. I am lucky that I am usually working with one of my previous setups and I am just trying to refine it, but the same applies if I have not set the car up before.

 

[beginer]

Article and comments worth a read...

"Don’t Expect Miracles From Your Setup"
https://www.racedepartment.com/news/don’t-expect-miracles-from-your-setup.136/#:~:text=Games-,Don’t Expect Miracles From Your Setup,-Author

that was a good article and i know that most of my issue is with the driver, not the car setup. as im figuring out how to keep the car balanced around corners and not crash, im finding that the most helpful thing i can do is watch replays and study what faster, more consistent drivers are doing. that being said, its fun to tinker with the setup and try to make the car easier to handle.

i wish i could make the wednsday mazda races, but sadly they are in the middle of my workday. i should convince HR that sim racing is a "team building exercise"!

 

[beginer]

@beginer

I got my setups from a small group here in Race-department, we all run the Nissan, as they did 90% of the hard work I just cannot give my setup away as I am giving all their hard work away.
What I am happy to do is look at your setup and look for glaring mistakes, probably okay anyway, will give you my tyre pressures and wing setting though.
To get the best from the Nissan, every circuit I drive generally has its own unique setup.
I use the setup to cope with my shortfall in ability, I can make the car quite competitive in a race, and easy to drive. qualifying is another matter, only once have I gone for a qualifying setup, always use my race setup. I Noticed Han was having some corner entry problems, which I dialled out for the race.

Post your setup here, others may want to chime in as well.

of course i understand not wanting to give away a setup that took so much time and effort to create. i will post my setup here and i really appreciate any feedback. with this setup, i was mainly trying to remove some understeer and keep the car from unsettling too much over curbs.

 

[beginer]

Sometimes you think your car understeers, but you are just approaching the corner totally wrong or braked to late. No setup in the world can change that.

i hear that loud and clear! today i was on the practice server with @Interslice and i watched how he approached the track. he is sooo smooth! after comparing lines i realized that my approach to several corners was poor. more importantly, i saw HOW my lines were poor and what smarter lines looked like. my wrong lines were causing me to fight the car instead of working with it. i was able to shave a few seconds off my laptime after watching his practice run. (thats not considered spying, is it?)

...not using the whole track, breaking too late and not letting the car settle before the corner, causing understeer by turning the wheel too fast/far, not carrying enough speed through the curves... these are some of the issues ive identified in my driving, mostly from watching replays of races and comparing the fast guys to myself.

still a long way to go. still having fun getting there.

 

[Interslice]

i hear that loud and clear! today i was on the practice server with @Interslice and i watched how he approached the track. he is sooo smooth! after comparing lines i realized that my approach to several corners was poor. more importantly, i saw HOW my lines were poor and what smarter lines looked like. my wrong lines were causing me to fight the car instead of working with it. i was able to shave a few seconds off my laptime after watching his practice run. (thats not considered spying, is it?)

...not using the whole track, breaking too late and not letting the car settle before the corner, causing understeer by turning the wheel too fast/far, not carrying enough speed through the curves... these are some of the issues ive identified in my driving, mostly from watching replays of races and comparing the fast guys to myself.

still a long way to go. still having fun getting there.

Nah it's not spying chris, that's all part of the practice servers. Glad it helped!

 

[Kek700]

@beginer

Good driver to watch, Brian is smooth and quick, comes from planet earth too.

Setup, not too radicle, follows your ideas, does not deviate too much.

I managed a 1-19 with it so for earthbound drivers not too shabby.

Did not ride kerbs, if you really must, never ride a kerb with power, only know of a couple of GT3 cars in AC where that is possible. ( Rasmus seems to manage it though, I cannot )

Checked it for stability, it is bulletproof, ragged it, still no vices seen for me driving it.

PS, I set it up for road Atlanta 2018.

 

[beginer]

@beginer

Good driver to watch, Brian is smooth and quick, comes from planet earth too.

Setup, not too radicle, follows your ideas, does not deviate too much.

I managed a 1-19 with it so for earthbound drivers not too shabby.

Did not ride kerbs, if you really must, never ride a kerb with power, only know of a couple of GT3 cars in AC where that is possible. ( Rasmus seems to manage it though, I cannot )

Checked it for stability, it is bulletproof, ragged it, still no vices seen for me driving it.

PS, I set it up for road Atlanta 2018.

Dude! Thank you!!!

edit: so i got to try the new setup earlier today. Its got much more front grip without sacrificing the back! I can finally take the last turn in road atlanta at full speed.
Comparing the two setups was a great tutorial and it will serve nicely as a basis for future setups.
I wasnt any faster, but the car was much more stable and did what i asked it to do. Now its down to the basics: hitting apexes, keeping corner speed, and driving gently.
Thanks again!