AC GT Championship Race #2 @ Monza - Sunday 14th November 2021

[HF2000]

This is an excellent write up, any chance we can pin it ?
With permission of Yorkie / APEX of course.

If @Interslice agrees we can put the link in the first post of our multiclass events!

 

[Fiberoptix]

I think I know the moment you're describing as I saw it in the replay. Looked OK to me, I probably would've done the same

You learn through experience. I was focusing on the gentlemanly conduct that is called for in these racing club events, " it is the faster car's responsibility to overtake when safe to do so".

Your interpretation of that move being safe for all three of us is a little different to mine. I am sure your skill would have allowed you to get away with it too ( so long as the two of us in GT4s didn't do something unpredictable given we were racing into the turn) but that doesn't make it gentlemanly conduct

 

[Kek700]

Absolutely true Tim, given the same situation in a GT3 car against a GT3 I am of the conclusion that there is a very high probability of tears.

 

[Taj Johal]

I also have to agree with Tim.

Having read though the multiclass advice link posted by Dimitri (which I whole heartedly agree with) I fail to understand how the three abreast into T1 , (not by Dimitri, I hastened to add) was acceptable and meets the advice in the link posted.

Tim worked very hard to create an attempt at an overtake, this was taken away and he lost time.

On Sunday there was no collision but I could imagine on another occasion one or both GT4s in the gravel due to taking avoiding action, while the GT3 carries on it's merry way.
Am I correct in assuming the golden rule would apply here? And the GT3 waits for the GT4s?

Is that lapping maneuver really acceptable?
Not for me.

 

[Chris Down]

The most important thing is that GT3 drivers all get the same clear rules about what's acceptable and infringements are actively policed and penalised. Otherwise, some of the drivers are so close in laptime that they will feel they have to do whatever the drivers around them do in order to avoid losing more time in traffic than their close competitors.

If there is room for interpretation, people are always going to take the most lenient interpretation. I suggest we make it clear what's acceptable and what's not with explicit examples up front, and then not be afraid to penalise cases where those rules have been broken. That will make people in close battles less afraid about the time costs of being more courteous to GT4s, knowing that anyone not doing so will have action taken.

 

[demetri]

I also have to agree with Tim.

Having read though the multiclass advice link posted by Dimitri (which I whole heartedly agree with) I fail to understand how the three abreast into T1 , (not by Dimitri, I hastened to add) was acceptable and meets the advice in the link posted.

Tim worked very hard to create an attempt at an overtake, this was taken away and he lost time.

On Sunday there was no collision but I could imagine on another occasion one or both GT4s in the gravel due to taking avoiding action, while the GT3 carries on it's merry way.
Am I correct in assuming the golden rule would apply here? And the GT3 waits for the GT4s?

Is that lapping maneuver really acceptable?
Not for me.

Well, the GT3 car was ahead at turn-in while being on the inside:

hit the apex just fine:

and came out completely in the clear ahead of both GT4 cars:

Did that spoil an overtake by the green car? We may never know, though it didn't look to me that such an overtake would've necessary succeeded as that car never got better than ~60% of the car alongside the white one and typically you need to be at least fully alongside to make a successful pass in the first chicane

The only questionable thing to me is shown here, where the GT3 trying to make a better corner approach moved to the left and slightly squeezed the green car while not being completely in the clear:

That's a risky move that could've ended in a disaster if the green car was driven by a lesser-skilled driver

 

[demetri]

You learn through experience. I was focusing on the gentlemanly conduct that is called for in these racing club events, " it is the faster car's responsibility to overtake when safe to do so".

Your interpretation of that move being safe for all three of us is a little different to mine. I am sure your skill would have allowed you to get away with it too ( so long as the two of us in GT4s didn't do something unpredictable given we were racing into the turn) but that doesn't make it gentlemanly conduct

After the very first championship race, I knew there was no gentlemanly conduct anymore. This second race only solidified that impression to me, but that's up to the admins to handle. I'd suggest that if anyone feels that they were victimized they should file an incident report and let the admins make their decision. The only thing that keeps the behavior in check in a league (and this is essentially a league now) is meaningful penalties for infractions handed out

 

[Herlev]

I've done quite a few multiclass races now (both RD and non-RD). And I have to say that these ones are among the most enjoyable. Yes sometimes the GT3 cars is a bit to impatient, but overall I have absolutely nothing to complain about. Not even once has I been run off the track etc. These close calls are all part of multi-class racing and if you ask me is also part of the fun.

I wouldn't change a thing

 

[Kek700]

Trying to get 24 drivers to be like-minded is very difficult, especially with new drivers appearing and disappearing weekly.
Some have a sort of killer instinct, some like me have a more pragmatic view, some are in the middle somewhere, some are a mixer of both in one package.
As Dimitry says if you strongly police it then that is one solution.
My take is that Han and Brian want a fun sport, not turn into a sort of policing which will ruin for them, and probably the rest of us.

These things are spur of the moment reaction, not premeditated, so perhaps these articles are a way of venting and making sure everyone is of a like mind.

I watch with interest all drivers in our races and take note of their coolness or go for it racing attitude, somehow for all my occasional bleating's.

I do not want to eradicate that in all our racing buddies it would make it all quite too controlled, probably dull too.
So I think Lars has just about summed it up.

 

[demetri]

Hi all!

First, sorry for the first 1.3 seconds, where I completely forgot the rolling start... lol. Last time I was racing here was the regular one and it was a normal start... quickly returned to my position. Race overall all right, one overtaking due to an error from the guy which later on took the position back. The track is a long time familiar (since Final Lap on MAME...) but with the Cayman couldn't find anything to help me out.

I couldn't put message on the chat nor connect on the channel on Discord. If later on someone could help me in this matter I would appreciate it.

Have a nice week!

Fabiano.

@FabianoRL , I'm sorry to tell you that, but you were lagging again with your car sporadically warping around pretty much throughout the whole race. I saw it both times I was lapping you on the track (see the video below) and checking the replay showed that those weren't some rare occurrences.

I believe you might be using a wireless connection as your ping went up and down in 25-75 range and that could be the reason for that. Wireless network has a much higher chance for random packet drops and you need a really stable connection for AC to work flawlessly online. The problem is that you probably don't see that, but everyone around you is affected and if they try to race close to you there's a good probability of a bad thing happening due to these random warps. If you can fix your connection issues (get an Ethernet cord maybe?) I'd really appreciate it.

 

[Fiberoptix]

After the very first championship race, I knew there was no gentlemanly conduct anymore. This second race only solidified that impression to me, but that's up to the admins to handle. I'd suggest that if anyone feels that they were victimized they should file an incident report and let the admins make their decision. The only thing that keeps the behavior in check in a league (and this is essentially a league now) is meaningful penalties for infractions handed out

That's a shame Dmitry. I feel there is at least in my class so I will continue that sentiment. No wish to raise any grievances with admins from me, I merely used it as an example in description of my race, it wasnt to call out a particular driver.

Thank you for the in depth analysis and the insight from the GT3 perspective. It is all an experience to learn from, my multicpass (and in fact online racing) experiences are only within the walls of this RD club.

For the record I did lift early to see the GT3 through but I had also failed to execute the same move a lap or so before from the same position.

 

[Aksu]

Well, the GT3 car was ahead at turn-in while being on the inside:
View attachment 518008

hit the apex just fine:
View attachment 518009

and came out completely in the clear ahead of both GT4 cars:
View attachment 518011

Did that spoil an overtake by the green car? We may never know, though it didn't look to me that such an overtake would've necessary succeeded as that car never got better than ~60% of the car alongside the white one and typically you need to be at least fully alongside to make a successful pass in the first chicane

The only questionable thing to me is shown here, where the GT3 trying to make a better corner approach moved to the left and slightly squeezed the green car while not being completely in the clear:
View attachment 518019

That's a risky move that could've ended in a disaster if the green car was driven by a lesser-skilled driver

Joining to conversation after reading quite a lot of messages...
Seems like everyone is talking about that situation... just wondering why nobody have tagged me to in this because that gt3 is me? Isn't it?
Nevertheless I will open up situation a bit. So yeah.. margins were small in that overtake BUT I got quite much slipstream from gt4 so got more speed than in normal lap at that point and I knew that those gt4's will brake earlier than me so I will get head of both in time.

And that is quite normal racing situation. We still are racing? Not Sunday driving? I would try overtake in same situation if there was gt3 beside me. I have quite good view from my cockpit with VR and car radar helping me so didn't expect there would be problems because I started braking at right spot to keep my line through the corner.

That was indeed tight spot for green gt4 (whoever that was) to be middle of two cars but there should have been space for both. If I squeezed you too much I'm sorry about that

Finally.. From my side of view. That was normal racing situation without any touches or dive bombing. Just counted on my experience to make that overtake smoothly and that's it

And thanks to @demetri for photos from replay!

 

[Interslice]

Interesting to hear the 2 cents and opinions on this. It's great for the club to be in the realms of this sort of discussion about what is polite overtaking rather than full swinging handbags over turn 1 monza punts.

If anyone has an issue with an unsafe overtake (that include's the attacker and defender) or suspects a divebomb, please send a PM and i'll have a look.

 

[FabianoRL]

@FabianoRL , I'm sorry to tell you that, but you were lagging again with your car sporadically warping around pretty much throughout the whole race. I saw it both times I was lapping you on the track (see the video below) and checking the replay showed that those weren't some rare occurrences.

I believe you might be using a wireless connection as your ping went up and down in 25-75 range and that could be the reason for that. Wireless network has a much higher chance for random packet drops and you need a really stable connection for AC to work flawlessly online. The problem is that you probably don't see that, but everyone around you is affected and if they try to race close to you there's a good probability of a bad thing happening due to these random warps. If you can fix your connection issues (get an Ethernet cord maybe?) I'd really appreciate it.

Actually I think I saw you once through the mirrors passing straight at Parabolica... lol. Then I've realized it might be the connection again. =\

I'll arrange an ethernet cable and see how it goes. Thank you for your comprehensive feedback.

All the best!

 

[Partick Eaton]

Can any post a copy of the replay of this race?
Thanks.