GPU upgrade

MPortnoy · Sep 13, 2018

I'm a complete noob when it comes to computers, so please bear with me.
I have a 2 year old Acer Predator desktop:
CPU - i5 6400 2.70 GHz Quad-core (4 Core)
GPU - GTX 960

I want to upgrade my GPU, not necessarily immediately as I know prices might go down after the RTX 20xx release.
1) What's the most you think my current CPU could handle without bottlenecking the GPU? 1070, 1070ti, 1080, 1080ti?
Or 2) can I upgrade say to a 1080ti and upgrade my CPU later? If so, what would be the most obvious CPU choice?
I don't want to go overboard having to change everything, just have a system that can handle racing sims for the next say 4 years. I don't play any other type of games and use my PC exclusively for sim racing (single monitor, no VR and no streaming).

DucFreak · Sep 14, 2018

Your Intel i5 6400 is still a very decent CPU, but it'll start to show its limits sometime soon, for two reasons:

Clock Rate (Speed).
It has a somewhat modest clock rate (2.70GHz base, 3.30GHz turbo), which is an aspect of great importance for PC gaming. With current processors (Intel i3/i5/i7 and AMD Ryzen), at this point, ideally you'll want a processor close and beyond 4.0GHz, preferencially on all its cores (base clock).
Core Count.
It's a quad-core without hyperthreading (so, 4 cores and 4 threads) and with programs becoming increasingly multi-threaded, it will eventually start to show limitations, just like has happened with dual-cores a few years ago.
If it had high clock rate (like it's bigger brother i5 6600K has, and that one can even be overclocked), you could somewhat counteract the core count limitation and prolongue the lifetime/usage of the system, but as we've seen in the first point above, it has low clock rate. And you can't overclock that processor, so.......

If we weight what's "in more need of upgrade", your CPU (i5 6400) or the GPU (GTX 960), I'd say that it's definitely the GPU that should be upgraded first.
The i5 6400 can handle a GTX1070 just fine, but may show some bottlenecking from there on.
Meaning, if you intend to keep the i5 6400 CPU (and not upgrade it), then anything better than a GTX1070 will most likely be a waste of money and capabilities.

On the other hand, you could plan upgrades in phases, and so make purchases of parts with that in mind, for the longer term, like this:

better GPU (to replace that GTX960).
Just make sure first that the Power Supply Unit (PSU) inside that pre-build Acer Predator computer has good specs that allow for that GPU upgrade (as it should).
For reference, the GTX960 you have is ~120W consumption, needs only a 450W PSU.
The GTX1070 and GTX1070ti are ~180W consumption, the GTX1080 is ~200W.
Any of these three need at least a 550W PSU (600W+ PSU recommended).
better CPU (to replace that i5 6400)
The Intel i7 6700 (non-K, not-overclockable version) is the obvious upgrade choice, it has better clock rate (3.4GHz base, 4.0GHz turbo) and also better core count, being a quad-core with hyperthreading (4 cores and 8 threads). It is a direct swap.
The motherboard in that pre-build Acer Predator is almost surely an H110 or B150, so any "K" (overclockable) processor will have potencial wasted in there.
more RAM memory (to add to what is in there)
I sense that's a pre-built PC with 8GB RAM memory (2x sticks of 4GB DDR4 1866 MHz, I almost bet).
If so, adding another 8GB of similar memory (for a total of 16GB) would be nice.

With such upgrades (GTX1070 or better for GPU, i7 6700 CPU,16GB of RAM memory) it should be a rock solid gaming machine for a good time.

MPortnoy · Sep 14, 2018

Thanks a lot for the detailed explanation.

That actually makes a lot of sense. I'll go for the GTX1070 first. My GTX960 can handle rF2 pretty well and I'm not struggling too much even now in ACC but could benefit from the boost of a GTX1070 to bump up a few settings. After that, probably the only other game that will come soonish will be AMS 2 which I assume a 1070 will also be able to handle it.
Probably it won't be after that, that I'll need to consider a CPU upgrade.

I'm not completely sure, but according to the internet that specific model already came with 16GB of RAM.

Cheers

DucFreak · Sep 14, 2018

If not sure what's the exact mem in that PC, I'd suggest to download CPU-Z (get the "ZIP- English" listed there).
Extract the downloaded ZIP file somewhere in your disc, then run the "cpuz_x64" executable from the extracted files.
With the program opened, go the tab "Memory", you'll see the ammount/size, type and timings of the RAM memory in that PC.

MPortnoy · Sep 14, 2018

Cool, I'll check it tomorrow. Thanks for your help

MPortnoy · Sep 14, 2018

@DucFreak
Is there any specific 1070 you'd recommend? Brand, model, # of fans??
I have no idea what differentiates one from the others and no idea either what's installed in my computer atm.
Thanks

DucFreak · Sep 14, 2018

Not knowing what PSU specs you have in there, in case it's close to the lowest limit the GTX1070 can accept, I'd recommend a model that uses a single 8-pin connector from the PSU because that usually means it'll be more economical (relatively) in power draw.
Some GTX1070 models have 8-pin + 6-pin connector, usually for overclock purposes, and draw more power from the PSU.

No idea about space size inside your PC case either...
The triple-fan models can be a bit overkill, plus they're usually too big and heavy - avoid it.
The single-fan models (aka "Mini" models) don't have as good cooling but are still OK, and have the advantage of fitting inside any PC case - if yours is limited there, it's the right solution.
The double-fan models are the most popular, because they usually are the best balance of cooling, size and weight. If your PC case is a normal size mid-tower, then it's a recommended solution for you.

This is an in-depth video from TechDeals. It's about a year old (June/2017) but still valid today.
As much as this guy may sound like a glorified salesman, he knows very well this stuff.

While the whole video is very informative, you may wish to skip it to 13:55 (time in the video), when he looks at individual models:

MPortnoy · Sep 15, 2018

Good vid, thanks!
So basically they're all pretty much the same lol
Good to know

MPortnoy · Sep 19, 2018

EDIT: Nevermind. Just realized i7-7700 is 7th generation while mine is 6th.

DucFreak · Sep 19, 2018

MPortnoy said:
I want to keep an eye on CPU prices between now and Q1 2019 before ACC full release.
Through CPU-Z I found that my current motherboard and socket is a Skylake LGA 1151.
Now, I found a few options of Skylake 1151 which I'd assume all be a fit:
i7-6700, i7-6700k, i7-7700 and i7-7700k and want to keep as many options open as possible in case I find a good discount or clearance on any of them.

Is it realistic to consider all of them or should I just stick to a i7-6700 as you initially suggested?
Thanks

Congrats on the GTX1080 purchase!
....the jump in performance must be so big that you must be over the moon atm!

lol

In regards to your motherboard and processor choice for it, you must check what Chipset is that. You can see that in CPU-Z as well, in the option "Mainboard" (third tab, counting from left to right).

Unless it's a Z170 or Z270 Chipset motherboard, yes I'd still recommend the i7-6700.
....Why? ...because it's a direct replacement over your i5-6400 (therefore easier and safer choice), has same wattage consumption inclusively (65 Watts). Also because the performance difference between i7-6700 and i7-7700 (both non-K) is so small that, in practice, it'd be unnoticed by 99,9999% of users.

I strongly suspect your motherboard Chipset is H110, or B150, or H170. And these motherboards usually have VRMs meant for CPUs with ~65 Watts. Some may show thermal issues for the motherboard if using hotter processors like the "K" models (95+ Watts) at full load, for prolongued times. Sure, some of these motherboards can be robust and present no issues, but they'll be the exception, not the rule.
If yours is one of these Chipsets (H110, or B150, or H170), that's the main reason why I wouldn't recommend the i7-6700K (which runs hot), and much less the i7-7700K (which runs even hotter, and may be not supported). So, although "K" processors can be made to work in such motherboards (at stock, never overclocked) it can be a bit in a "at your own risk" way - but your choice, of course.

Supposing that you have a Z170 Chipset motherboard (which I honestly doubt), it means that any Intel 6000 desktop series CPU is supported (including i7-6700K), with no issues.
Z170 Chipset will need a BIOS update to support 7000 series desktop series CPU but, AFAIK, not all Z170 motherboards are guaranteed to allow this support.

Supposing that you have a Z270 Chipset motherboard (which, again, I honestly doubt), then you can install any Intel socket 1151 desktop CPUs from 6000 and 7000 series (yes, i7-6700K or i7-7700K models included), straight forward and without any issues.

Lastly, and seriously... I know people make funny faces when I say this but, consider having a look at Ebay, from good reputation vendors, for semi-used CPU units (instead of buying these brand new at expensive prices). There are also ocasional bargains to be found, when it's worth making an honest bid, or go for the "buy now" price.

MPortnoy · Sep 19, 2018

DucFreak said:
Congrats on the GTX1080 purchase!
....the jump in performance must be so big that you must be over the moon atm! lol

Got it, thanks!! And yes, it's a B150 so I'll stick with the i7-6700. Found it at a local store and newegg but will keep an eye on them in case there's some black Friday sale or w/e. I'm not in a hurry now that I have the 1080. And yes, I'm super happy with it!!

A bit on the fence on buying used electronics from sites like ebay but thanks for the suggestion. I prefer the peace of mind of having store warranty

Thanks a lot

DucFreak · Sep 19, 2018

MPortnoy said:
A bit on the fence on buying used electronics from sites like ebay but thanks for the suggestion. I prefer the peace of mind of having store warranty
Thanks a lot

I can understand that but, if it matters at all, processors are more robust than people think. Degradation in performance is close to zero (if any) after a decade of brutal use, be it at home use or even on server chips.
I haven't bought a brand new processor for nearly a decade (I think?) and I even overclocked (with no issues) most of the five or six chips that I bought used in these last 9 years or so.
Which is not the sort of harsh life a processor on your motherboard would have (easy life in it).

The prices (new, unboxed) for an Intel i7 6700 should be at about 270,00 Euros atm, though you'll still find stores trying to sell them at the 310,00+ Euros that they used to be (avoid paying that much!).
Ebay may have them at half the price, semi-used (maybe even new, stock excess sales?).
In the past, I've bought CPUs on Ebay (from good reputation sellers), sometimes from China, as there can be plenty premium parts, sometimes from dismantled office PCs (bought from enterprises, studios, etc), legit deals, at absurdly good prices. Can be worth a look.

MPortnoy · Sep 20, 2018

You just made me think about it! Lol

Found one just now on ebay, used, CAD$300 +free shipping (buy it now), while at my local store new is at $415+tax.

All good reviews about the product working so far. I might just go for it

DucFreak · Sep 20, 2018

MPortnoy said:
You just made me think about it! Lol

Found one just now on ebay, used, CAD$300 +free shipping (buy it now), while at my local store new is at $415+tax.

All good reviews about the product working so far. I might just go for it