PC2 Game changing info

[Kurupt CDN]

Edit: There has been some tweaks/changes in the past few patches so please use the temps listed in the link below for each class as recommended by Casey.

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?57541-Project-CARS-2-Tyre-Temps

So the game has been out now for a few weeks and I have had the joys of listening to the raving reviews and the hatred towards it, peoples opinions and complete opposite spectrums in regards to the game of what they were feeling....shitty, physics, bad ffb, track grips vary too much and same with the cars etc. etc.

I'll be honest, I've had moments of brilliance, followed by many WTF is wrong with the ffb and physics. I can't feel crap, mushy or any detail and usually quit to go screw with my ffb settings.

Today I was browsing through there forum looking for the magical cure to bring out the potential I've felt a few times when I came across a thread named "Tire Temps" that had 1 response with a link.
That link containedwhat I felt was the magical cure and transformed my meh rating to holy **** this game is way more sophisticated than I ever gave it credit, and completely changed the entire ffb and physics and threw the many WTF moments right out the window.

Here's the link, the important part is a few responses down by F1racer64 who linked Pirellis, Michelin and Hankook racing tire info containing what tires to run during certain temps, optimal temps as well as suggested chamber. I can't remember if the in-game tire brands are officially sponsored or based off them? but they were damn spot on!!

I choose the Audi R8 at Long Beach a track I've had issues with grip and feel, followed the info and headed out on the track. It started out the typical slippery no feel I'd come accustomed too, then with each lap I started getting more and more feedback and response from the ffb and the car, when I finally hit the optimal temp for that tire I was left grinning from ear to ear for nearly 2 hrs just lapping.

Here's the Link for those who want to read it
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/car-behavior-and-tire-temps-after-patch-2-0.361962/

For the lazy ill post the tire brand info here and give you a quick run down which was a quick copy & paste from F1racer

EDIT: Youll have to dl the tire info from the link as its too large for this form?
My tips:
I always thought green was the optimal temp colour for your tires and brakes....its actually a yellowy green you want.
Soft compounds are for cooler temp races
Hard compounds for hotter

The goal should be to achieve 32 PSI in every track condition. This means your cool (ambient) temp pressures set in tuning setup need to be HIGHER than your warm (ambient) temp pressures. Remember that the pressure being set in the tuning setup is your COLD pressure, whereas the target is 32 PSI (2.2 BAR) at HOT pressure state. Cooler ambient temps means less heat generated, so the starting pressure needs to be higher to begin with (closer to 32PSI).

Using the above guidelines, I have achieved consistent 150F - 175F temps in all conditions. Note that Pirelli states that "Racing tires work best at high temperatures (122° - 176° Fahrenheit)". In my testing, this has been exactly correct and has been where I have found the most grip.

For me, it completely changed how I looked at the game, the tire model and having to manage them while planning your strategy for the changing track conditions and weather has added so many aspects to my sim racing that I have not been able to experience to date in any title other than RF2.
Personally, I feel the live track 3.0 is even more advanced with the pooling water, snow, mud, ice and debris brought on track features.

I have a few questions for @Ian Bell if the info above is correct, why the hell didn't you use this info to highlight the tire model in your pre launch promos or pinned in your forums?

As a suggestion would it not be beneficial to raise the stock tunes PSI a few clicks so that the tires reach there optimal operating temps slightly quicker so it can highlight how good the game feels rather than struggling for several laps with lackluster ffb and response from the car.
The avg racer is never gonna figure it out and instantly give up or bash the game for poor physics and ffb. Once that tire starts reaching its optimal temps its feels amazing

Cheers
David

 

[ermo]

Hi Ermo
Can you shed any light when the next patch is due? Please.

No idea, sorry.

Truth be told, I'm not privy to those decisions, and even if I were, I wouldn't be able to share the details here.

I'm already balancing on a tightrope wrt. the NDA we all signed when joining WMD2, but Ian has pressed 'agree' on a few of my 'full disclosure' posts, so I'm reasonably comfortable that I'm within bounds so far...

EDIT: From the wookie himself (source):

"Very soon now

"

 

[bmanic]

Why would it make any differance to the FFB if a track is built using laserscans?

It makes a huge difference. The laser scanned tracks have a lot more tiny bumps and irregularities (and they also vary a lot.. some are smoother in real life, hence smoother in the game). Just try Oulton Park for instance. It's pretty bumpy. Set FX to 50 and if you can't feel anything there on either informative or RAW preset, then something is a) wrong/buggy or b) you like "crazy" amounts of rattling which the game can't provide.

Also, different cars have very different amount of FFB "detail" depending completely on their chassis and suspension setup (caster for instance plays a big role too).

 

[ermo]

Why would it make any differance to the FFB if a track is built using laserscans?

Because if a track isn't scanned, the surface doesn't have the 'point cloud' micro-detail that is fed through the tyre sim -> suspension solver -> steering rack -> FFB engine.

Keep in mind that pCARS FFB is 95% pure Seta Tyre Model contact patch force fed through the suspension solver and into the steering rack on the RAW preset (the final 5% are down to hardware characteristics).

The other presets take those forces and shape them a little using a compressor, because they are designed for wheels where the dynamic range is not true to life.

I believe the minimum requirement for RAW is pretty much a CSW 2.5 (preferably with the lightest possible rim, as the FFB motors need to fight the wheel rim inertia otherwise, which will detract from the response and the dynamic detail).

We also have a surface noise generator block available that can be mixed into the FFB signal chain on tracks where the track mesh is billiard table flat (for polygon budget reasons). It isn't turned on in any of the default FFB flavours, so it's something that you can only use with a custom FFB flavour.

 

[Msportdan]

interesting ermo. so your suggesting that the raw setting is really for DD wheels, and wheels like my t300 better off using other settings.

this would be cool if this was explained in game as it is now the info descriptions are pretty much useless.

 

[ermo]

interesting ermo. so your suggesting that the raw setting is really for DD wheels, and wheels like my t300 better off using other settings.

this would be cool if this was explained in game as it is now the info descriptions are pretty much useless.

Yes, your T300 is a textbook example of why the Informative preset exists. Keep gain at 100 (all but the highest of the high end wheels should do this I belive) and adjust volume instead.

On the Informative preset, Tone sweeps Mz (0) to Fy (100) dominant and FX can enhance the differential torque produced under braking if one wheel locks up (and thus produces less braking force than the other) -- this will make the wheel pull more in the direction of the wheel that isn't locked up.

50 Tone and 50 FX should be considered "what the suspension geometry dictates" -- i.e. "pure rack".

Also keep in mind that the "Tone" and "FX" dials are just that: Dials with a name dymoed onto them. They have no inherent meaning and IIRC, they are hooked up to different FFB blocks in the Informative vs. Immersive presets.

In reality, they are just knobs that can be hooked up to whatever you want to be able to hook them up to (if you start fiddling with custom presets, the ability to change things on the fly is super useful for testing and dialing in).

 

[Andy_J]

EDIT: From the wookie himself (source):
"Very soon now

"

I think that's just the PS4 patch?

 

[ermo]

I think that's just the PS4 patch?

My understanding is that SMS likes to qualify major patches concurrently, so the XBOX and PC patches are probably due to land soon-ish too if I'm not mistaken...

As to what Ian meant by 'soon', your guess is as good as mine.

 

[Msportdan]

Yes, your T300 is a textbook example of why the Informative preset exists. Keep gain at 100 (all but the highest of the high end wheels should do this I belive) and adjust volume instead.

On the Informative preset, Tone sweeps Mz (0) to Fy (100) dominant and FX can enhance the differential torque produced under braking if one wheel locks up (and thus produces less braking force than the other) -- this will make the wheel pull more in the direction of the wheel that isn't locked up.

50 Tone and 50 FX should be considered "what the suspension geometry dictates" -- i.e. "pure rack".

Also keep in mind that the "Tone" and "FX" dials are just that: Dials with a name dymoed onto them. They have no inherent meaning and IIRC, they are hooked up to different FFB blocks in the Informative vs. Immersive presets.

In reality, they are just knobs that can be hooked up to whatever you want to be able to hook them up to (if you start fiddling with custom presets, the ability to change things on the fly is super useful for testing and dialing in).

thank you and if you had anything to do with the testing of the ffb in PC2 , thanks and well done! Its miles better than number one!

 

[ermo]

FWIW, I use informative with Gain at 100, Tone and FX at 50 and Volume at around 35 on my G27. I keep meaning to upgrade, but life keeps getting in the way.

Most people will likely benefit from similar settings.

I really want to dig into how AC manages to be so light and yet communicative on my G27 around TDC with the NSX road car mod.

I suspect that AC adds some spice on top of a "pure rack" in terms of tugging ever so slightly on my wheel if I load up my outside front wheel under braking. Something to look into I guess...

EDIT: Forgot to specify that I meant "load up under braking".

 

[Andy_J]

FWIW, I use informative with Gain at 100, Tone and FX at 50 and Volume at around 35 on my G27. I keep meaning to upgrade, but life keeps getting in the way.

Most people will likely benefit from similar settings.

Ermo
I have a question for you (and anyone else for that matter). My default FFB after install for my T500RS in Pcars2 is Gain at 100, fx and tone at 50. But Volume is already at 100 for informative, raw and immersion settings. Is that correct or has there been a problem with my install? I have not changed anything myself.
Do you know if that is the default setting for a T500RS?
Thanks
Andy

 

[ermo]

Ermo
I have a question for you (and anyone else for that matter). My default FFB after install for my T500RS in Pcars2 is Gain at 100, fx and tone at 50. But Volume is already at 100 for informative, raw and immersion settings. Is that correct or has there been a problem with my install? I have not changed anything myself.
Do you know if that is the default setting for a T500RS?
Thanks
Andy

Keep in mind that both the Informative and the Immersive presets come with the autoscaler turned on, such that IF Gain=100 and Volume=100 with a particular car+track combo result in clipping (switch to live telemetry mode and look at the amount of samples landing in the rightmost 'FFB bucket' which is the amount of samples that clip), THEN the autoscaler will automatically adjust the volume down from 100 while you are driving in order to move the signal out of the clipping range (it won't autoscale during corners in order to prevent weird wheel force fluctuation which has nothing to do with vehicle dynamics simulation).

For RAW, it is no surprise to me personally that both Gain and Volume are set to 100, as there is relatively little chance of injury* with the T500 RS at full tilt if I'm not mistaken?

In any case I should probably do a little digging on this.

*: For some of the high end DD wheels, operator injury is apparently a real concern with misadjusted FFB settings.

 

[Andy_J]

Keep in mind that both the Informative and the Immersive presets come with the autoscaler turned on, such that IF Gain=100 and Volume=100 with a particular car+track combo result in clipping (switch to live telemetry mode and look at the amount of samples landing in the rightmost 'FFB bucket' which is the amount of samples that clip), THEN the autoscaler will automatically adjust the volume down from 100 while you are driving in order to move the signal out of the clipping range (it won't autoscale during corners in order to prevent weird wheel force fluctuation which has nothing to do with vehicle dynamics simulation).

So if I understand you right, using informative, drive a GT3 car and track and change the HUD to show live telemetry? This should make the auto scaler adjust the ffb for my wheel? Is that correct?
Cheers

 

[ermo]

So if I understand you right, using informative, drive a GT3 car and track and change the HUD to show live telemetry? This should make the auto scaler adjust the ffb for my wheel? Is that correct?
Cheers

It will autoscale regardless of HUD settings on Informative or Immersive presets.

It's just that if you switch to the telemetry HUD, you'll be able to *see* the clipping data yourself and indirectly see how the FFB volume is toned down, because over time you'll see less samples in the clipping bucket and more samples landing in the remaining buckets.

The bucket columns should be interpreted like this:

| 0-20% | 20-40% | 40-60% | 60-80% | 80-100% | 100+% (clipping) |

You can use this to set Volume correctly -- just tweak the volume, drive a lap or two and check where the FFB samples land in the buckets. If there are too many to the left side and you prefer a stronger feel, you can safely turn up the volume. If there are too many to the right side, you either turn down the volume yourself or the autoscaler will do it for you dynamically (I don't think it will change the setting you configured in the menu however).

 

[Andy_J]

If there are too many to the right side, you either turn down the volume yourself or the autoscaler will do it for you dynamically (I don't think it will change the setting you configured in the menu however).

I haven't adjusted any settings in the menu though. It was already at volume 100 on all settings. I don't really understand all this so I'll just leave it as is, default.

ps, on another note, do you know if Depth of Field can be turned off with a command switch? No not the helmet DoF. The whole DoF including replays. Most of race sims have an option to turn it off in the menu.

Ps, thanks for your help.

 

[ermo]

I haven't adjusted any settings in the menu though. It was already at volume 100 on all settings. I don't really understand all this so I'll just leave it as is, default.

Keep in mind that you can edit your FFB settings in the pause menu while you are out on track.

As I mentioned earlier, most people (except possibly CSW/DD wheel owners) should probably keep Gain at 100 to keep the full FFB motor torque range available for the pC2 FFB engine.

Adjusting volume like I have below can have quite a big impact on the driving experience -- I find that with the FFB Volume at 30, I can really feel the track and what the car does, while keeping a feeling of heft in the steering. If I go to 25, the steering is too light for my taste, and if I go to 35, the steering feels too heavy and drowns out some of the surface detail I prefer to have available.

A few images illustrating what I'm on about (note how my FFB when cornering is mostly in buckets 3 and 4, corresponding to the 40-60% and 60-80% strength range -- this gives my FFB motors "breathing room" for spikes and whatnot):

ps, on another note, do you know if Depth of Field can be turned off with a command switch? No not the helmet DoF. The whole DoF including replays. Most of race sims have an option to turn it off in the menu.

Not that I know of. I can ask around internally, but my impression is that people have their plates full so I wouldn't expect something like this to land in pC2 until later (if ever)...

Ps, thanks for your help.

You're welcome.

 

[Andy_J]

Keep in mind that you can edit your FFB settings in the pause menu while you are out on track.

Adjusting volume like I have below can have quite a big impact on the driving experience -- I find that with the FFB Volume at 30, I can really feel the track and what the car does, while keeping a feeling of heft in the steering. If I go to 25, the steering is too light for my taste, and if I go to 35, the steering feels too heavy and drowns out some of the surface detail I prefer to have available.

I don't know what wheel you are using Ermo but my t500 is useless with volume below 85. Been experimenting all evening. If I drop it to 50 even it feels very loose and flat without any strength etc.

Any body else out there with a T500? What are your settings?

 

[ermo]

I don't know what wheel you are using Ermo but my t500 is useless with volume below 85. Been experimenting all evening. If I drop it to 50 even it feels very loose and flat without any strength etc.

Any body else out there with a T500? What are your settings?

I'm on a G27.

Is your thrustmaster CP set up to let the wheel use 100% of its FFB motor torque? For my G27, Gain will override my profiler settings (Gain = 100 is the same as 100% Profiler strength).

Don't know if this also applies to the Thrustmaster CP tbh.

In any case, try Volume at 85/90/95/100 and see which you prefer. As I said, relatively small tweaks can make quite a difference in perception for me.

 

[Brandon Wright]

I don't know what wheel you are using Ermo but my t500 is useless with volume below 85. Been experimenting all evening. If I drop it to 50 even it feels very loose and flat without any strength etc.

Any body else out there with a T500? What are your settings?

Depends on what you have your gain set to in your TM profiler probably. If you have your profiler set to 60 or 70 gain you'll probably need to crank it up in the game more. I have a T300 and my profiler gain is set to 90%, in-game my volume is usually around 55-65 depending on the car. And yes, if I turned mine down to 30 then there would basically be no FFB or weight to the wheel.

 

[Andy_J]

Depends on what you have your gain set to in your TM profiler probably. If you have your profiler set to 60 or 70 gain you'll probably need to crank it up in the game more. I have a T300 and my profiler gain is set to 90%, in-game my volume is usually around 55-65 depending on the car. And yes, if I turned mine down to 30 then there would basically be no FFB or weight to the wheel.

My gain is set at 60 as recommended by most for the t500. Gain in game is at 100.

Thanks.

 

[Brandon Wright]

My gain is set at 60 as recommended by most for the t500. Gain in game is at 100.

Thanks.

That's probably the reason then. Not that that's good or bad, just means when you're starting at such a low level you're going to have to turn the in-game settings up higher compared to someone using a higher gain. I've always found the recommended gain values on the Thrustmaster wheels way too light. I believe 70 is what's recommended for the T300 but if I set it at that my wheel feels broken so I go with 90. I don't get any clipping though, so all good as far as I'm concerned. If I had my profiler gain set at 60 or 70 I'd have to crank the in-game Volume way up too.