G27 holding back my enjoyment?

[dcully]

Hi all, im a long time simracer since back in the GPL VROC days.
Ive always considered myself a casual simracer but i have played them all,i never had a proper cockpit setup just a desktop with wheel attached, it suits me as i play a lot of other types of games on PC.
My sims of choice are R3E,ACC,AC,AMS [iracing if it ever drops in price] but lately im just not getting the buzz i once had and i find myself playing other types of games even more and the wheel detached from the desk more and more.
This got me thinking is my cheapo sim gear ie G27 partly to blame, i look on with envy at all the amazing quality sim gear available but i always find i put my money into the PC hardware for top performance with all games and just buy a cheapish wheel to scratch that simracing itch again mainyl because i play all sorts of games not just racing sims.
The net result is im considering a more expensive wheel if there really is a huge difference say compared to a G27?
DD wheels are just out of the question but im thinking something around the €500 mark might not be a bad choice, again if its a big difference compared to a G27?
Thought appreciated, thanks for reading

 

[RasmusP]

I was about to stop racing for a while, barely drove at all apart from the occasional RD club race once a month.
I felt it was down to always fighting against the mushy and weak g27 while having to be sensitive and careful to spot the details which are well hidden.

I thought screw it, I love simracing but something kills it for me.
Ordered the fanatec csw 2.5 Xbox one bundle. 14 days to test it in the EU (if you very carefully use it).
Put it on my wheelstand v2 pro, plugged the csl elite 2-pedals in and was madly in love.
You don't fight to spot details and stirr this mushy mess. You simply steer, get really awesome feedback, feel a lot more and fight the car on the limit.
No deadzone, no ffb tweaking, no notch passing the center, no rattling.
It basically drives like a real road car.

Of course it was 715€ with shipping but so worth it!

I now drive about 1-2 hours per week and although my simracing itch is still not that big, it's always pure enjoyment when I start to drive.
I also can't stop once I got behind the wheel.

 

[asteroulis]

Your humble gear is not the problem. You obviously are not a gear head enough to spend countless hours in front of your wheel trying to beat your times, improve a specific corner and so on. You like racing games, but it's gaming at the end for you, that's why you play other stuff.

Now maybe if you had a steady cockpit to begin with, it wouldn't be that of a hassle to start the engine and drive and maybe you'd spend more time driving. Then you would probably enjoy adding some fancier gear down the road, and would enjoy both building a nice racing rig, and you would enjoy driving more. But there is a chance that you would still lose interest down the road.

People that have amazing rigs here either have so much money that they have also a nice rig within their gear collection, or so much passion that spend every penny at their passion. But there are far more people in here that don't have proper gear to show off, but spend countless hours burning tyres online and enjoy every single second out on the track.

So, my advice would be to build a rig that it's easy to just jump in and drive, to be ergonomically correct for long sessions, and then start upgrading the rest of the gear.
And the most important is to take part in an organised league and stop wasting time in running laps around various sims, cars, tracks. Dedicate to something. Then you'll get seriously hooked up.

And don't feel disappointed if you're just not into this. There are so many things in life for everyone to enjoy.

 

[RCHeliguy]

I'm not a gearhead. I play maybe once a week, but I have a pretty advanced rig. It didn't change my enthusiasm at all. I enjoy it when I use it and appreciate how it feels, but I don't feel like playing more because of it.

I've had many hobbies over the years. Sometimes it's time to try something new. It's normal. Sometimes you just need a breather and come back with enthusiasm.

A new purchase can add a bit of short term excitement, but then it passes and you are back where you started.

 

[RasmusP]

Reading the other two posts, I think you need to find out if you like simracing but can't enjoy it because you dislike how the g27 feels or if you'd just want a better wheel to spark some excitement from it.

For me, I knew I wanted to race more. But the feel and rattling of the g27 killed my enjoyment to drive.
So it was pretty clear that if I would get rid of the enjoyment-killer, I would drive more often.

The difference is:
Do you need to free your fun with better gear or do you want to create not really existing fun.

 

[Riblo]

I have a good old G27 but i drive everyday and i still enjoy It
And i know people still using the older Logitech wheels too
It's all about how you feel your diving experience
IMHO the G27 Is still a good wheel but i know a T300 or TSPC are way Better not to mention Fanatec wheel that are Simply Amazing
If your G27 Is suited or not to you Is totally in your feelings
My suggestion Is to try another wheel and then decide what Is Better for you

 

[manu68]

I am still using my old G25.
If you read some other thread from me, you maybe have seen than I consider too changing my wheel.
More than the wheel, I think the pedals are maybe the weakest point.

I decided to go first for a cockpit in order to have a nice racing position.
Then I will change the wheel and pedals.

BUT, I not want to ignore that the G25 has been once a reference wheel, à big step forward at that time, and that an alien can make incredible laptimes with it.
Mine is very old, but works as at first day. I must be mentioned too.

I will change one day for something better, just because there is no question that there is now better wheel available, but I stay convinced that the Logitech are and remains excellent wheel for simracing, even for daily users.

 

[Sharpe77]

This happened to me. I had a g27 with a Leo bodner cable for my peddles that I set up at my desk. I was racing once or twice a week and going through what you describe. Then I had a chance the pick the Thrustmaster TS-PC. I hummed and hahd about it but took the plunge. It reignited the spark for me. It was a world of difference to me and I still use my g27 pedals because of the Leo Bodner cable. Ill pull the g27 wheel out if I want to rally race. I would say take the plunge.

 

[Jason Mullin]

The net result is im considering a more expensive wheel if there really is a huge difference say compared to a G27?

Honest, nice me says...
Big enough to enhance the driving feel, not big enough to enhance your passion for sim racing.
I made the typical jumps, DFGT, G27, CSR, CSL elite each phase provided a better experience.
But, the sims are the same sims you've been playing and the G27 is still a great wheel.
I only sim race though aside from the occasional round of red dead redemption 2 so I have a dedicated rig.
Sounds like you have a happy gaming routine. A $500 wheel won't change that.

Evil sim racing elitist me says...
Yes it will drastically improve your gaming and I want everyone to spend loads of cash to enhance our numbers and hardware choices.

 

[seamount0]

Ordered the fanatec csw 2.5 Xbox one bundle. 14 days to test it in the EU (if you very carefully use it).
Put it on my wheelstand v2 pro, plugged the csl elite 2-pedals in and was madly in love.
.

To better understand, if i buy it from fanatec, and i do not like it, i have 14 days to send it back to them with a full refund?
One more question: can wheelstand pro manage the weight of csw 2.5? I think you bought wheelstand pro configured for g27 ... is the drilling already fine for CSW 2.5 and csl pedals?

 

[Dan Costa]

Had the G25 from 2007 up until 2016. 9 Years. Switched to the T300RS Alcantara, and yeah, its what you would expect. I can't believe what a DD wheel must feel like, but the jump G25 -> T300RS was much bigger than what I expected.

I'm just going to say it. The G25 didn't just held back some enjoyment. It held back speed as well.

 

[RasmusP]

To better understand, if i buy it from fanatec, and i do not like it, i have 14 days to send it back to them with a full refund?
One more question: can wheelstand pro manage the weight of csw 2.5? I think you bought wheelstand pro configured for g27 ... is the drilling already fine for CSW 2.5 and csl pedals?

Within the EU you have the "EU online buying laws", giving you 14 days "testing as much as is needed to know what you bought".
So you can test the base, let all stickers attached etc.
Thing is, every company rules differently about "what is needed testing".

But generally, just be careful and do as less harm to everything as possible is always fine

Where are you located? I don't know the laws for outside EU...

I bought the wheelstand v2 pro deluxe (afaik that's just the normal one for 120€, lol) for the g27, yes.
The mounting plate fits the csw 2.5 perfectly fine. Has the correct holes!

Pedals though... I put the 2 pedal csl elite on the tube frame and it pushed against the big tube at the front.
Cable fixers keep it tightly to the tubes so it's fixed.
In theory you could pull the pedals backwards but.. Why

The wheelstand is wobbling a lot but it's still totally fine. Gives some immersion, lol.
Left/right it's sturdy enough but at full ffb the wheelstand will left one corner from the floor.

Overall I wouldn't say it's well suited but it's totally doable and feels good enough

 

[RCHeliguy]

I did what you are talking about and I got the Fanatec mount for the shift and mounted the hand brake to the shift. Notice the strap that was necessary so that the shift didn't get pulled forward when using the brake.

It will work, but it's not ideal in terms of letting you feel the FFB. The pedals bolted up fine.
This is my rig version 0.5 that I used with a folding chair.

 

[Emery]

The Logitech gear-driven wheels went from "the standard" to "less than desireable" the day the Thrustmaster T-500 came out, only most of us didn't realize it until we realized how much FFB clipping was happening and then the rattling in rF2 drove us nuts.

I hung on to my G25 until 2015, when I switched to a Fanatec CSW v2. Haven't ever wanted to use a Logitech wheel since then.

Is a Logitech holding back your enjoyment? If you believe it does, then it is. For myself, once I properly tuned the G25, it was clear it was no longer the right wheel for me.

 

[R Soul]

It might be a good idea to see if there's anyone living nearby* who has one of the newer wheels (especially Direct Drive) and asking for a chance to visit and and try it out.

*It's up to you to decide how far is too far.

 

[Case_]

I went from a DFGT to T300. Was it a big difference? Well, in certain aspects, yes. The wheel feels more realistic and less like a plastic game controller.
Did it make me enjoy racing more? Apart from the better feeling...not really, no.

I think it's all too easy to fall into the trap of thinking a better (=more expensive) gear will make you enjoy your hobby (doesn't have to be simracing) more and make you better at it...and it's true to a certain degree, but probably to a far lesser degree than you might think before you acquire that better gear.

 

[Fernando Deutsch]

For simracing I have used most Logitech wheels, from the MOMO Force, to the G25 and G27, so I am very familiar with these wheels.

Finally this weekend my Thrustmaster TX arrived. I am simply blown away by the force feedback experience. The force, the smoothness and the level of detail. I am still getting adapted to it and I am currently a bit slower, but I have to say that is considerable easier for me to catch slides and feel the limit of grip.

I believe the G27 is still a decent wheel. It provides some good force feedback, but requires a bit of tweak on some sims (like the use of LUT on AC and ACC), while the TX seems to be just straight plug and play.

At the moment I am using the G27 pedals. Did not bother to try the horrible pedals the TX comes with.

 

[girarcat]

I'm quite new to what can be called proper "sim racing".
I got my G25 when I was 15, that is 10 years ago. Until now, I had been playing every now and then on different racing games, initially not sims at all, but these last few years I've been playing more serious sims, first Gran Turismo and then Project Cars 1 and 2. Obviously I realized the kind of virtual racing I liked were simulators and not arcade games. I kept on playing irregularly these games with my G25 attached to my parents' home office desk. Sometimes I played for a couple of months and then just got hold of any other type of videogame and quit playing racing games for months.

During the last year I hadn't even played any racing game, however since now I have my own house, and I have the space and the money, I said "what the heck I've always wanted a proper sim rig" so a couple months ago I took the decision to start building my racing simulator.

I bought a Simetik cockpit with a OMP bucket seat which fit perfectly with my G25 and my old FullHD 37" TV and started playing again. The first thing I did was to properly set up the G25 for the first time, using Jack Spade's settings and OMG this just feels so great! I love racing around laser scanned tracks on Project Cars 2! I've never tried anything different from my G25, but for me it feels amazing, much better than how it used to feel like with the standard logitech and PC2 setup. Jack Spade's settings have really made a huge difference for me.

According to what I can read here, it really looks like Fanatec or Thrustmaster wheels are much better than the G25, but since I've never tried them, for the moment the G25 feels all right to me.

It's still way too early for me to say if I will keep on being hooked up for months/years, but for the moment I'm really enjoying my new cockpit and I'm constantly looking forward to using it.

If you have the space I would first get a proper cockpit before upgrading your wheel. The G25/27 can still be great if properly tunned and if you have not had any experience with better wheels which could bias your driving feeling.

In the upcoming months if I'm still racing quite often I will consider upgrading either the wheel/pedals or the screen (or maybe both).

 

[LagunaSeca]

Allow me provide some different points of view.

First, the things that hold back your enjoyment might not be a G27, but a dedicated rig. I am now racing on a dedicated 80/20 rig with DD and all other stuff, but I started from a G27 clamped on a table just like you. The things that annoy me the most was that the desk position was not right for me but my desk was not adjustable. Also, my pedals moved, especially when I need to drive a manual and use the clutch. Also the hassle of cleaning up every time I need to use my desk to work and write was just painful. That is also why the dishwasher exists, to let people enjoy the good part of cooking and save them from the pain of cleaning up.

Therefore I suggested you to buy a used dedicated rig and play gt sport on a ps4, if you have a TV. Let's say you do have a TV and buy a used rig for around 100 euro. This removes all the hassle. Now if you want to play, you can just sit down, turn on the TV and drive. Your pedal won't move when you push it and most annoyance is gone. Do you feel like you are enjoying it more and willing to drive more? Ask yourself these questions then you can decide what you want to do next.

PS: If you don't have a PS4, why not buy one? You can easily find a good deal (or even better price if you don't mind a used one) plus a lot of PS exclusive games like Bloodborne. Oh man I love soul series and I platinum all of them. You mentioned you like play other kinds of games. Give Bloodborne a try!

PPS: I don't suggest buying a used wheel base as it is something that was likely "abused" in the past. However, buying a used rig and a PS4 is different. A rig is just some pieces of metal and there is no complicated electronics. You can spot the flaws easily. PS4 is just a console and it sits on the TV shelf once setup is complete. It is less likely you will buy a malfunctioned PS4.

PPPS: GTS might not be the most realistic sim out there but it is well polished with free updates and pretty decent graphics. (I don't want to get into the debate of simcade stuff, just some no true Scotsman fallacy..) It is not my favorite but I really enjoyed playing it, especially with friends.

PPPPS: NEVER underestimate the damage a small hassle can make to your hobby. The period I raced the least is the time when I bought a CSL Elite and a half a rig. (A rig with only wheel and pedals) Every time I want to play on PC, I need to move my heavy rig from the corner of the room. After a while I realized, F**k it, I am going ALL IN. I finally built a full 80/20 rig and I started to drive more again. Even true love can be deeply damaged by hassle. Not only your simracing hobby, but also other things like marriage. Every year there are tons of couple break up just because they live in different cities. Didn't they love each other? Of course they love each other. Did they betray each other? No, they are loyal as always. Why did they break up after all? HASSLE, the hassle of not being around, the hassle of booking a flight every time they want to meet, the hassle of time difference if they live in different continent. You wake up at the moment she is going to sleep. Even soul mates cannot stand this.


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The second is to try something real. I am actually one of those people who went from real driving to sim racing. To me, I play sim racing because I cannot afford to race. Trackday is crazy expensive. I often need to pay for brake replacement, maintenance and many other things. That is my road car. If you own something like a radical SR3 or GT3 car, the engine needs to be rebuilt every 8000-10000 miles. (Some fun fact. NSX GT3's engine needs a refreshment around every 8000 miles since it is turbocharged and is more complicated. AMG GT3 still has the old 6.2 NA V8 so the engine will last over 10000 miles. The car itself is much cheaper than the NSX! (NSX GT3 a little less than 600K USD, AMG a little above 400K USD.) You needs a LOOOOTTT of spare parts as well. Also, good helmet, suits, gloves are all crazy expensive and you need to pay your engineer....

But I freaking love driving in circles and wasting gas. Engine roar makes feel peaceful. The complicated world is leaving me alone for a moment to enjoy myself when I was on track. I felt utterly alive. That is why I seek something close to track driving even I am not on a track.

With all that being said, you can try to find some karting opportunity around you. Sign up and just drive. Do you love driving in circles? Do you get happiness just because you clip the apex correctly? If so, then you have a racing heart and the hardware is preventing you from expressing and practicing your love.

If you can't find a karting place. No problem. One thing that normal street driving cant provide is the visceral feeling and the sense of connectedness. This can all be corrected by a motorcycle! Rent a motorcycle, find a twisty road and ride. Ask yourself the same questions. Motorcycle guys and car guys have a lot in common and I often find myself attracted by things like motoGP. Give it a try!

 

[bsmooth]

I went a different direction, and I also have driven since the GPL days. I went the TSW route with no Force feedback. It mounts to my desk, and my pedals are setup upside down under my desk with them hanging down like in a normal car. I also built up a small wooden stand to put them on so they don't move at all.
But the small approx. 180 rotation is what drives me crazy. I've had the setup for probably 15 years or more. Its gone from analog to digital USB hookup.
What would be my best upgrade to get to a better more rotation wheel ?
I don't need Force feedback just more rotation and durability>
Any suggestions ?