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FSR situation

Ondrej Kuncman

@Simberia
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Jan 2, 2010
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117
J.E. Saxen:
Anyway, this thread went off-topic. Discussions about FSR future are carried on internally in club forums at moment.

This is exactly the problem. If you wanna ''discuss'' only with careless and often clueless license owners then FSR is not gonna make it. Pretending that ISR club is the real deal where big decisions are taken among superior big FSR leaders is just wrong. Transparency was one of your goals as a president. If FSR problems are kept in private as always, nobody is gonna do a thing because team owners won't. It is critically important to make drivers and FSR members aware of how FSR has been functioning and as it will not be able to continue to function. As David pointed out, teams are the reason for this situation. And as I have been saying for years teams are what FSR makes FSR, its strongest asset as well as biggest weaknes. Without teams there is no FSR.
The problem is, half of the teams are inactive, practically dead. Best example is FTS. They have been doing nothing in the past several years except of press releases. It got that far that they became another team of Netrex. FSR has been surviving with several teams having sister teams, which then further decreases the amount of people and teams involved.

Since 2011 FSR has been mostly led and taken care of by its presidents and a few dedicated directors. With a few temporary exceptions, there has been no other help. Now, try to run a league of 100 people with 2 or 3 people. Try to keep that up for years. That is why FSR presidents quit after 1 year. It is impossible to do it for longer without any help. Last 3 presidents have been largely competent - they had to be. Understand server side of things, track development, mod creation, rf2 (rf2) file system and so on. Without this FSR would have been over by now. Now squire or mundy are running for president. Does anyone honestly believe that FSR can survive that? I don't.

In an ideal world teams would contribute to FSR by taking care of things, this has been suggested in the past and this is the only way there is any chance. Sadly this is incredibly hard to achieve, as I said most of the teams that have been here for years don't care and have no people besides drivers involved and let's face it, current generation of kid drivers just wanna race mostly.

David said the effort must come from team owners to improve FSR. I will say effort must come from team owners to allow FSR to survive.


David Greco said:
Ondrej, you are a guy that made a team, win so much, you can definitely manage things. Smart, can write, or, should I say, better, sell things. Why don't you run for president?

A few points to make. Firstly, it would make FSR look very ridiculous to have the troll in charge. Obviously in such situation I would stop trolling, but considering this year it is not an option.

Secondly, I am quite busy and besides writing some bunch of bs I don't have time to take care of something like this. This is the same reason I quit PM. If I cannot dedicate 100% effort to something, I won't do it. I am not designed to underperform. I am designed to win at whatever I do and with such very limited time, we could see it with Saxen and Kunkel last 2 years. It is impossible to move the league forward. Obviously without the first point and if I had time for it I would consider it. I have some pretty good ideas and I am totally sure I would improve FSR, but it is not an option. As always I advise and suggest, which is what I hadbeen doing mostly before this season.

Anyway people must wake up, FSR needs a group of reliable, uncorrupt, experienced and knowledgeable people. Sadly most of these are gone or retiring after this season and this situation I fear is terminal for FSR. The same people have kept it going for 2 3 more years than it was supposed to, but now?
 

Victor Ivanov

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Jan 24, 2011
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So if you can't dedicate 100% from your time to FSR as a president, you can always help FSR with ideas and other activities. And that's of course only if FSR wants to be helped.
 

Ondrej Kuncman

@Simberia
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Jan 2, 2010
Messages
117
That's what I have been doing. This isn't about me anyway, not the topic. This is about FSR and what it will be, or won't be next year and the situation is much more dramatic than average person thinks.
 

Victor Ivanov

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Well average person doesn't have a clue what's going on in FSR because of all private conversations in ISR Club. It would be nice if someone pulls out some actual facts about the situation and how dramatic it is because by your comments we can only guess.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Apr 29, 2010
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696
Honestly not much is going on in the ISR Club because most of them don't really care, but it's not something new because it has been like this since quite a long time.
 

Ondrej Kuncman

@Simberia
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Jan 2, 2010
Messages
117
Exactly and only presidents and 1 or 2 other people have been doing anything and now with all these people gone in a month...
 

Bram Hengeveld

RaceDepartment Founder
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Dec 26, 2006
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46,851
Very good post until you reach this part and the true Ondrej shows again:

Firstly, it would make FSR look very ridiculous to have the troll in charge. Obviously in such situation I would stop trolling, but considering this year it is not an option.

Why not just stop the trolling and actually contribute something constructive as you have successfully tried to (partly) achieve above, as there isn't much wrong with the content of your post. On the contrary its spot on if you take it much more broader than just FSR and replace it with sim racing.

Sim Racing used to be a team effort where a group of people organized stuff for others to enjoy. Nowadays from a group effort it has become something very individual and when volunteers are needed most people look the other way saying "i have no time, i don't have the knowledge, <insert more excuses>".

Strangely the same kind of people do have time to call themselves a "youtuber".

I miss the time where people dedicated free time and other just said "thank you". As thats all thats needed sometimes: a little appreciation for the countless of hours of work that admins, moderators, club and league organizers do".

The FSR Presidents I've worked with during the last couple of years all had one thing in common: sheer dedication, and they should be praised for keeping things going and going day after day. A "regular" league already sucks up heaps of time, but I can't imagine how much hours go into an FSR series with its custom build cars, tracks and broadcasts.
 
Joined
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199
David Dominguez said:
It's hard to sell more when you get people for certain roles and they fail on their assignments, for example Press Directors.

This is one of the problems, and in fact knew you would respond in this way, so imagine how predictable you are. If you ask the vice president about responsabilities, and he excuse himself by blaming others, it is a problem.

I was the press officer David? I do not know, I asked everyone, directly to the president, no one answered me.

I know just writing articles in ACE. There was a race where I could not, and asked someone in the press to write it for me What was the result? There was no article that race. Cobb had written an article another run ACE, I sent in skype group to publish it, nobody did it. I proposed ideas to make a post-race analysis WC, all you seemed okay, I did and I was spent. It was never published. I asked permission to post on the forum, twitter, everyone fell silent once more.

Given this attitude I stopped doing things...I was the press officer? It didn't seem. Normally the difficulties come from outside (time, inconvenience) and I like to deal with them, but when they come from inside I can't do more.

If someone answer me these questions, if I give permission for these things, some freedom to create or find my own team, I would be happy to contribute to news, articles, etc. As stated above, I think teams are the essence of the league, but instead of going every team for himself, bring things to the league, and that should contribute Press FSR. There is a hotlap twister on his channel? It is published in the twitter of the FSR. There is a rumor that Gosbee will create their own team next year? An article that is made. Morand suffers a cold? There is talk of this. In short, if we want people talk about FSR, we have to give them things to talk about it.
 

Ondrej Kuncman

@Simberia
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Jan 2, 2010
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117
To Bram:

I have been contributing and trying to contribute way more than most people here. I can write a long article about how FSR functions and how these self proclaimed superior leaders ignore others, but that doesn't solve anything. Just an example, I have keep posting FSR pre-race post race on facebook last years. When this years president got in charge, first thing he did was remove my facebook access. Result: rarely now are broadcasts and pre-race information posted. And this really sums it all up. Some people think they are so superior they refuse ideas and help of others.

And that is slightly connected to the individualism you mentioned. you are absolutely right. All these pseudo simracing competitions such as that arcade PS4 stuff its all about an individual. Iracing is about individual, where only individuals get prizes. That is where I see strength of FSR, there are still a few teams that are teams. Most of them don't function as teams very successfully but they are still a group of people trying to reach a shared goal and FSR administration should be exactly that. A team, not an individual person and people involved in helping FSR should be able to cooperate, communicate and organize stuff together. The example from Adrian is quite typical as well. There is no management, no organization.
 

Georg Winter

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And its a problem too, if a vice-president fight a race director in public forum. Admins should speak always with one voice. Now people start to talk about that instead of the good side of FSR...
 

Bram Hengeveld

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When it comes to you the Trolling > Contributing. I can't take you seriously if you offend other people on purpose while trying to bring a message across. I am pretty sure if you give feedback and suggestions in a constructive way you get much more things done.

Trolling is deliberately throwing sand in the engine = never works.

I like the non-trolling Ondrej a lot better :thumbsup:
 

Ho3n3r

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When it comes to you the Trolling > Contributing. I can't take you seriously if you offend other people on purpose while trying to bring a message across. I am pretty sure if you give feedback and suggestions in a constructive way you get much more things done.

Trolling is deliberately throwing sands in the engine = never works.

I like the non-trolling Ondrej a lot better :thumbsup:

Agreed. We can agree with some of the points Ondrej makes if it comes without the big layer of ******** that normally comes with it. Today was the first time I actually read 2 of his posts through totally, because it had some compelling arguments.
 

Ondrej Kuncman

@Simberia
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Jan 2, 2010
Messages
117
It is amazing how one day I can get 20 dislikes and other day 20 likes isn't it. To stay serious, I posted stuff above, because the solution to the situation is very complicated and cannot be handled by just a couple of people, whole community would need to contribute to FSR reviving itself and staying alive for next years. Bram, I did offer before this season to do stuff, but I was ignored by President. President then was left with nobody and as I had no access to TOA I couldn't do anything - back to the first point. All decision are made internally by a small group of people and they often ignore other suggestions and that is a very uneahlthy way as it demotivates people who would be otherwising willing to contribute.
 
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You can be as constructive as you want but at the end of the day you need someone who gets things done. I remember countless big talks, proposals, ideas but it's all pointless if you don't have the people to do them.
 

Ondrej Kuncman

@Simberia
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Jan 2, 2010
Messages
117
Agreed. At this point we are past the big ideas, now its about keeping the league reasonably competitive, without fails and mainly alive with moderate interest created. Anything beyond that is dreaming.
 

Ondrej Kuncman

@Simberia
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Jan 2, 2010
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117
I know why that is obviously, it is just amusing how easy it is to influence people. That is not to say that the above is a social experiment. I am very serious.
 
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