F1 2013 FPS Bug Confirmed - Higher FPS = Faster Laptimes

[Mark Saunders]

Hi guys,

Edit: I'm only going to post my own findings not others as it's not fair if they don't want to be drawn into it...

Right so I've heard this circulating for a little while, sorry for the grandiose title but I think it's important for leagues on here to know what is going on. I spent my time on Saturday after release completing scenarios from which I had the top 10 scores for 15/20 of them. Fantastic I thought, I'm sorted for on-line already. Then Saturday evening during a pre-season league race I noticed I would use full KERS and DRS in Nurburgring (not the highest speed of tracks) and watch people *still* pull away from me. Sunday, 5 lap races and noticed I averaged about 1.5 seconds a lap slower than a couple of people, 2.7 seconds around one track...I managed only 2 victories after around 20 races compared to my 48% victory rating in 2012. Tonight I managed 6 out of 6 victories...

Many wont know me... I'm a twitchy paranoid driver who ultimately isn't as fast as some but I'm ridiculously consistent hence the concern I had; I thought people were hiding set-ups but they just reported they were using 2012 set-ups (sorry to those whom I doubted for a brief time).

I tried numerous hosts with the same people, tried lowering settings, extreme set-ups, all to no avail. Then I stopped recording and noticed a small reduction in the gap but reported it to people as inconclusive after complaining to them all night, noting that a couple of tenths wasn't enough to draw conclusions... Today I get home from work and Shaki and Starplayer both informed me about the FPS bug.

The basic premise is, the higher your FPS, the faster you go. This is the opposite of the rumours circulating around 2012. Of course in 2012 it wasn't feasible that you could run at 20 fps to test the theory and still be accurate but now it's reversed you can all test it. Go into on-line, make the conditions stable (sunny) and use the same set-up with both minimum and maximum graphics settings. This will not work offline; logic dictates that if all cars are controlled by your computer (offline) you'll all get the same reduction, probably culminating in lap times which do not sync to real life but do sync to realistic lap times against AI... it has to be on-line as sync issues, latency and differing computer set-ups all occur there, increasing the likelihood of issues. Hence, scenario and other such modes will not be affected by this... 99% certain.

So my final test, two 5 lap races around Spa, the first of which was recorded at 140FPS, the second at 50FPS. If anyone tried to overtake, I backed off so I could get clean air. My fastest lap with 140FPS was recorded with medium fuel, 50FPS on high fuel.

140FPS Medium Fuel:

50FPS High Fuel:

Oh and for good measure, the results when not everyone knows about this issue... I felt horrible after this race but please remember, I was a long long way off the pace prior to trying this. Sorry there aren't more but I don't want to win races like this

I'd like to propose that F1 2013 PC Leagues don't start until this is sorted although I'm pretty certain you're all already aware of this. I realise this may make others do the same but I don't want people to feel the utter frustration that I did whilst racing not knowing what was going on...

Also please note that whilst at 140FPS, my steering wheel would basically attempt to steer me around corners. The G27 isn't the strongest of wheels but when it attempts to full lock in one direction, seemingly with no notice, it is extremely bizarre to drive. Going from 7th gear down to 2nd around a right hander with say an average braking point of 120metres, at about 90metres, the wheel would pull at 100% force to the right during the braking zone which you would have to correct, hence the fact that I think I could have gone faster with 140FPS if I had of turned the FFB to a lower setting or gotten used to the weird effect. At some points it turns off altogether (Monaco anywhere below 3rd gear) at some places it tries to veer you off the track (Brazil, last proper corner). Not sure if this has any impact on where this coding fault lies but worthy of looking at anyway.

I hypothesise that this is based on someone trying to improve performance for console versions where a change needed to be made for the PC port. On consoles, everyone has roughly the same FPS so no problem... might I suggest that if anyone happens to read this from CM, look at your timing counter and look for where someone has rounded up or down a number to improve performance. Maybe an implementation of a customised .ceil() or .floor() which would affect rounding numbers dependant on the number of FPS per second... any float truncation? It's going to be in your on-line code base...

Codemasters, you've made a game which in certain parts is particularly epic; if this is all resolved you will have a winner here, please don't let it go to waste... timing bugs in a racing game, especially one which tries on hundredths of a second to win or loose cannot remain.

Kind Regards,
Mark.

 

[Qazdar Karim]

Ok... If you talking your gaming FPS is Roller Coaster Ride


My several test result were show this doesn't a happen.

But degrade graphics could improve FPS and vehicle speed or FFB Accuracy.
In my theory, this is your PC sucks more than the game have problem.

An i7 2600k @4.8 ghz and a GTX670 is not what i call weak ...

 

[Chris Brand]

Folks, this guy is a troll. Leave him be. Codemasters know about this issue. They're fixing it. Sit tight. Stay frosty.

 

[TCS_disable]

Looks like I finally got taste this bug and got the idea about the bug itself, while I turn all graphics in Ultra Low.

This run FPS 60 in Ultra Low graphics

This run FPS 75 in Ultra Low graphics

This run FPS 100 in Ultra Low graphics

This run FPS 120 (Actually is over to 200) in Ultra Low graphics

Now we have to understand one thing, Vsync is not key of the problem, this busted.
Frame Rate Limiter is the actual factor in these case.
Low Graphics just help the FPS push harder.

In correctly theory, while the FPS is under 60, looks everything is fine.
but over 120 FPS, this will Gain 2 seconds Faster but no more.

 

[Chris Brand]

Looks like I finally got taste this bug and got the idea about the bug itself, while I turn all graphics in Ultra Low.

This run FPS 60 in Ultra Low graphics

This run FPS 75 in Ultra Low graphics

This run FPS 100 in Ultra Low graphics

This run FPS 120 (Actually is over to 200) in Ultra Low graphics

Now we have to understand one thing, Vsync is not key of the problem, this busted.
Frame Rate Limiter is the actual factor in these case.
Low Graphics just help the FPS push harder.

In correctly theory, while the FPS is under 60, looks everything is fine.
but over 120 FPS, this will Gain 2 seconds Faster but no more.

There is no frame rate limiter. V Sync is the problem as it's the only thing that can control this issue at the moment.

 

[TCS_disable]

Okay if you're blaming PCs, mine runs 140 fps with 3 fps deviance around any track. It's extremely stable and has to be because I'm a software developer; I'm currently working on a particle simulator rendering in the region of 2 million particles, attempting to at least partially resolve N-Body General Relativity Simulation outside of work. If my computer was not stable, it wouldn't be scientifically accurate... The fact that you said you tried 120 fps but it would average at 75 fps suggests that this is a moot point as your computer is not as stable anyway.

Out of interest, are you using a controller or a wheel? Being that a lot of people who find this bug also say it affects their force feedback, it's entirely possible that this is a wheel issue although not very likely...

I'm folk from High Diploma in Game design, but this already leave from my real life.
I just use gamer view to talk this topic.

At My early test, Just my graphics are Ultra-High and very stable at 75.
My habit is love to see the game run 60 FPS.

That's why my PC got only 75 FPS and no I have not much interest to test 120 FPS.

And you are right, this is haven't clearly different between 60-140.
But at the topic start, your test result is not clear enough to me, since there have so much different factor like Engine mix (<- this is the point how's my friend feels there have logic problem at this topic).

My Later test proofed what you theory and right.

Talk the gaming input, I using the good old Logitech Driving Force Pro wheel. but FFB seems no trouble during all the tests.

 

[Chris Brand]

I'm folk from High Diploma in Game design, but this already leave from my real life.
I just use gamer view to talk this topic.

At My early test, Just my graphics are Ultra-High and very stable at 75.
My habit is love to see the game run 60 FPS.

That's why my PC got only 75 FPS and no I have not much interest to test 120 FPS.

And you are right, this is haven't clearly different between 60-140.
But at the topic start, your test result is not clear enough to me, since there have so much different factor like Engine mix (<- this is the point how's my friend feels there have logic problem at this topic).

My Later test proofed what you theory and right.

Talk the gaming input, I using the good old Logitech Driving Force Pro wheel. but FFB seems no trouble during all the tests.

Just going to point out that a High Diploma in game design is the equivalent of high school in the UK and isn't something that gives you any expertise over other people here, whereas a Software Engineer would probably have a bachelors degree (minimum) in Computer Science or similar.

Edit: I see you're from Hong Kong. Even there, a Higher Diploma is still below the level of a bachelor degree which is the lowest degree you can get.

 

[Mark Saunders]

The engine mix was to show that even with high fuel, the lower fps was still slower...

People have reported that the FFB issue only occurs at 120-130 fps or more. If you can run at 75 on max settings, try taking the test to the extreme. Go from 60 FPS with max settings to 140+ fps with ultra low and low resolution but whatever you do, don't leave V-Sync on... if you're a game designer, whatever context that applies to, you should know not to leave V-Sync on if you're doing a frame rate performance test.

Just going to point out that a High Diploma in game design is the equivalent of high school in the UK and isn't something that gives you any expertise over other people here, whereas a Software Engineer would probably have a bachelors degree (minimum) in Computer Science or similar.

Edit: I see you're from Hong Kong. Even there, a Higher Diploma is still below the level of a bachelor degree which is the lowest degree you can get.

I've got no idea as to what a diploma relates to, I wasn't saying it to give credence to my argument, only to demonstrate that my computer is not slow or unstable as was suggested. Credentials in an argument is a slippery slope, sorry...

 

[TCS_disable]

The engine mix was to show that even with high fuel, the lower fps was still slower...

People have reported that the FFB issue only occurs at 120-130 fps or more. If you can run at 75 on max settings, try taking the test to the extreme. Go from 60 FPS with max settings to 140+ fps with ultra low and low resolution but whatever you do, don't leave V-Sync on... if you're a game designer, whatever context that applies to, you should know not to leave V-Sync on if you're doing a frame rate performance test.

You look at Post #63, I so sure if I turn Vsync, this will same as I running the game in FPS 60.

Please remember, i'm using something to lock FPS in very stable condition.

 

[Mark Saunders]

When you're trying to test the performance of the game, use the in game settings to affect the performance. Don't rely on an external factor lest you risk biasing results.

 

[TCS_disable]

When you're trying to test the performance of the game, use the in game settings to affect the performance. Don't rely on an external factor lest you risk biasing results.

External factor? the PC which loaded F1 2013 itself, already the external factor at all.

 

[Mark Saunders]

/sigh...

Yes the PC is a bias but the game itself is the same on all computers. People with various specifications are reporting the same issue. Controlling fps, the very thing you're trying to test with an external program is just wrong if you're trying to do any form of test. Rule number one in science, reduce bias, rule two, reduce external factors! If you can't see why, I don't think there is any point continuing this conversation... not entirely sure why I'm continuing anyway though...

 

[Chris Brand]

I've got no idea as to what a diploma relates to, I wasn't saying it to give credence to my argument, only to demonstrate that my computer is not slow or unstable as was suggested. Credentials in an argument is a slippery slope, sorry...

Wasn't meaning you. I was meaning that TCS_Disable was trying to use the fact that he has a diploma in game design as a reason why his argument is valid.

 

[TCS_disable]

Wasn't meaning you. I was meaning that TCS_Disable was trying to use the fact that he has a diploma in game design as a reason why his argument is valid.

Are you serious? How about Mark?

 

[Chris Brand]

Are you serious? How about Mark?

He's a software engineer that designs complicated simulation software for physicists. That is way more credible than a guy with an apprenticeship with a fancy name.

 

[TCS_disable]

Controlling fps

Sound like you try to say "Vsync" and "Monitor Refresh rate" is not the external factor.

Hey come on, in PS3 and Xbox 360, does this have Graphic option in the My F1 session? LOL

just base on yours "the game itself is the same on all computers"

 

[Mark Saunders]

Are you serious? How about Mark?

I've got no idea as to what a diploma relates to, I wasn't saying it to give credence to my argument, only to demonstrate that my computer is not slow or unstable as was suggested. Credentials in an argument is a slippery slope, sorry...

Wasn't meaning you. I was meaning that TCS_Disable was trying to use the fact that he has a diploma in game design as a reason why his argument is valid.

Yeah, I only meant it to say I know my computer is good, not to 'prove' any point of the FPS bug. I realised when TCS said about his Diploma though that it was taken the wrong way.

 

[Mark Saunders]

Sound like you try to say "Vsync" and "Monitor Refresh rate" is not the external factor.

Hey come on, in PS3 and Xbox 360, does this have Graphic option in the My F1 session? LOL

just base on yours "the game itself is the same on all computers"

Christ Almighty... I mean that the game package, the executable, all resources, the physics behind it... the package itself is the same for all computers. Do I really need to spell that kind of stuff out? If I do I fear I'd need a 10,000 word document just to explain what V-Sync relates to. :/

 

[Mark Saunders]

He's a software engineer that designs complicated simulation software for physicists. That is way more credible than a guy with an apprenticeship with a fancy name.

Alas I am not. I don't want to get drawn into this and shouldn't have mentioned it in relation to my computers speed...

 

[TCS_disable]

He's a software engineer that designs complicated simulation software for physicists. That is way more credible than a guy with an apprenticeship with a fancy name.

He is engineer and designs complicated simulation software for physicists ...

Well... If you try to attack my education or qualification, keep going, this off topic

I'm gamer in this topic. Doesn't like someone got degree, jobs and spending time there to explain he has good PC

Yeah, I only meant it to say I know my computer is good, not to 'prove' any point of the FPS bug. I realised when TCS said about his Diploma though that it was taken the wrong way.

You wanna say your PC is good enough and used the sentence to promote you are expert in this field, OK I got a trap in Language LOL

If you PC is serious good enough how couldn't run FPS 120 in better graphics?
Don't worry my PC is should not good enough as your PC but enough about the game in 60 FPS.

 

[Kristian Nenov]

Gosh, just go out and fight it out!