Formula Renault 3.5 League Which Race Distance Format do you prefer?

[David O'Reilly]

We are doing some prep work behind the scenes for this league.
If you planning on joining this league please vote on the race night program you would prefer to see. Both 2 race scenarios would involve a reverse order grid in Race 2 which is very entertaining.

Format.
a) Two 45 Minute races. -Same as real life but a longer evening.
b) One 45 minutes race and one 30 minute race.-Bit shorter evening
c) One 60 Minute Race. - Long race that will possibly introduce a pit stop for tyres (not fuel). No reverse grid race at all.

To assist with your choice I should also mention that it will be on a week night most probably Monday night.

To give you an idea of timings this is a rough guide as to how it would work with 2 X 45 min races. We have reduced quali to 10 mins to allow time for race 2.

Qualification: 10 minutes, 18:30 GMT
Warmup 1: 5 minutes 18:40 GMT
Race 1: 45 minutes 18:45 GMT
Warmup 2: 5 minutes starts at 19:30 GMT
Race 2: 45 minutes 19:40 GMT. Top 10 based on results from Race 1 will reverse grid positions.

When clocks change for winter the starting times will be set an hour later.

 

[Christian Michel]

Would prefer Option b, 2nd Race reverse Grid or something like that and maybe a bit less points for the 2nd race to be fair to the guy who had the pole in race 1

 

[David O'Reilly]

Would prefer Option b, 2nd Race reverse Grid or something like that and maybe a bit less points for the 2nd race to be fair to the guy who had the pole in race 1

Christian, yes the 2nd race will be reverse grid and 1/2 points.

 

[William Néron]

I prefer option B,
however having a mandatory pitstop in the 45 minutes race and none in the 30 minutes "Sprint" race would be even better in my opinion.

 

[David O'Reilly]

I prefer option B,
however having a mandatory pitstop in the 45 minutes race and none in the 30 minutes "Sprint" race would be even better in my opinion.

Thanks, something to think about. IRL one race includes a stop.

 

[Frederic Schornstein]

I prefer option B,
however having a mandatory pitstop in the 45 minutes race and none in the 30 minutes "Sprint" race would be even better in my opinion.

That would be pretty pointless. In reallife they run 60min without pitstops and you can only change tyres. Did a 30min race at Monza this week and had 85% and more left on my tyres. With 45min and no mandatory change tyre management will come into play a bit and provide closer racing. With a pit stop only the best hotlapper and not the best racer will win. For overtaking we have DRS

I would prefer Option B. Maybe with a half distance so around 20min as we only have half points and it would allow the guys in front to defend better from the faster guys behind and we all like an undergod winning, dont we.

 

[William Néron]

Then, for the longer race, let's use a multiplicator for tyre wear?

 

[Ho3n3r]

60 minute race.

 

[Martin Bulgin]

I prefer option B,
however having a mandatory pitstop in the 45 minutes race and none in the 30 minutes "Sprint" race would be even better in my opinion.

I agree, mandatory stop in race 1 and none in the sprint

 

[Frederic Schornstein]

Then, for the longer race, let's use a multiplicator for tyre wear?

Multi on tyres never worked properly in the previous builds. Havent tested it with the new one.
These cars have only one compound, so enforcing a pit stop is artificial and wouldnt benefit the racing in anyway. It would only lead to guys who cant handle tires to get away with it or strategies like ptting on Lap 1 to get the stop out of the way.

 

[David O'Reilly]

In real life they have a pit stop in one of their two 45 min races with compulsory change of two tyres only. (staffing costs!).
They dont stop at Monza (prob as tyre wear is so low?)

I think its an ideal thing to test in one of our test races (a compulsory pit stop).
Lets test it and see what we all reckon??

The race distance vote seems to support the 45 and 30min option fairly strongly.
Personally I was in two minds. Liking the 60 min idea as I like a good long race for stuff to evolve and get my teeth into. Then liking the 45 and 30 as it will offer a fun race 2 as Fred suggested It was on my mind that it's short enough that a mid field runner may hold off the quickest which is always fun and exciting.

Thanks all for the input.
David

 

[Frederic Schornstein]

In real life they have a pit stop in one of their two 45 min races with compulsory change of two tyres only. (staffing costs!).
They dont stop at Monza (prob as tyre wear is so low?)

I think its an ideal thing to test in one of our test races (a compulsory pit stop).
Lets test it and see what we all reckon??

The race distance vote seems to support the 45 and 30min option fairly strongly.
Personally I was in two minds. Liking the 60 min idea as I like a good long race for stuff to evolve and get my teeth into. Then liking the 45 and 30 as it will offer a fun race 2 as Fred suggested It was on my mind that it's short enough that a mid field runner may hold off the quickest which is always fun and exciting.

Thanks all for the input.
David

I searched a bit for the regulations, but not easy to find. They seem to have a bit of a shorter second race this season compared to the 45min last year. What I found, that they had (I was wrong there) compulsary pit stop in both races in 2013, but they were really limited on tires.

They had 3 sets of tires in total for the 2 races and 2 qualies. In 2014 they have only 2 new sets of tyres for both races and both qualies. Unfortunately we cant model that in rFactor2.
They now also have complicated regs on when to stop etc.

We should try it out, but with mandatory pit stops I would prefer two 45min races with one having a compulsary stop. Even on tracks like Hockenheim 30min are very easy on the tires no matter how hard you push

With two 45min races both races should get equal points. In last years VWSR both races had the same lenght, but you gained little points in Race2, which is not really motivating. The most interesting would be to have a mandatory pit stop in Race 1, so top drivers could jump each other in the pit stop and no mandatory stop in Race 2, so the reverse grid pole has a realistic chance, but with 45min it is pretty hard.

But honestly if we really want to have "real pit stops" we would have to use the indycar as it has a lot more wear on its tires.

 

[David O'Reilly]

@Frederic Schornstein
Well I think the race distance is decided really. People have voted and 45/30 has won. Not by a landslide but a significant margin. 12 votes to 8.

Agreed that no way should we introduce a stop in the 30 min race.
If we try it, its in the 45 min race. Its something to try in a test race and then discuss afterwards and make a decision.
There would be pros and cons.EG its another element strategy wise, undercut attempt, traffic etc, potential speed limiter errors, managing cold tyres on the outlap.
But yes it would take away tyre management or at least the demands at the end of handling worn tyres which would be a shame in a way.
However how much is tyre wear an issue in 2014 IRL?
I have watched a couple of races and unlike say GP3 where its critical I cant remember it coming into it? Maybe its my memory-dont know. I think they switched to Michelins and they are faster by 1 sec and wear less of an issue.

So there is no committment to a stop at this stage but no harm in testing it.
With planned weather 2-3 races will have a stop anyway to change tyres.

 

[Frederic Schornstein]

@Frederic Schornstein
Well I think the race distance is decided really. People have voted and 45/30 has won. Not by a landslide but a significant margin. 12 votes to 8.

Agreed that no way should we introduce a stop in the 30 min race.
If we try it, its in the 45 min race. Its something to try in a test race and then discuss afterwards and make a decision.
There would be pros and cons.EG its another element strategy wise, undercut attempt, traffic etc, potential speed limiter errors, managing cold tyres on the outlap.
But yes it would take away tyre management or at least the demands at the end of handling worn tyres which would be a shame in a way.
However how much is tyre wear an issue in 2014 IRL?
I have watched a couple of races and unlike say GP3 where its critical I cant remember it coming into it? Maybe its my memory-dont know. I think they switched to Michelins and they are faster by 1 sec and wear less of an issue.

So there is no committment to a stop at this stage but no harm in testing it.
With planned weather 2-3 races will have a stop anyway to change tyres.

Yeah I prefer the 45/30 or 45/20 as well, thats why pit stops are a bit awkward. I saw a bit of the racing in 2013, but there was never a big mention about the tyre wear. As they only change two tyres I think it is only there for the strategy like in DTM where you could run the whole race on one set.
It would be much nicer, if we would have refueling in these cars, because than pit stops would be a lot more interesting compared to just changing tyre, because the rules force you to do that.

A funny version would be a mandatory pit stop in race 2

 

[William Néron]

Can't we enable refuling? Or is it because we base our rules on IRL serie?

 

[Frederic Schornstein]

Can't we enable refuling? Or is it because we base our rules on IRL serie?

As far as I know the car itself doesnt allow it. If you are in a race session you cant choose fuel load in the pit menu.