Formula One: First Step Made Towards New Engine Formula

[Radley Croft]

I don't get it. There have been complaints about the sound of the 1.6 V6 powerunit, but all they do is increase the RPM limit? It might increase the sound, sure, but not necessarily improve it. Isn't it an inherent problem with the V6 powerunit that it sounds like it does purely because it's a V6?

They want Formula One to be sustainable with relevant, green technology. That's all great and I don't see a return to N/A engines, either. But why is a V12, a V10 or even a return to the V8 so tricky? The number of cylinders does not prevent using green technology. Sure, they would probably need to burn a bit more fuel, but at the end of the day it's a simple matter of cylinders - pretty innocent in my book. I don't see the world devolving into chaos simply because 20 cars on an F1 grid a few weekends every year decides to run, say, V10s instead of V6s, mind you with the exact same hybrid technology. F1 engines are so specialized for the sport. I don't see how going to a V10 or V12 formula would impact road relevance that much.

 

[Rob]

green technology

The ALMS was way way ahead on this. They actually awarded a Championship for the team/car that used the least amount of fuel (no limit though) and had the highest finishing average. That's how you promote "green" technology.

But I agree with your premise.

 

[anthony monteil]

• 3000rpm higher engine running speed range to improve the sound

Sadly, this won't improve the sound at all, even the opposite.
This block would need to sound good in first place, which it doesn't currently, so instead of sounding like mopeds, they'll sound like tiny mopeds, that's even worse

 

[PR3D4TOR]

Interessting to see where these engines will actually be going. Problem with the current engines in terms of sound is that this was never a factor for the engineers. If there will be a greater focus on sound then also V6s can sound pretty nice. 3000 RPM higher is also a Plus. ALso the removal of the MGU-H is not a bad idea in terms of cost. Lets see where F1 is heading. For the first time since 20 years or more in 2021 we do not see a reduction in displacement/rev (V12 -> V8 -> V6).

But the fuel regulations will be the most critical point.

So at least they saw that these over complex engines where not the way to go. Simplified Hybrid engines with kinetic recovery is the way to go. I hope some manufacturers will think about entering the sport. Doubt it will be BMW but that would be one of the best things. Maybe Toyota wants to enter. Maybe Honda creates their own team? Maybe Aston Martin & red Bull develop their own Power Unit.

Lets wait and see.

By the way: Forget about N/A engines. Won't happen. In no sport that has a technical focus ...
All about "Road Relevance" for Manufacturers and nothing else.

 

[Kari Kranck]

Can't understand if they are worry about sounds, there are lot of good sound engineers.
3000 rpm more, is not enough for sound, if talking sounds give them more cylinders. and not higher pitch bee type noise.

Let Marshall design sounds, like they have done for rock'n'roll. if liberty wants add some entertaiment for F1. Engines should be the band, and let music industry perform NFL superbowl.

I rather listen bikes now and after 2021.

 

[shimon.ifraimov]

how much rpm mercedes is running right now?

 

[Kakusso]

Why they don't make engine rules far simpler; no restrictions while maintaining the no refueling rule.
Let people be creative like in the old days so many restrictions brings huge entry barriers and prevents brilliant engineers from expressing themselves.

 

[Ghoults]

The minimum car weight limit is surely going to be increased even further. 900kg f1 car at the start of the race? And as long as there is 100kg/h fuel flow limit the rpm limits make no difference. And they are planning to make the fuel limits even lower... They are bending backwards for teams like mercedes while at the same time giving the middle finger to everyone else. They might just as well have two categories of f1 cars. Class 1 is mercedes, ferrari and red bull. Class 2 is everyone else.

 

[samcar304]

The reason the current engines are dampened in sound and don't necessarily sound like traditional v6's because the MGU-H, which they are getting rid off. The V6 is the right way to go, it's not like it's going to become formula e... The 80's had many Turbo V6 engines.

 

[formidable]

Doesn't matter what they do to the PU, F1 will still be boring while they continue to allow high downforce wings that create so much dirty air you can't set the guy in front of you up for an overtake 2 turns before the straight, going back to basics doesn't mean they can't innovate.

F1 needs more downforce. The easy overtake is boring.

Return to wingcars?

 

[apex11]

Basically Lewis could be 7 times WDC by the time factory team Mercedes leave F1 then in 2021.... great....

People constantly bang on and moan about pixelated cars in games being used online and need for a BoP etc...yet in the apparent pinnacle of real Motorsport a team can have a massive engine performance boost over the rest them for nearly a decade come 2021 and no one batters an eyelid...

 

[Philipp Koch]

god christ 18000rpm with a turbo engine...gg

 

[Nick Milton]

The ALMS was way way ahead on this. They actually awarded a Championship for the team/car that used the least amount of fuel (no limit though) and had the highest finishing average. That's how you promote "green" technology.

But I agree with your premise.

Greenies, sorry sick of em!

 

[Nick Milton]

F1 needs more downforce. The easy overtake is boring.

Return to wingcars?

Formula one needs a few more of verstappens, vettells, alonso, Riccardo, and a few others, and a few James hunt,
It don't need show ponies like Hamilton, happy when winning, plain rude when losing.and he'd be the latter in anything but a merc ,

 

[betterstranger]

If it had to be a Hybrid let it be a hybrid like in LaFerrari - just to make N/A engine more powerful. And put a goddamned V8 into it or a V10... or better a V12.

 

[apex11]

What F1 needs is at the very least all cars with same BHP output, the Merc is about 100bhp more than anyone else (at least it was in 2014), worst BHP is the Honda.
They always said that the regs that came in in 2014 would be about engine power over aero (to stop Red Bull dominance), all they did was allow Merc dominate, i'd go as far as to say never in the history of F1 has a team been able to dominate so much, proof is that a very average driver in F1 context like Bottas can step into it and win.
Its great if you are a Lewis fan, but pretty rubbish if you simply want to see a bit more of a fair fight.

 

[InsaneOzzie]

F1 needs more downforce. The easy overtake is boring.

Return to wingcars?

You obviously haven't watched F1 from the pre downforce dominated era 80's-90's, where the drivers had to work hard to setup an opponent for an over take, it certainly wasn't easy and took a great deal of skill, this is why many of the drivers from that era are considered some of the greatest in F1 history.

Unlike today where all a driver needs to do is get within 1 second at the DRS zone and by the end of the straight your ahead, that's truly boring, and shows little of a drivers true racecraft.

If the FIA & Liberty Media were truly interested in making F1 popular again instead of bending to the powers of the factory teams, they would restrict the current aero packages that make it near on impossible to overtake due to the Vortices created by the multi winglets on the front wing, which were designed to deliberately generate masses of dirty air to make it impossible to overtake, or setup an overtake. It has taken millions of dollars and hundreds of hours of R&D by the factory teams to get to this point of dominance via the aero, plus Bernie's willingness to let Ferrari and Mercedes dictate the terms of F1's direction.....for a price of course.

 

[wombat999]

For starters ANY driver who has survived the ground effects era is quite vocal about the battering they received.
Alan Jones is often a guest on F1 coverage on the Australia FTA network (A crap one I hasten to add!) and has no hesitation at reviling ground effects, and he was never a shrinking violet.
The danger with those cars should be obvious, incredible adhesion until a skirt lifted or the seal was degraded and the vehicle literally takes off.
Jochen Mass demonstrated this perfectly when his RAM March 821 became airborne at Paul Ricard, landing among spectators, four being very seriously injured.
I really can't be bothered confirming anything further on the subject but the unhappiness is well known if you care to look.
FTR, I do not regard NASCAR as anything other than entertainment for Rednecks, and Indycar as a poor substitute for CART.

 

[apex11]

You obviously haven't watched F1 from the pre downforce dominated era 80's-90's, where the drivers had to work hard to setup an opponent for an over take, it certainly wasn't easy and took a great deal of skill, this is why many of the drivers from that era are considered some of the greatest in F1 history.

Unlike today where all a driver needs to do is get within 1 second at the DRS zone and by the end of the straight your ahead, that's truly boring, and shows little of a drivers true racecraft.

If the FIA & Liberty Media were truly interested in making F1 popular again instead of bending to the powers of the factory teams, they would restrict the current aero packages that make it near on impossible to overtake due to the Vortices created by the multi winglets on the front wing, which were designed to deliberately generate masses of dirty air to make it impossible to overtake, or setup an overtake. It has taken millions of dollars and hundreds of hours of R&D by the factory teams to get to this point of dominance via the aero, plus Bernie's willingness to let Ferrari and Mercedes dictate the terms of F1's direction.....for a price of course.

I was more leaning to the idea that to stop Red Bull dominance via the aero / chassis design they decided to make that side less important, hence Mr Newey slopes off to design yachts for a bit whilst they make engine power the most important, so its a very simple fact of the most power wins and we get an even more unfair playing field.
Not taking anything away from Merc, but frankly its a joke nearly as daft as the Brawn year but at least that was stopped.
You will never ever get it all fair in this sport, but over the last 4 seasons its been like class racing.
A resurgent Ferrari after 3 seasons of Merc dominance doesn't mean Ferrari was the car to be in, as soon as the Ferrari is the car to be in Lewis will be off there as quick as he can say "red is favorite colour".... again...

 

[Nick Hill]

• 3000rpm higher engine running speed range to improve the sound

Sadly, this won't improve the sound at all, even the opposite.
This block would need to sound good in first place, which it doesn't currently, so instead of sounding like mopeds, they'll sound like tiny mopeds, that's even worse

As an R3E fan, when someone from Sector3 comments on engine sounds, I'm inclined to listen!