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Formula One British Grand Prix | Driver of the Day: Vote Now

I'm being objective - how about you? A win is a win, 10 is greater than 8.

Yes a win is a win, and more points are more points. So Button is better, since points is what matters in the end right?

Don't bother replying, i am sure you will just try to find more stats that help your cause :)
 
Yes a win is a win, and more points are more points. So Button is better, since points is what matters in the end right?

Don't bother replying, i am sure you will just try to find more stats that help your cause :)
No, I quite agree, points are what Formula One racing is predicated, but as far as the two drivers it didn't change the optics to those who mattered in the sport. Top teams continued wanting Lewis and no one else as their top driver, the same as McLaren. The teams aren't fans, they're experienced people who know what to look for in a desirable and skilled driver. I guess that would explain why Mercedes sent Niki...
 
You can only compare drivers when they all drive a MERC. Now its all driver this and driver that, stupid discussion, not including what car they drive.:thumbsdown:
 
Oh so now all of a sudden the opposition matters?

Villeneuve was up against Schumacher, Hakkinen, and Hill, all champions, or to be champions, and arguably one of the best ever.

I think you are talented to write hagiographys, by the way you speak of him.

I will remind you also that Lewis did very little in the rest of his Mclaren stint, and that Button scored more points than him in the 3 seasons combined, and had the measure of him in many races. So either Button is one of the best ever, or Hamilton is not that great, you pick.

It's difficult to compare Lewis and Button at McLaren as Button was in his prime and Lewis wan't even close to his. That's why I try not to compare Lewis and Verstappen, especially since there's a 30 second gap in pace probably even more).
 

markg88

Premium
I wish driver fans would have some sort of perspective rather than discounting any reasonable view that detracts from their biased blinkered view. It is perfectectly understandable for us fans to have fave drivers. My favourite since Senna is Alonso, and that is based on his performances prior to driving for Renault, his C'ships against Schumacher, and his awesome performances for Ferrari against better cars and teams. I do however, accept that he had a mighty team-mate in Hamilton, so I can only accept that Hamilton is a top driver also, but to me, Hamilton is not the absolute best. Hamilton fans dine out on that year against Alonso, without acknowledging that, apart from that year, he didn't really show anything other than being one of the top drivers. What he has done since getting into the Mercs is admirable of course, but he has had less than tier 1 team-mates in Rosberg and Bottas, although Rosberg was certainly almost Hamilton's equal, but not quite enough. All I recall about Bottas pre Merc, is a driver who could defend well, and that, plus his mild manner, is probably why he was signed by Merc as the perfect No2.
Hamilton fans won't accept it, but I bet Hamilton himself does, that Verstappen is on his level, but he also knows that he has a massive advantage over Verstappen by driving that Merc.
 
It's difficult to compare Lewis and Button at McLaren as Button was in his prime and Lewis wan't even close to his. That's why I try not to compare Lewis and Verstappen, especially since there's a 30 second gap in pace probably even more).


Whats this new "fad" of talking about "prime"?

He was not in his "prime"? He was already a world champion, he was 25 years old, he was in his 4th season at F1, he was the darling of Mclaren, so of course he was in his "prime". A driver doesn't get any faster with age. He might get wiser, and more experient in some situations, but not faster, at least not when you are already a seasoned F1 driver and a world champion.

Its a very convenient argument too, he was beaten by his teammate, but he wasn't in his prime yet/already, it only "counts" when he was beating everybody, then he is in his prime. Surely when he beat Kovalainen he was in his prime? Or when he was beaten by Nico he wasn't yet also?

The mental gymnastics are incredible. It's like me saying that Senna was in his prime in 1988, but not in 1989 when he lost to Prost. Or that in 1989 He wasn't in his prime yet, and only got into it when conveniently Prost went away in 1990. It makes no sense.
 

BertramRaven

Premium
Button took the championship with Brawn because had to drive fast. After all, he was in a stolen car. If you want to know the real story behind the Brawn GP "fairytale" let me know. Let's just say the latest documentary about the Brawn miracle has little truth to it, some but very little. They also fail to cover the theft of equipment by BrawnGP in a night raid on two factories to "take back their technology." - A pretext which was entirely untrue. In reality, the brilliance of the car was down to a specific team of very talented people who did not work at Brawn GP.
Also, do you remember the My Earth Dream Honda livery? I arranged for some rather sneaky modifications to it. On the nose of Button's car were the words "GO TAKU, GO SAF1". On the nose of Barrichello's car were the words "GO ANT, GO SAF1" - I nearly wet myself laughing when Button noticed.
 
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Whats this new "fad" of talking about "prime"?

He was not in his "prime"? He was already a world champion, he was 25 years old, he was in his 4th season at F1, he was the darling of Mclaren, so of course he was in his "prime". A driver doesn't get any faster with age. He might get wiser, and more experient in some situations, but not faster, at least not when you are already a seasoned F1 driver and a world champion.

Its a very convenient argument too, he was beaten by his teammate, but he wasn't in his prime yet/already, it only "counts" when he was beating everybody, then he is in his prime. Surely when he beat Kovalainen he was in his prime? Or when he was beaten by Nico he wasn't yet also?

The mental gymnastics are incredible. It's like me saying that Senna was in his prime in 1988, but not in 1989 when he lost to Prost. Or that in 1989 He wasn't in his prime yet, and only got into it when conveniently Prost went away in 1990. It makes no sense.

Some people peak early, some people peak later. What us so ‘new’ about that? There are so many variables in racing it’s difficult to see the real picture. Cars are different. Tracks are different. Weather is different. There’s stuff happening off track. There’s reliability. There’s Brownian motion that has to be accounted for. What I’m saying is there’s no way to determine these things. Not even in equal machinery. There’s always randomness and we will never be able to see who’s the best in F1 or any sport. 20 races per year, especially in unequal machinery, can never give the answer to anything.
 
Some people peak early, some people peak later. What us so ‘new’ about that? There are so many variables in racing it’s difficult to see the real picture. Cars are different. Tracks are different. Weather is different. There’s stuff happening off track. There’s reliability. There’s Brownian motion that has to be accounted for. What I’m saying is there’s no way to determine these things. Not even in equal machinery. There’s always randomness and we will never be able to see who’s the best in F1 or any sport. 20 races per year, especially in unequal machinery, can never give the answer to anything.

Well that's interesting, since you were the one that were so sure of when Lewis was in his "prime" or not... i always said that comparisons are pointless, and merely stated facts.
 

BertramRaven

Premium
Well that's interesting, since you were the one that were so sure of when Lewis was in his "prime" or not... i always said that comparisons are pointless, and merely stated facts.
At this point I should bring up Hitler. By the laws of the interwebs that brings the "who has the biggest (insert object here)" discussion to an end. ;)
 
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