First Big Boy Rig Planning

[Clover11]

I have been doing some sim racing for a while now but I have never had a gaming computer before and have just used more consumer gear and consoles. Fortunately, I can now afford to spend a little money on my hobby and take it up a notch or two from the playseat and old Logitech wheel I thought was pretty great 10 or so years ago. I'm really excited to get a gaming computer and really get into the sim more then the simcades I am more familiar with. I'd love feedback before I spend what is a pretty decent amount of money for me.

First off, I'm doing this for fun. Ideally I want to increase the immersion so it is more enjoyable for me. I don't need things to be perfect and I will never be the fastest, but I want to have fun and play with all things automotive and for it to feel as close to a real car as possible within reason. I have not done much online racing, partially because it is kind of a mess on consoles and partially because I don't have a community. I think I am going to join a league though and I am looking forward to having a consistent group to race with.

Budget has grown to ~$5K + Computer
Have Fanatec CSL LC pedals, shifter, handbrake

Cockpit: Simlab P1-X or DOF Reality H3
Part of me thinks I should go with a stiff chassis that I can customize as needed which leads me to the P1-X. A larger and growing side of me wants motion on a budget. I can't see myself spending the money a D-box system or PT-Actuator system costs anytime soon, but a cockpit and motion for $2K? I am a little worried about getting what I pay for and see some negative reviews but not a ton. I know the DOF Reality H3 is not very stiff or smooth, but I think it would still be fun. Also, losing some feeling in the wheel but getting more feedback from motion seems like a good tradeoff to me at the moment. I have never tried a motion system before so I don't really know. My current playset cockpit's flex in the pedal plate does bug me a lot and I worry I might spend $2K on the rig and then decide to go with an 80/20 rig to get rid of flex, making the H3 a complete loss. But with being more concerned with having fun then being fast, maybe it is fine for me

Seat: Staring off with a vintage Kirky high back race seat. It's what I'm using in the car I'm building (Factory Five Cobra Daytona Coupe) and I think it will be cool to have the same seat in my rig. I hate the playseat that I have now which makes my back sweat more then Johnny Depp in a recovery meeting.

Triple monitor stand and 3 27" 1080 monitors:
I have had to have cataract surgery on both eyes and have artificial lenses in my eyes that keep me from focusing on anything within about 16" so I don't think VR will work for me though I have not tried it. So I think triples are for me though VR seems great. Tempted to go 1440 but from my understanding that takes a fairly powerful CPU/GPU and I'm not sure a AMD5600X and mid level GPU can handle it.

Wheel base/wheel: Thinking of SimuCube 2 Pro or possibly Fanatec DD1
My CSL Elite base has worked pretty well for me but I don't like the notchyness you can feel sometimes and the rattle that gets transmitted from some effects. The rattling and notchyness make it apparent that I am not driving a real car and I am more looking to improve the smoothness then anything else. This is about better immersion for me as I don't think I will have the force turned up super high but want it to feel as close to a real car as possible. Not sure on wheel rim yet, but I will want a circular wheel. Considering the Accurforce V2 at about half the price as well but it sounds like the simucube is smoother.

Tactile feedback: Buttkicker Gamer II
Never tried these before but the concept seems great to me. I would love the gear cluck, engine rumble, etc.

There is an a lot of info out there and I am doing a lot of reading and Youtube watching but I can't read it all. Anyone want to steer the new guy in the right direction or at least keep me from stepping in it.? I appreciate all the knowledge and feedback.

 

[Clover11]

Well... I guess that was way too much rambling for everyone. My bad.


Computer: Waiting on parts with everyone else. Ryzen 5600X, 3080, 16GB ram. Looking like early December.

Monitors: Going triple. Probably 27" 1440. Looking for a deal

Rig: Ordered a Sim Lab P1-X w/ separate triple monitor stand. I like the versatility of the 80/20 and like the big sturdy brackets SimLabs uses. Ordered the front plate for SC2

Wheelbase: SimUCube 2 Pro. I'm not sure about this yet and may go Fanatec Podium DD1. I like the rim options for Fanatec. I want a really good circular rim and a formula rim which is a lot cheaper to do with Fanatec. Seems like I see people change from Podeio to SC2 but not the other way around though. I think the smoothness which sounds like it is better on the SC2 is leading me to SImucube for immersion.

Wheel: Don't know, want a good circular wheel and a formula rim. May just go circular because they options for SC2 seem pricy.

Seat: Going to a local place to try a few out and try to see what fits me best. Breathability is important to me. My old seat made my back sweat like mad and I would like something that help there.

Tactile: Still thinking Buttkicker Gamer II for easy of use.

Motion: I am really into the SFX100 systems and really want to build my own. I am so thankful for this option. I have never done 3D printing before but have been interested. I'm going to go for this when funds allow down the road.

Any feedback?

 

[lovemesomespeed]

Before you buy the Buttkicker Gamer II, make sure you know how you're going to mount it. I have two Gamer 2's that I was using on my old Playseat rig. Now that I've got the P1-X, I'm at a loss as to how to mount them to the rig. (I'll be doing a complete overhaul of my tactile, but that's 6 months down the road or so).

I went with the SC2 Pro. Never owned the Fanatec DD base, so I can't compare the two. But I've been happy so far with the SC2.

 

[Jan Larsen]

The seat: forget leather if that was on your options list, you cant breath in it. Stick to suede or anything similar.

Triples: As you said in the first post, 3x1440p draws a lot of power. I have 3x1080p 144hz monitors and I get 150-200 fps in rF2 and R3E on my own, it drops to about 120-150fps when racing online. This with a 2070s and matching hardware. Unless you're in the 2080/3080 range, I'd say forget about 3x1440p.

 

[Clover11]

Before you buy the Buttkicker Gamer II, make sure you know how you're going to mount it. I have two Gamer 2's that I was using on my old Playseat rig. Now that I've got the P1-X, I'm at a loss as to how to mount them to the rig. (I'll be doing a complete overhaul of my tactile, but that's 6 months down the road or so).

I went with the SC2 Pro. Never owned the Fanatec DD base, so I can't compare the two. But I've been happy so far with the SC2.

Thanks, I ordered a buttkicker mount from Sim-Lab but I don't really have a plan yet. Thought it would at least give me and idea of what I should be doing. I saw some people recommended mounting directly to the seat bottom. I'm not sure how you mange that to be honest. Do you just drill through the seat bottom and run a bolt down through it? I'm not going for each corner or anything crazy, just want to add to the immersion with gear shift clunks and what not.

 

[lovemesomespeed]

Thanks, I ordered a buttkicker mount from Sim-Lab

Those Buttkicker mounts that Sim-Lab sells are for the Mini LFE, not the Gamer 2. I ordered a few of those mounts myself with my Sim Lab order thinking I was going to order some Mini LFEs but have since decided I need to go with the bigger LFE. So - no way to mount the Gamer 2's I currently have, and no easy way to mount LFEs that I've found.

 

[Clover11]

Those Buttkicker mounts that Sim-Lab sells are for the Mini LFE, not the Gamer 2. I ordered a few of those mounts myself with my Sim Lab order thinking I was going to order some Mini LFEs but have since decided I need to go with the bigger LFE. So - no way to mount the Gamer 2's I currently have, and no easy way to mount LFEs that I've found.

Thanks for the info, I was afraid of that but defiantly good to know. Looking at the picture, I was not sure how it attached to a Gamer II. Make sense that it is actually for the LFEs. At least it was cheap.

I was thinking of getting a 3D printer to build the SFX100 system and to play around with. Maybe I should move the printer purchase up a bit and see if I can come up with a mount for the Gamer II. If I do, I'll post on here and I could make a few extra to pass along at cost. Not looking to start a business or anything like that, just makes me feel better about a purchases the more I use them.

Just got notice that my rig has shipped from Sim-Lab. I'm super excited. Once I know what day it will actually arrive, I will take the day off work. I'm really looking forward to this build.

 

[stigs2cousin]

Clearly you want to start big.

I`m not totaly sure if it would be a good idea to start at several fronts at the same time.
if it was me (which it isn´t!!)
i´d start with building a solid rig and getting it dialled in.
Especially with a direct drive wheel that could need some doing.
it took me quite some time to find the perfekt seating position.
Just measuring my RL car and copiing the seating position didn´t work out at all.

When you have understood the DD Wheel ( which setting to adjust to get it to act to your liking) one could start the process again with tactile feedback.
I have no personal experience with that but have read a lot, sounds complicated, at least in the beginning.

So when that is running smoothly ( or at least understood well enough to make smart adjustments)
Its time to start the dialling process again with the motion system.

At least thats how I train my trainees ( in a completely different field )

For a comfortable seat:

if you can sweat a lot ( I can!!) a cloth seat with ventilation is a godssend.
But they are effing expensive and will not be as rigid as a racing seat.

The Recaro Sportster CS I´m using is very comfy and well ventilated, but adds alittle flex to an otherwise very rigid rig.( IT has over 500.00 kms in two former cars of mine, so it was free of charge for the simrig)
But you will notice this only with very stiff loadcell brakes.

So if you could get hold of an used OEM seat with ventilation ( best would be passenger side, much less sought after and most of the time very little used) and find a way to fabricate a mounting to the rig.
A 12v psu will take care of the elictrical side of things.
( I would use the OEM sliders) that could be an affordable and comfy solution if you can live with ( a little) flex.

MFG Carsten

 

[Elaphe]

Let me disagree with what's been said about leather seats. I replaced my cloth bucket seat (Sparco replica) with one in leather (Mirco) and I can't be happier. It looks better, it cleans better, it doesn't attract dust, hairs and all kind of dirt like my old seat, it looks more resistent, and I don't feel that it's any hotter than my old seat ( I live in the south of Spain). I would discard a leather seat only in case your like driving naked or you have your cockpit outdoors in the sun.

 

[Clover11]

My Sim-Lab P1X came today and I am finishing setting up my new computer tonight. Feels more like Christmas for me today that I have had in years and years. I don't normally buy stuff for myself. Pretty fun and I am grateful.

Tonight, I'm getting Steam going, downloading games, etc. Been a pretty long time since I have had a gaming computer so pretty much everything needs to be set up. Since all these accounts are new, I don't have any friends and it keeps pointing that out to me. Not real cool.

Planning to put the rig together tomorrow. I still have not decided on a seat but have a lot to think about there. I'm going to use a vintage Kirky seat from my kit car build for now since I don't have that running yet. Thought I could also use the wheel from that build temporarily but the bolt pattern is wrong and I don't really want to drill out the wheel that will end up in my car. Anyways, I think I am going to try going by a local shop to try some seats and wheels tomorrow. Saw some seats on sale at Digital Motorsports for what seems like a great price but I'd really like to actually sit in the seat first if possible. The price is a lot higher locally, but I do like to support local businesses when it makes sense.

The packaging of the P1-X was great. Unboxed everything and getting started on the build tonight while the computer does it's thing. I'm in love. 80/20 is fantastic.

Thanks again everyone. Time to go play some more.

 

[stigs2cousin]

"Let´s get to it"

Testsitting is avery good idea

Take a newspaper/book with you ( yeah, I´m THAT oldschool) and test the seat for at least ten minutes.
You will spend A LOT of time in it.

According the wheel rim, its quite easy to attach just the rim to the Simucube quick release, in this case I would drill/tab the quickrelease,
not the steering wheel for your rl car. The wheel side part is not that expensive and it´s not spoilt for another wheel only because it has some more threads in it. Guys building a kitcat can´t be fabrication averse

But then you would need a buttonbox to mount to your rig and a separate shifter.
Thats really fine for recreational use, its tons of fun just to drive the Asseto corsa free roams , eg LA Canyons.

When you want to get competetive ( I never planned that, it just happens and is a good learning experience)
you will need a steering wheel with paddle shifters.
Except you are really down on that Heel´n´Toe thing.
And even than or if you use an external sequential shifter it´s a competetive disadvantage.

MFG Carsten

 

[Clover11]

I finished the initial build of the P1-X last night. That thing is a rock. It exceeds my expectations. It did take me quite a wile to build, but I really took my time and redid things a few times to make them as square as I could manage and make sure note of the t nuts showed. I wanted to take my time and really do it right which I think turned out well. I still don't have the seat or the wheel base, so everything is just mocked up for now and I will need to make final adjustments once I have those.

I did go by a local shop yesterday and sat in a bunch of seats. Glad I did since the one I was thinking of ordering pushed my shoulders forward and would not have been comfortable. Also, the nicer fabric on the OMP seats is pretty course and I don't like it. Turns out, a couple of the cheaper seats fit me well. The sales person was kind enough to hint to me that they were about to have a sale on the seats, so I did no buy one yesterday but will probably by from them once I see their sale start.

I did buy a wheel while I was there. A Momo Mod 31. I was looking for a circular wheel with alcantera and the Momo was a great fit. It is not drilled, so I will need to drill out holes once my SC2 Prom comes, but that should not be a big deal.

I don't know why I never thought of drilling out the quick release instead of the wheel, but I am going to do that as well so I can use my kit car wheel for vintage racing. I became so focused on finding a wheel with a 70 mm bolt pattern, I never thought I could just change the adapter instead of making a matching bolt pattern on the wheel. Thanks man, that did not occur to me until you said it. I ordered an extra quick release so I can take your advice.

SC2 Pro should get to me on Tuesday. I also ordered the Asher Racing B16L-SC button box from SimRacing Bay. My new Momo Mod 31 should fit right up and I am really looking forward to it.

One funny note, got a message from my internet service provider that I am at 90% of my download cap for the month. I never new I had a cap before and had been downloading games like crazy. Whoops. At least they said they would waive overages for the first month. Not sure weather to try to squeeze by this month or just admit I am blowing it and download everything this month.

 

[Ruttman98]

We are on the edge of our seats (pardon the pun) in suspense . . .

Which "cheaper seats" are you considering?

 

[Ruttman98]

Also, if it's not too rude: what is your height and weight? Important for me at 6'2" 230 lbs. I have a boatload of research on fiberglass fixed back seats but no "seat time" apart from my steel tube Corbeau Forza.

Anyone know of a road racing oriented showroom within 200 miles of Kansas City?

 

[stigs2cousin]

@Ruttman98 :

i don´t know if they are locally available (and they are on the pricy side of things) but the Recaro Pole Position fits me
(same hight, more heft ) quite well at hips and shoulders.

If it were for a real car I would choose ( almost had chosen) the Profi SPG XL which is longer in the back.
The pole postion is a little shorter, the belt holes are a bit low for a real time crash for someone 1,85 ( 6'2") tall.

Both can pass german vehicle inspektion which is of no importance for simracing.

MFG Carsten

 

[Ruttman98]

@Ruttman98 :

i don´t know if they are locally available (and they are on the pricy side of things) but the Recaro Pole Position fits me
(same hight, more heft ) quite well at hips and shoulders.

If it were for a real car I would choose ( almost had chosen) the Profi SPG XL which is longer in the back.
The pole postion is a little shorter, the belt holes are a bit low for a real time crash for someone 1,85 ( 6'2") tall.

Both can pass german vehicle inspektion which is of no importance for simracing.

MFG Carsten

You are fortunate to "wohnnen im Deutschland" where Recaros are from! Great fixed seat choice. Your Recaro Pole Position is $1050-1200 USD in the U.S.

As a child of the 1970s and 1980s, Recaros are virtually synonymous with European sports car seating, and were optional on several American musclecars as well. The Fox body Ford Mustang had a Recaro option with featured an adjustable length front bolster which is a godsend to a person like me with long legs. Later Mustang GT (and LXs had interior upgrades) with similar adjustable front bolster Lear Siegler seats.

That said, I need a rigid seat to apply tactile exciters, but I also need more seat depth than many of the entry level seats provide. Budget $450 USD or less, shipped. I have been burning up the internet looking for gently used racing seats and blemished new ones.

 

[Clover11]

Sure, thought cheap is fairly relative here. I'm 5ft. 11in. ~180lbs. I went in expecting to like the OMP WRC-R seat but the seat pushes my shoulders forward which would not be comfortable for long. I had not really been paying attention to the shoulders of the seats but that ended up being an issue for me.

The Racetech RT1000 fit me the best. It looks pretty simple in photos, but it was well shaped to my back and the seat itself was fits me well from hip to hip. For me, I want the side bolsters to be in contact with both my hips and legs, but not put any pressure on them.

The Sparco Evo fit me well but the XL version was a bit too wide for me and did not give me any contact across my hips. It might be a good fit for you being a little larger then me. The Sparco Grid did not look like it was going to be comfortable in pictures but it actually was pretty good. It looks kind of cool in person.

For OMP, I liked the TRS-E, which I think was their cheapest seat. It actually fit me well. Their Champ R also fit me about as well but was a bit more expensive. I did not like the fabric on the OMP WRS-R seat or HTE-R and they just did not fit me. Their cheap seats though, much better for me.

They had some Momo seats listed online but none in their stores for me to test.

Hope I helped instead of confusing things further. I don't exactly have it nailed down yet myself. Plus, I'm not sure how tactile would be impacted by the different seats.

 

[Clover11]

I also ordered three monitors today which I will mount on the Sim Labs free standing triple monitor mount. I ended up going with the ViewSonic VX2758-2KP-MHD, which is a 27in. 1440P 144Hz IPS monitor. I'm no expert here but it seemed like IPS panel would be good for the viewing angles of the side monitors. I also decided to go with 1440P to be a little more future proof then the 1080. I also wanted a 144Hz or more for a fast refresh rate. I think this monitor has the same panel as the well reviewed LG and Dell that are popular but with a cheaper plastic build and stand. The stand does not really matter to me as I will be using the VESE mount. It seems like a good value, though it seems to be sold out often.

 

[Clover11]

Also, if it's not too rude: what is your height and weight? Important for me at 6'2" 230 lbs. I have a boatload of research on fiberglass fixed back seats but no "seat time" apart from my steel tube Corbeau Forza.

Anyone know of a road racing oriented showroom within 200 miles of Kansas City?

Why are you specifically looking for fiberglass? Is it a weight thing or does it have to do with mounting tactile?

Sparco has some "Q" series seats that they say is lighter then the fiberglass models. I'm not really sure if that would be something you are interested in or maybe it would be an issue for mounting anything to other then the side rails.

For example, there is the Grid II which is fiberglass and then the Grid Q which is 2.5Kg. lighter.

 

[Ruttman98]

Why are you specifically looking for fiberglass? Is it a weight thing or does it have to do with mounting tactile?

Sparco has some "Q" series seats that they say is lighter then the fiberglass models. I'm not really sure if that would be something you are interested in or maybe it would be an issue for mounting anything to other then the side rails.

For example, there is the Grid II which is fiberglass and then the Grid Q which is 2.5Kg. lighter.

Thank you for posting--tactile is the reason for fiberglass (other than the expense of carbon fiber--CF looks the part though!). Until a week or so ago, when a fellow RD contributor posted his test of a composite seat vs. his Spec Miata Kirkey seat (the Al seat did not transmit vibrations well), I had pretty much planned to run my tactile on a formed aluminim seat from Kirkey or UltraShield.

Similar to the lighter QRT Sparcos, Cobra Seats feature Diolen fiber (similar to Kevlar) in their seats which makes them lighter than typical FRP (fiberglass reinforced plastic) / GRP seats. (The way fiberglass is laid also plays a factor in weight vs. strength). Tipping me in favor of Cobra is their Pro-Fit system which allows three different thicknesses of thigh, back and side pads.

I am not concerned with the weight of the seat. Fit, comfort, and quality construction trump all else. I have researched nearly everything readily availabe in the U.S.:

Private Label Manufacturing (PLM) F1Spec -- at approx. $300 USD shipped, PLM seeks to provide quality seats without the expense of a big name label, but they appear on the small side

NRG Ultra / Prisma (Barry Rowland and RC/Heliguy have both reviewed favorably)

Corbeau FX-1 (affordable, possibly a bit wanting for seat bottom comfort)

Bimarco (great value seat from Poland, but expensive to buy in North America)

Cobra Imola Pro-Fit and Suzuka Pro-Fit

Entry to mid-level models from MOMO, OMP, Sparco, Recaro

RaceTech R1000 (beautiful seats made in New Zealand but pricey)

Sabelt -- GT-3 (might be a skosh tight), Titan XL, Taurus. Sabelt Pad-GT gets my vote for innovative design and great looks!

Seibon has a beautiful carbon fiber halo style seat that can be had if one stretches to $850 USD + shipping

Occasionally one finds an out of date/used example, a display model, or a seat used only for a real car fitting, but shipping is expensive everywhere for such a bulky package. Location, location, location. I am willing to drive 200+ miles.

A newer $399 USD composite FIA race seat from RaceQuip looks like a quality offering with decent room in the large size, adequate padding, and a better than typical cover, but I have not seen any reviews.