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Fiat Panda 900 i.e. (1992)

Cars Fiat Panda 900 i.e. (1992) 1.2

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SATLAB90

Premium
SATLAB90 submitted a new resource:

Fiat Panda 900 i.e. (1992) - Fiat Panda 900 i.e. car mod for Assetto Corsa

Fiat Panda 900 i.e. - Assetto Corsa Mod by SATLAB (1.0)

View attachment 416844

I'm proud to present to you a car which I'm very fond. The Fiat Panda 900 car mod brings to you all the "panda" experience in Assetto Corsa. This car is very famous in Italy, in particular the first generation which was produced from 1980 to 2003.

It is a FWD car, with a 5-speed gearbox and a 45 bhp engine (903), designed by Giorgetto...

Read more about this resource...
 
Beautiful car!!! Thank you.
The citroen AX is very similar in suspensions and engine. Can you make the panda can be turned into a citroen AX?
Thanks a lot.

citroen-ax-30-aniversario-201632350_2.jpg
 
Provandola per un po' ho notato alcune cose che si possono facilmente cambiare tipo la pressione delle gomme standard che è troppo bassa, dovrebbe essere intorno ai 2-2,1 Bar da libretto (30-31 psi) e inoltre la macchina tende a essere molto instabile nel dritto sui 120-130 kmh quando nella realtà è molto più gestibile. Forse molle troppo morbide? La macchina rolla molto ed è giusto, ma forse dovrebbe essere un po' più rigida perchè nella realtà non si affossa così tanto nè in curva nè in frenata nè in accelerazione. Questa eccessiva morbidezza la porta forse a non raggiungere nemmeno 140kmh che io faccio spesso in autostrada in fase di sorpasso. Per l'audio invece prova quello di una Mazda NA. Mi è sembrato più naturale di un 5cyl turbo di una S1. Per il resto buon modello e ovviamente grazie mille per aver portato su AC la mia pandina :)
 
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SATLAB90

Premium
Provandola per un po' ho notato alcune cose che si possono facilmente cambiare tipo la pressione delle gomme standard che è troppo bassa, dovrebbe essere intorno ai 2-2,1 Bar da libretto (30-31 psi) e inoltre la macchina tende a essere molto instabile nel dritto sui 120-130 kmh quando nella realtà è molto più gestibile. Forse molle troppo morbide? La macchina rolla molto ed è giusto, ma forse dovrebbe essere un po' più rigida perchè nella realtà non si affossa così tanto nè in curva nè in frenata nè in accelerazione. Questa eccessiva morbidezza la porta forse a non raggiungere nemmeno 140kmh che io faccio spesso in autostrada in fase di sorpasso. Per l'audio invece prova quello di una Mazda NA. Mi è sembrato più naturale di un 5cyl turbo di una S1. Per il resto buon modello e ovviamente grazie mille per aver portato su AC la mia pandina :)
Ciao grazie delle dritte. Per le gomme e il motore ho utilizzato i dati ufficiali del manuale dell’officina per panda 900, quindi se c’è qualche discrepanza può essere perché da modello a modello la Fiat ha cambiato qualcosina. La velocità max che ho raggiunto con questa è 136 km/h e la fiat dice che ha 135 di massima. Quindi ci sta ahah

Per le sospensioni le ho ammorbidite per farla rollare un pochino ma se pensi siano da irrigidire provvederò a farlo un pochino ;)
Comunque prova a scaricare anche l’ultima versione che ha uno sterzo più preciso e vicino alla realtà (avevo messo un angolo di sterzata troppo basso)
 
Ciao grazie delle dritte. Per le gomme e il motore ho utilizzato i dati ufficiali del manuale dell’officina per panda 900, quindi se c’è qualche discrepanza può essere perché da modello a modello la Fiat ha cambiato qualcosina. La velocità max che ho raggiunto con questa è 136 km/h e la fiat dice che ha 135 di massima. Quindi ci sta ahah

Per le sospensioni le ho ammorbidite per farla rollare un pochino ma se pensi siano da irrigidire provvederò a farlo un pochino ;)
Comunque prova a scaricare anche l’ultima versione che ha uno sterzo più preciso e vicino alla realtà (avevo messo un angolo di sterzata troppo basso)
Testo l'ultima versione al volo e vedo se la sento un po' meglio
 
Testo l'ultima versione al volo e vedo se la sento un po' meglio
Provata adesso e il FFB mi sembra molto meglio, si sente il "sotto" abbastanza bene. La macchina comunque mi sembra ancora parecchio morbida, io proverei ad irrigidire un po' soprattutto davanti dove è più pesante.
 
I'm a fan of this type of car, the 4x4 version especially appealed to me so much I've been quite tempted to make it myself!

Really well done to complete your first mod, its not easy. One thing I'd really concentrate on next time is try and have more consistency across the whole model; right now there is a very large variation of poly densities, with much of the higher poly areas quite redundant and not adding much in the way of detail. In those cases it would be better to be very low poly and they would look just as good.

A good idea is to look at other models and try to work out why did they what they did; you can make big improvements just by taking inspiration from other models.

Awesome first mod, keep it up :)
 

AccAkut

Premium
That looks pretty good Only thing that immediately caught my eye is the use of the all yellow map file which makes the car non reflective on track, and really stand out in a field of cars in a bad way. Yellow (=blue channel at 0) means colour will be matte... looks like made of paper :( I would have made you a more correct map file, but as you use the same map.dds for a number of materials with different UV maps it's too messed up to make a AO bake
11.jpg
but using this colour already makes it better;
panda_map.png
preview.jpg
 

SATLAB90

Premium
That looks pretty good Only thing that immediately caught my eye is the use of the all yellow map file which makes the car non reflective on track, and really stand out in a field of cars in a bad way. Yellow (=blue channel at 0) means colour will be matte... looks like made of paper :( I would have made you a more correct map file, but as you use the same map.dds for a number of materials with different UV maps it's too messed up to make a AO bake
View attachment 417094
but using this colour already makes it better;
View attachment 417095
View attachment 417096
Thank you a lot for the feedback. Can you please tell me how can I create a good map file? I use the yellow dds as seen in an old tutorial but since I’m new to modding I didn’t quite understand how to correctly handle this.

thanks again :)
 

SATLAB90

Premium
I'm a fan of this type of car, the 4x4 version especially appealed to me so much I've been quite tempted to make it myself!

Really well done to complete your first mod, its not easy. One thing I'd really concentrate on next time is try and have more consistency across the whole model; right now there is a very large variation of poly densities, with much of the higher poly areas quite redundant and not adding much in the way of detail. In those cases it would be better to be very low poly and they would look just as good.

A good idea is to look at other models and try to work out why did they what they did; you can make big improvements just by taking inspiration from other models.

Awesome first mod, keep it up :)
Thank you very much! Yes, I didn’t think too much about optimization, in particular during the first stages of the modelling part. First parts of the car (i.e. bumpers, hood) are full of polygons while the last parts where quite optimized as I understood more about optimized 3D modelling.
Sure this is something I need to improve :)
 
Thank you a lot for the feedback. Can you please tell me how can I create a good map file? I use the yellow dds as seen in an old tutorial but since I’m new to modding I didn’t quite understand how to correctly handle this.

thanks again :)
Typically to be in line with Ks cars, you would want your RGB map to look something like this:
1604218843719.png

Essentially using the AO bake on the Red and Blue channel, with Green being maximum. Usually 512px*512px uncompressed is best, no alpha channel needed.

You can see the effects of each channel on this post: https://www.racedepartment.com/thre...orking-on-thread.126119/page-319#post-2897604
 

SATLAB90

Premium
Typically to be in line with Ks cars, you would want your RGB map to look something like this:
View attachment 417145
Essentially using the AO bake on the Red and Blue channel, with Green being maximum. Usually 512px*512px uncompressed is best, no alpha channel needed.

You can see the effects of each channel on this post: https://www.racedepartment.com/thre...orking-on-thread.126119/page-319#post-2897604

Top explaination! Thank you very much, I’ll test it as soon as possible :)
 
A few tips on physics;

Oversteer can't be fixed in any way except to make the car properly. Adjusting steering ratio is a bad sign and will not affect balance at all. :roflmao:

Front geometry is surely not set at design height, so the roll center is very low underground. I suggest designing suspensions at the unladen height with no driver and fuel.

Rear suspension, just look at my 106 Rallye S2 from Daniel or classic Mini from Pessio for a trailing arm and my E30 on RD for a semi-trailing arm. I think it's trailing IRL in the Fiat.

To find the center point of the suspension:

Open "telemetry" app and find the suspension travel section
1l fuel
Tap the gas to get the car to settle
Suspension travel will give your "rod_length" value for the 0 point in millimeters ie: 100 = 0.100
Put in that rod_length
Measure again

Beware if the load on the axle or the springrate changes, it will change too.

About springrates:

The ride frequencies are like 0.9 and 1.1hz, wheelrate around 5000, I doubt it. Car designers avoid 1hz frequency due to nausea it causes. More common would be slightly higher, like 1.2 and 1.4 for example.

I'm just mainly curious how you got those values. Manual? Guessing?

If I was looking at the right car, it's front strut and rear trailing arm with coil spring.

For a strut front the MR will be commonly quite high so springrate will remain quite high. Rear motion ratio is very low, maybe around 0.3 - 0.4 for the spring, so I would expect the rear springrate to be much higher than the front, but end up potentially even lower in an economy FWD car. The load split of the car will turn it into a rear-biased frequency setup usually.

Some doubt on the rollbars too. They're 2500/2500 right now, which is possible (NSX is like 1500 / 2500) but I would doubt it in some cases. To make sure calculate it.

Here is a calculator:

Fill in the ARB dimensions from the manual, or do a visual estimation (Can be hard to find pics for a car like this) or measure it yourself. Remember to apply motion ratio to the bar as well. Link and bar bushings generally also remove rate from rollbars during nominal travel, usually the rate ends up 0.3 - 0.6x from the raw rate. I use 0.4 for most Shore65 rubber bushings.

However sometimes they do end up very low and close together. 2000 DC2 GS-R:

FRONT=3388.7143206
REAR=2280.04769319
;F ARB diameter = 24.0 Solid
;F ARB MR = 0.3819^2
;F ARB Droplink angle = deg =
;F ARB dimension X = 215
;F ARB dimension Y = 805
;F ARB dimension Z = 265
;F ARB bushing effect = 0.4

;R ARB diameter = 14.0 Solid
;R ARB MR JDM, USDM Type R/SiR = 0.5138^2
;R ARB MR USDM non-R Integra = 0.5216^2
;R ARB Droplink angle = deg =
;F ARB dimension X = 122
;F ARB dimension Y = 950
;F ARB dimension Z = 123
;R ARB bushing effect = 0.4

More sporty models will usually have a lot of rear bias in FWD cars. 1998 Type-R.

FRONT=4987.23649016
REAR=20144.9565249
;F ARB diameter = 25.0 Solid
;F ARB MR = 0.3819^2
;F ARB Droplink angle = deg =
;F ARB dimension X = 215
;F ARB dimension Y = 805
;F ARB dimension Z = 265
;F ARB bushing effect = 0.5

;R ARB diameter = 23.0 Solid
;R ARB MR JDM, USDM Type R/SiR = 0.5138^2
;R ARB MR USDM non-R Integra = 0.5216^2
;R ARB Droplink angle = deg =
;F ARB dimension X = 122
;F ARB dimension Y = 950
;F ARB dimension Z = 123
;R ARB bushing effect = 0.5

Bumpstops as well, some doubt. Did you accidentally put in the spring rates to them? They look like sensible wheelrates to me. Bumpstops/packers in normal AC should commonly be the nominal portion of the beginning of travel. However you can use them for whatever spring you want. Beware STRUT has extremely stiff bumpstop_up so you will need to use the packer for the shaft-mounted bumpstop.
 
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SATLAB90

Premium
A few tips on physics;

Oversteer can't be fixed in any way except to make the car properly. Adjusting steering ratio is a bad sign and will not affect balance at all. :roflmao:

Front geometry is surely not set at design height, so the roll center is very low underground. I suggest designing suspensions at the unladen height with no driver and fuel.

Rear suspension, just look at my 106 Rallye S2 from Daniel or classic Mini from Pessio for a trailing arm and my E30 on RD for a semi-trailing arm. I think it's trailing IRL in the Fiat.

To find the center point of the suspension:

Open "telemetry" app and find the suspension travel section
1l fuel
Tap the gas to get the car to settle
Suspension travel will give your "rod_length" value for the 0 point in millimeters ie: 100 = 0.100
Put in that rod_length
Measure again

Beware if the load on the axle or the springrate changes, it will change too.

About springrates:

The ride frequencies are like 0.9 and 1.1hz, wheelrate around 5000, I doubt it. Car designers avoid 1hz frequency due to nausea it causes. More common would be slightly higher, like 1.2 and 1.4 for example.

I'm just mainly curious how you got those values. Manual? Guessing?

If I was looking at the right car, it's front strut and rear trailing arm with coil spring.

For a strut front the MR will be commonly quite high so springrate will remain quite high. Rear motion ratio is very low, maybe around 0.3 - 0.4 for the spring, so I would expect the rear springrate to be much higher than the front, but end up potentially even lower in an economy FWD car. The load split of the car will turn it into a rear-biased frequency setup usually.

Some doubt on the rollbars too. They're 2500/2500 right now, which is possible (NSX is like 1500 / 2500) but I would doubt it in some cases. To make sure calculate it.

Here is a calculator:

Fill in the ARB dimensions from the manual, or do a visual estimation (Can be hard to find pics for a car like this) or measure it yourself. Remember to apply motion ratio to the bar as well. Link and bar bushings generally also remove rate from rollbars during nominal travel, usually the rate ends up 0.3 - 0.6x from the raw rate. I use 0.4 for most Shore65 rubber bushings.

However sometimes they do end up very low and close together. 2000 DC2 GS-R:

FRONT=3388.7143206
REAR=2280.04769319
;F ARB diameter = 24.0 Solid
;F ARB MR = 0.3819^2
;F ARB Droplink angle = deg =
;F ARB dimension X = 215
;F ARB dimension Y = 805
;F ARB dimension Z = 265
;F ARB bushing effect = 0.4

;R ARB diameter = 14.0 Solid
;R ARB MR JDM, USDM Type R/SiR = 0.5138^2
;R ARB MR USDM non-R Integra = 0.5216^2
;R ARB Droplink angle = deg =
;F ARB dimension X = 122
;F ARB dimension Y = 950
;F ARB dimension Z = 123
;R ARB bushing effect = 0.4

More sporty models will usually have a lot of rear bias in FWD cars. 1998 Type-R.

FRONT=4987.23649016
REAR=20144.9565249
;F ARB diameter = 25.0 Solid
;F ARB MR = 0.3819^2
;F ARB Droplink angle = deg =
;F ARB dimension X = 215
;F ARB dimension Y = 805
;F ARB dimension Z = 265
;F ARB bushing effect = 0.5

;R ARB diameter = 23.0 Solid
;R ARB MR JDM, USDM Type R/SiR = 0.5138^2
;R ARB MR USDM non-R Integra = 0.5216^2
;R ARB Droplink angle = deg =
;F ARB dimension X = 122
;F ARB dimension Y = 950
;F ARB dimension Z = 123
;R ARB bushing effect = 0.5

Bumpstops as well, some doubt. Did you accidentally put in the spring rates to them? They look like sensible wheelrates to me. Bumpstops/packers in normal AC should commonly be the nominal portion of the beginning of travel. However you can use them for whatever spring you want. Beware STRUT has extremely stiff bumpstop_up so you will need to use the packer for the shaft-mounted bumpstop.

too many informations mate ahah
I’m not a physics expert, I simply put as much information as possible from the garage manual. For the other stuff I simply tweaked them according to “what is like” driving the real car.
I will try to take a look at what you suggested. Thank you a lot for the feedback and have a nice sunday :)
 
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