FFB and Steering wheel settings for GTL

[Knut Omdal Tveito]

Steering wheel maximum rotation and wheel lock
When it comes to steering wheel rotation and wheel lock (in-game car setting) it is important to remember that it is the ratio between these two that is important. If you use 400/15 or 800/30 it will feel exactly the same (because the ratio is the same), the only difference is that you can turn the wheel further for the latter case. On the other hand 400/30 and 800/30 will be very different and the first setting will be much more responsive (car wheel turns twice as much for a given steering wheel rotation).

The definition of the steering ratio is the following
SR=(steering wheel rotation, lock to lock) / (car wheel rotation, lock to lock)

For GTL, you can then calculate the steering ratio as follows:
SR=(steering wheel maximum rotation) / (2*lock)

Some examples of real cars (quick google, some of them seems a little fishy):
..................................SR ..........(sw max/lock)
2012 VW Golf ............15.6
BMW E46 M3: ...........15.4
Subaru Sti: ................15.2 ..........(972/31.5)
Caterham: ..................10.5 .........(800/38)
Radical: .....................10.5 .........(800/38)
mk1 Ford Cortina ........16.4
65 Corvette .................17.0
66 Mustang ................16.0 (Non-power steering: 19.9) (Shelby,Boss etc is 16)
66 Falcon ...................16.0 (Non-power steering: 22)
Porsche 914 ...............17.8
57 Ferrari 250 .............20.0

I usually have 800 degrees maximum rotation (2.2 turns lock to lock) and a ratio of 14-16 (25-30 degrees lock in-game).

FFB settings
A guide for customizing the FFB settings can be found here. I use the FFB settings of Warren Dawes:

FFB Device Type="4" // Type of FFB controller: 0=none 1=wheel, 2=stick/custom, 3=rumble pad.
FFB Effects Level="1" // Number of FFB effects to use: 0=No Effects, 1=Low, 2=Medium, 3=High, 4=Full, 5=Custom.
FFB Gain="1.00000" // Strength of Force Feedback effects. Range 0.0 to 1.0.
FFB Throttle FX on steer axis="1" // 0 = Throttle effects on throttle axis, 1 = throttle effects on steering axis.
FFB Brake FX on steer axis="1" // 0 = Brake effects on brake axis, 1 = brake effects on steering axis.
FFB steer vibe freq mult="0.07000" // Controls frequency of steering vibration. Recommended: 0.5 to 1.0, 0.0 disables steering vibration.
FFB steer vibe zero magnitude="0.03500" // Magnitude of steering vibration at 0mph (reference point).
FFB steer vibe slope="0.00000" // Slope of line defining magnitude as a function of frequency (used with FFB steer vibe zero magnitude).
FFB steer vibe wave type="0" // Type of wave to use for vibe: 0=Sine, 1=Square, 2=Triangle, 3=Sawtooth up, 4=Sawtooth down.
FFB steer force average weight="0.30000" // How much weight is given to new steering force calculations each frame (0.01 - 1.0). Lower values will smooth out the steering force, but will also add latency.
FFB steer force exponent="0.75000" // Steering force output "sensitivity". Range 0.0 to infinity. 0.0 to 1.0 = higher sensitivity, greater than 1.0 = lower sensitivity.
FFB steer force input max="-11500.00000" // Recommended: 11500 (-11500 if controller pulls in the wrong direction).
FFB steer force output max="1.70000" // Maximum force output of steering force, recommendation 0.8 to 2.0
FFB steer force grip weight="0.25000" // Range 0.0 to 1.0, recommended: 0.4 to 0.9. How much weight is given to tire grip when calculating steering force.
FFB steer force grip factor="1.00000" // Range 0.0 to 1.0, recommended: 0.2 to 0.6. How much of a factor the front wheel grip is on the steering weight.
FFB steer update thresh="0.0001500000" // Amount of change required to update steer force/vibe (0.0 - 1.0). Lower values = steering force updated more frequently = lower frame rate.
FFB steer friction coefficient="-0.15000" // Coefficient to use for steering friction. Range: -1.0 to 1.0
FFB steer friction saturation="1.00000" // Saturation value to use for steering friction. Range: 0 - 1.0
FFB steer damper coefficient="0.20000" // Coefficient to use for steering damper. Range: -1.0 to 1.0
FFB steer damper saturation="1.00000" // Saturation value to use for steering damper. Range: 0 - 1.0
FFB throttle vibe freq mult="0.40000" // Scales actual engine frequency to force FFB vibration frequency. Suggested range: 0.10 to 0.50
FFB throttle vibe zero magnitude="0.09000" // Magnitude of engine vibration at 0rpm (reference point).
FFB throttle vibe slope="0.00000" // Slope of line defining magnitude as a function of frequency (used with FFB throttle vibe zero magnitude).
FFB throttle vibe wave type="0" // Type of wave to use for vibe: 0=Sine, 1=Square, 2=Triangle, 3=Sawtooth up, 4=Sawtooth down.
FFB throttle vibe update thresh="0.02000" // Amount of change required to update throttle vibe (0.0 - 1.0)
FFB brake vibe freq mult="0.90000" // Scales actual brake rotational frequency to force feedback vibration frequency.
FFB brake vibe zero magnitude="0.09000" // Magnitude of brake vibration at 0mph (reference point).
FFB brake vibe slope="0.00000" // Slope of line defining magnitude as a function of frequency (used with FFB brake vibe zero magnitude).
FFB brake vibe wave type="0" // Type of wave to use for vibe: 0=Sine, 1=Square, 2=Triangle, 3=Sawtooth up, 4=Sawtooth down.
FFB brake vibe update thresh="0.02000" // Amount of change required to update brake vibe (0.0 to 1.0)
FFB rumble strip magnitude="0.25000" // How strong the rumble strip rumble is. Range 0.0 to 1.0, 0.0 disables effect.
FFB rumble strip freq mult="0.50000" // Rumble stip frequency multiplier 1.0 = one rumble per wheel rev.
FFB rumble strip wave type="0" // Type of wave to use for vibe: 0=Sine, 1=Square, 2=Triangle, 3=Sawtooth up, 4=Sawtooth down.
FFB rumble strip pull factor="-0.70000" // How strongly wheel pulls right/left when running over a rumble strip. Suggested range: -1.5 to 1.5.
FFB rumble strip update thresh="0.07500" // Amount of change required to update rumble strip effect (0.0 - 1.0)
FFB jolt magnitude="1.30000" // How strong jolts from other cars (or walls) are. Suggested Range: -2.0 to 2.0.

Just copy the posted settings and overwrite the corresponding section in this file (be sure to make a backup first):
GTL/Userdata/"PlayerName"/ "PlayerName".plr

Logitech Profiler
For the settings in Logitech Profiler I have the following settings:
0% Damping
0% Spring
0% Centering spring (deactivated)
As I understand, these effects are not linked to the physics simulation and are instead created by the logitech software. Therefore, I remove them completely.


FFB strength
If you set the strength too high you will loose a lot of detail in the feedback because the sim is asking for more torque than your steering wheel can provide.

For instance if you have a steering arm force like this when going through a corner:

​

If you set the strength too high you will reach the limit of your steering wheel (black line in picture below) very early and after that the force will be constant and equal to the limit of your wheel. Thus you will not be able to detect the variation of the feedback force that is actually occuring:​

​

Now if you decrease the strength setting you will not reach the limit and you will get all the feedback through the wheel:​

​

​

Uploaded with ImageShack.us​

To find a good setting, I usually run some tests on a bumpy circuit with different settings from 50-100% until I find a setting that is both strong enough and detailed enough.


If you have anymore information/suggestions please post it in this thread

 

[Ole Marius Myrvold]

Going OT. But it is lovely to see how many that jumps on the help in such a short amount of time! I think I'm falling in love with the GTL community!

 

[Grzesiek Zabielski]

That's why i bought box wersion of GT Legends today. Im sure I'll enjoy

 

[Hiroshi Awazu]

I'm using Warren's settings on GTR2 and it is awesome! FFB feels A LOT better than the default settings that GTR2 is set with. With the Effects on full, Strength on 80% it's perfect!

 

[Rupe Wilson]

Hiroshi Awazu this makes it real easy to play with the FFB in GTR2 ( CLICK )

 

[Hiroshi Awazu]

Thanks for posting but i'm going to stick with Warren's settings. I'm now using this on rFactor as well and now it feels great!. I'm not a big fan of Real Feel and i've tried a few different settings that i downloaded via NG and I don't know what else to say but Warrens setup feels the best out of the others that i've tried that were specifically for rFactor.

 

[Paul Barrass]

Answering someones post from earlier, if you are running the digital version of GTL under Vista/7/8 you have two options. If you are running with UAC enabled, then you should end up with two profiles, one under the game location and one under your profile in windows. If you have UAC disabled, then you may only get the one location. If this happens, then always run GTL direct from an exe or shortcut to exe (In case of the steam version), and always run as administrator. If you have the Steam version, make sure to go into properties and uncheck "Always keep this game up to date" box. I have found if you do not do this, your settings are overwritten with default files, including removing the CD key occasionally, meaning you have to re-enter when entering multiplayer.

 

[Tim Ling]

Thank you Paul! I had no idea this was what was causing my CD key to vanish

 

[Antonio Tavares]

Steering wheel maximum rotation and wheel lock
When it comes to steering wheel rotation and wheel lock (in-game car setting) it is important to remember that it is the ratio between these two that is important. If you use 400/15 or 800/30 it will feel exactly the same (because the ratio is the same), the only difference is that you can turn the wheel further for the latter case. On the other hand 400/30 and 800/30 will be very different and the first setting will be much more responsive (car wheel turns twice as much for a given steering wheel rotation).

The definition of the steering ratio is the following
SR=(steering wheel rotation, lock to lock) / (car wheel rotation, lock to lock)

For GTL, you can then calculate the steering ratio as follows:
SR=(steering wheel maximum rotation) / (2*lock)

Some examples of real cars (quick google, some of them seems a little fishy):
..................................SR ..........(sw max/lock)
2012 VW Golf ............15.6
BMW E46 M3: ...........15.4
Subaru Sti: ................15.2 ..........(972/31.5)
Caterham: ..................10.5 .........(800/38)
Radical: .....................10.5 .........(800/38)
mk1 Ford Cortina ........16.4
65 Corvette .................17.0
66 Mustang ................16.0 (Non-power steering: 19.9) (Shelby,Boss etc is 16)
66 Falcon ...................16.0 (Non-power steering: 22)
Porsche 914 ...............17.8
57 Ferrari 250 .............20.0

I usually have 800 degrees maximum rotation (2.2 turns lock to lock) and a ratio of 14-16 (25-30 degrees lock in-game).

(...)

If you have anymore information/suggestions please post it in this thread

My thoughts on Steering Ratio:

This relates with the total rotation of your wheel, so wheels with different rotation values will require different steering lock values to have the same steering ratio.
Example: I use 720º in my wheel, and my steering lock in most car setups is 21º. The formula to calculate the steering ratio is:

* (Steering wheel rotation : 2) : steering lock = steering ratio
-> (720 : 2) : 21 = steering ratio
-> 360 : 22 = 17,14
* My formula is slightly different from Knut's formula, but the result is the same.

So, my steering ratio with 720º of wheel rotation and 21º of steering lock in car setup is 17,14:1. As a reference, the lower this number, the more direct and quick to turn the steering will be. It doesn’t mean that direct and quick is a good thing, it depends on the car. Formulas and Radicals have a steering ratio of around 10:1 (very quick and direct turning), GT cars between 12:1 and 15:1, and street cars and old race cars (as in GTL) between 15:1 and 20:1, therefore it’s not good, imho, to drive a GTL car with a steering ratio of 10:1 used for a Formula. You drive a Formula almost like a kart, and that is not the way to drive older cars. A higher steering ratio will give more precision and control.

Wheels with 240º (like Momo) - if you drive with default steering lock, which I think its 14,5º, your steering ratio will be:

(240 : 2) : 14,5 = steering ratio
120 : 14,5 = steering ratio
= 8,27:1

This is, imho, too much direct for GTL cars. The car will respond abruptly to the minimum steering input, and will be very hard to control, especially during corner entry and mid-corner phases. With a steering lock of 10º, the steering ratio will be 12:1 - not ideal for these cars, but much better than the default value. A steering lock of 8º will give you a steering ratio of 15:1, much closer to realistic values.
Tip: always test in small steps. If, for example, your steering lock is 15º, and you want to try 10º, try 12º or 13º first, with a track and a car you already know well, to have a reference time and be able to see if the change was positive or not. Your lap times and consistency lap after lap will be the judges.
Don't expect to change values and shave right away 1 or 2 secs of your best lap time. You will need some practice to get used to the new steering inputs (you will have to turn the wheel a little more, instead of driving like in a kart, with almost direct steering). It worked for me: as soon as I got used to drive with a correct steering ratio, not only my lap times dropped, but I was able to drive in a much more consistent way lap after lap.

 

[Antonio Tavares]

Some references on the post above:

Car facts guide

SimRacing Wiki - Car Specs

Which Steering Wheel Range setting with Mini?

Steering Ratios Chart

 

[Roger Snead]

I am a noob with PC sims, and can't find the file where you set up these FFB settings in GTL.What is the name of the file exactly? Any help? Thank you Sim is thru Steam. This is a bit embarrassing.

 

[Rupe Wilson]

X:\steam\steamapps\common\GTLegends\UserData\ Username\ then your looking for your plr file

 

[Roger Snead]

Got it! Thank you.

 

[Roger Snead]

Just tried out Warrens FFB. Much better, with the Fanatec Elite. Once again, Warren has improved my sim racing experience. Thanks to Rupe also.

 

[Rupe Wilson]

After being asked a few times how i have set my wheel up i though i would do a few pics to maybe help others.
ill show you some pictures how ive done mine
You can coppy what ive done or check it with yours.
then we can go through it on t/speak if needed
first Control Panel\All Control Panel Items\Devices and Printers right click on g25 and select game controller setting
working from left to right in the picture
click the properties of the g25
then click setting
copy the settings picture from picture 1
pic 1

close it all down when complete
picture 2 below
Now we move onto the logitech profiler itself
global device setting
as you can see in this picture and the one above both are at 900 deg on the wheel
when complete close it down
pic 2

picture 3 below
this is my specific profile for GTL
only in this one i have my wheel rotation at 732 deg
and this is the one where you allow the game to adjust settings
pic3

 

[Roger Snead]

Can Warrens FFB for GTLegends using the Fanatec be applied in GTR2 FIA? Thank you.

 

[Antonio Tavares]

I'm almost sure it can Roger. Just in case, make a backup of your plr file before introducing Warren's FFB section. If you want to revert to original settings, then just replace your plr with the backup.

Tip: after changing parameters in the player.plr FFB section, NEVER choose any of the in-game presets for the wheel, as it will override the parameters you have changed in the player.plr file.

 

[Roger Snead]

Whoa,,,,I never knew the "tip" That was very useful, as I had no idea. No surprise there, as I am not very familiar with sim files, procedures, etc. What about remapping features, one at a time which I sometimes need to do? Will that change things as well?

I will do backup of the default GTR2 like I did with GTL and will just give Warrens a go perhaps on GTR 2 FIA. Can't hurt I guess. Actually I have not played GTR 2 FIA but a couple times very briefly, so the default may be just fine. Thanks a bunch.

 

[Antonio Tavares]

I'm not sure what you mean by remapping features, can you explain better?

Default FFB in GTR2 i no good imho, just like in GTL. Tyre grip is massively exagerated, and when grip is lost the wheel gets very light, without almost any FFB to help to feel the car. In fact, I think the default FFB parameters are the same in GTL and GTR2.

If you want to dig a little deeper on this subject, read this:

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B12JV2MwJvCncFRZazR4NlNxQ0k/edit?usp=sharing (Force Feedback Tweaking Guide for Simbin Games - Julien Regnard v1.0)

I use Warren's settings myself with my CSR Elite in GTL, and they are the best settings I've used so far.

 

[Warren Dawes]

Not sure what you mean by re-mapping features Roger, but if you are referring to changing other things In-Game, it shouldn't be a problem. I think Antonio's tip was mainly referring to the FFB settings section, just don't choose a default preset Wheels etc.

My FFB parameters should be fine in GTR2, I also use them for Race 07 and they work ok.

EDIT: Antonio posted while I was typing, and amazingly we must think alike. Our opening line was identical, scary hey.

 

[Roger Snead]

Ok, It's all clear now. Sorry I was not . What I meant was, with the Elite I sometimes change wheel rims from the Formula rim to the GT stock Elite rim and need to reassign buttons for in-game features like.... Look behind, Toggle HUD, etc.
Yes, I think you are right Antonio. I was looking at the GTR2 FFB settings, and they do look identical. That's what gave me the idea.

Again Warren, these FFB values are a huge improvement to me with the Elite, and will more than likely be changing Race07 and GTR2 FIA as well. GT Legends has never felt better! RD and it's members ROCK!!