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Fanatec Has Released Details on Their All New ClubSport V2

Discussion in 'Sim Racing Hardware' started by Ryan Ogurek, Aug 29, 2014.

  1. eKretz

    eKretz

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    If your motor gets hot it is losing power, no two ways about it. Most just don't notice it since human hands aren't calibrated in ounces or pounds of force, and the loss is gradual as the wheel/motor heats up while at the same time one's concentration is usually focused quite narrowly on the racing. If you check your wheel with an objective method of measurement, it will be losing power if it's getting hot. The T500 is a bit different case than the CSW V1 in that the T500's motor isn't pushed as hard as the CSW V1's motors. The T500 is run at more like 60% of max stall current, while the CSW V1 is pushed at more like 90 - 100%, depending on motor condition.

    The CSW V1 lost 40% after about 30 - 40 minutes of running F1 2012 at 100% in game feedback, with 60% environmental effects and 30% wheel weight, IIRC. Wheel settings were set at default except for SEN - which I run at 360 for F1. I could feel it quite well when it dropped, but I was looking for it. I measured linear force with a cable around the periphery of the wheel and converted this to torque to get my numbers. My home is A/C'ed also - no extreme environment here either. This was with the formula wheel also, so minimum stress there as well. I posted some numbers and graphs in the CSW modding thread at GTP but it's now 85 pages long. I don't recall exactly where it was at.
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2014
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  2. JeffL

    JeffL
    Right on Brother, I hear ya, it's all good.

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    One thing I would like to add so that people don't freak out if their unit gets hot. yes heat on a motor can cause loss torque but it doesn't mean motor is origin of the heat. because an undersized coil on a transformer can also create heat and as long as the voltage drop is within the motor specs than you won't see a drop in the power factor. Does anybody have any actual motor specs on the units? Mfg etc.
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2014
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  3. Blkout

    Blkout

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    I don't doubt your logic that when the motor gets hot, its losing power, the only issue is how do you define how hot is hot? Certainly each motor, circuit design, and cooling will play a role in defining how hot is too hot.
     
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  4. Christian Casey

    Christian Casey

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    There is definitely a point where excessive (subjective) wheel force vs driver performance becomes a problem, not just in lap times, but overall enjoyment.

    Personally I run my CSWv1 with the BMW at 70-80% on GSCE/Ftruck, with Iracing it varies to the extreme, less with the carbon, but I always set to be able to work the wheel easily with rapid, constant correction (Ftruck is a good example).

    I too have not felt fade at any time, cooling fans are always silent (they may not increase to temp, I don't know, the most likely do) so looking forward to reading the CSWBv1 testing to see what kind if conditions/variables are needed to produce in this case a 40% fade.
     
  5. eKretz

    eKretz

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    No special conditions guys, I outlined them above. You need to measure, not go by subjective feel, if you really want to know whether your base is losing power. I've found that the Sim and even which car you drive can make a very large difference in the amount of heat produced in the wheel. For instance, Assetto Corsa's BMW Z4 GT3 gets the wheel quite hot, but a car like the Ferrari 458 doesn't add much heat at all. The GT series seems to roast the wheel like an oven, whereas iRacing doesn't faze the wheel much at all. So it's a very Sim and car dependent thing.

    For me at least, when the wheel is set to FF100, as it says in the CSW "manual" this is where the Sim maker intended the FFB level to be, so this is where I leave it. I never go above FF100, and rarely go below. In iRacing of course we have a nice system for finding the ideal setting without clipping, but a lot of Sims don't have that capability.

    There are plenty of guys who don't really want much FFB, but for me, it adds some amount of immersion, so I enjoy feeling a realistic level of FFB, and the cars I enjoy most are those like the Z4 GT3 and the vintage F1 cars. I want to feel each car as it should be, not adjust it to where I'm comfortable and can make easy laps.

    There are plenty of other guys who have experienced the FFB loss on the V1 wheel as it heats up. I know because quite a lot of them have contacted me. There are a few mechanisms that cause the power loss, not the least of which is the wheel's firmware. It's programmed to reduce the pulse width to the motors once they reach a certain temperature, and won't restore it until the motors cool down to a certain threshold. If they get even hotter, the FFB will cut out completely. I have never had mine cut out except when the motors were damaged. (My stock motors, like many others, were replaced under warranty several times before I modded my wheel with aftermarket motors).
     
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  6. Christian Casey

    Christian Casey

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    You could feel it when it dropped? Did it graph as a sudden drop?

    Would you class this as heavy FFB?
    You used default setting on the CSWB including the default 100% dampening and 100% spring force?
    Didn't you find the wheel weight setting excessively heavy in 2012?

    Don't get me wrong, I fully believe your results and heated motors will obvious output less force, I just would like to read the your data as I find this extremely interesting as I haven't felt any drop.

    Example, right now I finished a 1 hour race on Ftruck 2013, all forces maxed in game, wheel set to 80%
    0 Dampening, 0 shock, 0 drift, 0 spring.

    I was taking particular notice and I couldn't feel any drop in force.
    My arms only just started to feel it (I have trained heavy weights most of my adult life) so I highly doubt muscle fatigue had a lot to do with it.
    As I said I believe your findings, im just struggling with "normal" usage vs power loss.

    One correction I heard my fans slow down as I started typing this, first time I have noticed this due to being quite quiet.

    Edit; I had a 2 min brake at 30 mins:)
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2014
  7. Christian Casey

    Christian Casey

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    I agree here, I think I'm just not driving it hard enough even though to me (and I'm not weak...lol) any more force and catching the vehicle would become difficult.

    But I will leave it as an intriguing conversation. Thanks for the responses.
     
  8. eKretz

    eKretz

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    Let's see, if I recall, the exact settings were SEN360, FF100, Lin OFF, DEA OFF, DRI OFF, FOR100, SPR000, DPR000. Same settings in everything I run unless the FFB is super weak. And now that I think about it, the Sim that took it down 40% may have been GT5. I will try to find the info in the GTP thread and link it when I have a bit more time.

    BTW the drop in power was measured as I stated before - max stall torque when cold versus max stall torque when hot. The graph was from a program called Wheelcheck from David Tucker at iRacing - it showed the difference in the wheel's response to one of his tests from the program.
     
  9. Christian Casey

    Christian Casey

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    Ok I took "default" as out of box. Hugely appreciated if you could.
     
  10. RaceNut

    RaceNut

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    Hey eKretz, I was referring to the ongoing testing in the Wheel-check thread on the iRacing forums. I know you frequent there so you may already have read about that.
     
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  11. Mark Reynolds

    Mark Reynolds
    Physics & AI Programmer

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    Well the NDA embargo lifted today, so without further a do :D

    I don't get involved in personal endorsements, and certainly not on something I would not buy with my own money, but I have to say, I have been testing the V2 for a while here now and it is nothing short of sensational, it is a no brainer insta buy in my opinion, no offence to Fanatec intended here but the difference between the V1 and V2 is night and day for the better, not that the V1 is bad, just that the V2 is so much better.
     
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  12. Christian Casey

    Christian Casey

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    Awesome. Instabuy initiated....
     
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  13. Richard Hessels

    Richard Hessels
    Premium

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    You australians voted for a parlement that protects their national market by adding a huge amount of import tax.. so complain to your government.
     
  14. Christian Casey

    Christian Casey

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    Lol, not like we have a choice, we have dumb in one party and dumb in another.

    Hrmm....steam import tax...:)
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2014
  15. Richard Hessels

    Richard Hessels
    Premium

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    Be happy you don't live in Brasil, they put 40% import tax on...
     
  16. Christian Casey

    Christian Casey

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    Lol, I thought you were from elsewhere.
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2014
  17. eKretz

    eKretz

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    Oh naughty naughty Mark. There is still 10 minutes of embargo left, lol. :D
     
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  18. Blkout

    Blkout

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    I forgive him, its not like it was a long drawn out review. More like a glowing recommendation which I also appreciate given his experience and qualifications. That's not to say I wouldn't be interested in your own opinion since you know quite a bit about Fanatec wheels also.
     
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  19. eKretz

    eKretz

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    Last edited: Sep 3, 2014
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  20. Christian Casey

    Christian Casey

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    Nice review, I especially like the measured assessment. Good job mate.
     
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