PC1 False advertising

Björn Spindel · Aug 31, 2012

I've seen many evangelists and perhaps even the developers themselves refer to Project C.A.R.S. as a "sim" or "simulator". Normally this term is used to describe software that tries to mimic reality. There is nothing wrong with arcade racers so why not just call the game by its real name and stop trying to advertise it as something it's not? There's no shame in admitting that Project C.A.R.S. doesn't try to be realistic. There's a big market for this type of game, even bigger so than for the niche sims, so please stop trying to fool people and aim for your target audience instead.

kelaroost · Dec 5, 2012

lol,
well

hongako · Dec 12, 2012

That rFactor harder to drive does not mean it more realistic!

Have you ever driven a race car? So why discussions of how best simulator?

Again, it is more difficult does not make it more realistic!

Mapu · Dec 12, 2012

hongako · Dec 12, 2012

Marcel Purschke said:

for you

Flawl3ssVctry · Dec 14, 2012

love this forum, keep it classy guys

Mr Whippy · Dec 15, 2012

How many PC games are really sims though?

Not many IMO, if any.

All are tuned to be easier to drive to make them fun, so today even if you have all fancy suspension kinematics and tyre models and that stuff, they are still tuned to be accessible in my view.

Not much you can do about that, and the more sales the developers want to make the more accessible it'll need to be.

That's not to say there is anything wrong with that. Ie, GT5 with road tyres on road cars feels great, even though most of the car values are made up generic nonsense.

IMO the package is what matters, and if pCARS is getting that wrong for some people that is a valid point of view IMO.

I never liked rFactor for instance, nor LFS, but loved netKar (all 5 ish years back)

For me rFactor and LFS feel arcade, similar to GT5 without the stupid sticky tyres. Designed to be fun and accessible but not really a proper sim.
All good fun, but not 'sims''

Hmmm

Dave

Mapu · Dec 16, 2012

Andy_J · Dec 19, 2012

Mr Whippy said:
For me rFactor and LFS feel arcade, similar to GT5 without the stupid sticky tyres. Designed to be fun and accessible but not really a proper sim.
All good fun, but not 'sims''

Hmmm

Dave

Which PC race game as felt like a sim to you in the past then? Interested.

Dave Stephenson · Dec 20, 2012

Mr Whippy said:
IMO the package is what matters, and if pCARS is getting that wrong for some people that is a valid point of view IMO.

QFT

The sooner everyone agrees on the reality of this the better. Sim not sim counts for very little. It's an ideal. If it's fun, engaging and interesting to its user base then it's a success no matter what name is on the box. That's all there is to it.

RaceNut · Dec 20, 2012

Is the glass of water I'm seeing real??? That's not really important, the real questions is - does it quench your thirst?

Sim, Arcade, Sim-cade, these are silly arguments really. For the vast majority of people, all games are purely for entertainment. If "X" game does that for you, that's what matters.

Sometimes I like nothing better than playing an ultra-realistic racer, other times I just play Dirt2/3 and have a blast. There is room for all of these game types and even some that combine different aspects into one package.

Kevin Cordice · Dec 21, 2012

Helps to Understand

Nathan Robinson · Dec 21, 2012

Kevin Cordice said:
Helps to Understand

This does nothing to settle the debate. All sims are someones interpretation of they think feels real. Thats why all sims feel a little different from one another. If they were recreating reality to perfection, all sims would feel the same, so no, it doesnt help to understand that. Thank you tho.

Is it simulation in iracing when you hit the grass and slide across like it was ice? Or how about enduracers when your gt2 starts to spin a little and then goes all the way around with no reason at all? What pcars is trying to do is recreate racing the way they think the car feels and some cars, like the z4 are starting to feel excellent.

Kevin Cordice · Dec 21, 2012

Nathan Robinson said:
This does nothing to settle the debate. All sims are someones interpretation of they think feels real. Thats why all sims feel a little different from one another. If they were recreating reality to perfection, all sims would feel the same, so no, it doesnt help to understand that. Thank you tho.

Is it simulation in iracing when you hit the grass and slide across like it was ice? Or how about enduracers when your gt2 starts to spin a little and then goes all the way around with no reason at all? What pcars is trying to do is recreate racing the way they think the car feels and some cars, like the z4 are starting to feel excellent.

What are your Top 3 Sim games?

Nathan Robinson · Dec 21, 2012

Kevin Cordice said:
What are your Top 3 Sim games?

Why does it matter? What people percieve to be simulation may be different than others. A lot of people hail gamestock car for it's impressive features, but do the cars actually feel like a real racecar? I'm very skeptical of this. If I'm in a car that needs to be setup, needs monitoring of tire/oil/water temps, has mechanical failures, reacts to changes in wing angles, and overall is challenging to drive at a fast pace without practice, than it is a sim to me. I dont want to get into the argument of what I think is a sim just to have you tell me it's not and then me telling you that what you drive is not a sim and so on. It's ridiculous because it's all down to personal interpretation. I've spent most of my racing career on rfactor and iracing. Lately i've been adding project cars and rfactor 2 into the mix for testing purposes, but if it's good competitive league racing, it's still rfactor or gamestock car all the way for me. Everything I drive has moments where it is very believable but then you experience something that shows you are still playing a game. Nothing out there simulates a race car to perfection, nothing at all. I would say it's close to impossible to perfectly translate the physical aspect of racing a car into 1's and 0's for us armchair racers. Just because one company's interpretation of the racing experience doesnt match your own doesn't mean it's not trying to simulate the racing experience.

Kazumi · Dec 22, 2012

Mr Whippy said:
IMO the package is what matters, and if pCARS is getting that wrong for some people that is a valid point of view IMO.

Mhh...

. Which SMS game so far is bad as a whole package though? In fact the combination of physics, graphics, sound, content (car, track, career mode, performance tuning) and AI is what made me to start to play and mod Shift back then.

That's the least at least I would expect it to be a solid package and in multiplatform development that's usually also one of the priorities. But of course every developer got other priorities.

Mr Whippy said:
For me rFactor and LFS feel arcade, similar to GT5 without the stupid sticky tyres. Designed to be fun and accessible but not really a proper sim.

The good thing in LFS is how FR road cars behave on input of steering, throttle, brake and clutch in most driving conditions (even rallycross tracks with worn gravel surface work not that bad). For me that's one of the most important things and also shows the qualities of the physics engine, although I'm aware that many sim racers prefer pure race cars & tracks.

Well, the online part is surely made to be accessable and the offline content isn't that good except for hotlapping.

"Arcade" for me is classic arcade games like Daytona, Scud Race and so on

. You can't use real (or any) set-ups and can't use most real driving techniques either. I can't enjoy them now as much as back then though, and that also goes for modern arcade-ish racing games.