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Bram Hengeveld

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Server name: RACEDEPARTMENT.COM CLUB
Track: Curitiba
Practice: 19:00 GMT (30 minutes)
Qualification: 19:30 GMT (10 minutes)
Warm-up: No Warm up
Race: 19:40 (2x25 minutes)
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To be completely blunt, if people want to play arcade, they can go play Grid. If they want to just drop in to a race without practice or taking time to learn a car, they can find a public server. There are plenty of options.

@Nox Unbelievable.:thumbsdown::mad:I never play arcade games and I find this statement of yours quite derogatory. I never race on public servers either. I'm a clean and respectful older sim racer who just enjoys casual sim race time when I can. I have always done the official practice prior to a race and I have never driven anyone off the road or out braked myself and spoilt anyone else's race either unlike some. If it was a the case then I could understand the decision.

I stated to Bram (sorry Bram) that I wouldn't bring the subject up again but I had to respond to this **** you have just written Andrew. I am a premium member and all I wanted was to race with low TC, low Stab and auto gears occasionally.
Wasn't much to ask for was it? After all it didn't hurt anyone else and as others have stated many times, if they don't want to race with aids then they don't have to. It's all about choice, fun and fair clean racing I thought? Obviously not.
And I don't care about never winning a race either. It was the taking part that interested me.

Stick your elitism. I'm offline racing from now on. Thanks for your support.
Andy
 
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That's good to know, but it doesn't address the rest of my post. Again, I'm not arguing this because it bothers me personally, but because I think it will be detrimental for club racing in the medium/long term, so my reasons are mostly pragmatic.

Other than what I said above about driving aids having a built-in drawback, I think that keeping people away because they can't use the aids they need to feel comfortable in the track will eventually lead to fewer sign-ups. Given that we already don't often get full grids, I fear the overall effect it will have for club racing.

The second issue is a bit stickier... but now that RD is effectively charging people money to get a license here (something I'm perfectly fine with), changing the rules like that with little warning is a bit, how can I put it, not very polite for people who might have bought a premium membership mostly for access to club racing and now feel they're being kept away from it by the new rules. If the rules are kept, there should be at least a very clear warning in the premium purchase page.

The third argument is less pragmatic, and a bit more idealistic, but, again, for me the club racing is the inclusive part of RD's racing. For leagues, sure, rules should and must be strict. But club racing? I was perfectly fine with the main requirement being simply "don't drive like an idiot, or you'll be banned from racing". I honestly don't think idiots will stop driving like idiots because they can no longer use driving aids. Again, club racing is supposed to be inclusive and fun, a space for people to compete but also to learn. And I fear these changes will close the door for people who mostly want to learn.

There is more but this is getting too long already :)

Thank you Fabio. Good and thoughtful post. :thumbsup:
 
If it came across as derogatory, apologies as that wasn't intended. Your current angry mindset may have also played a part. My point was simply that there are plenty of options to suit all sorts of racers. As you practice, the comment wasn't directed towards you anyway. I have said I know it won't please everyone. Please stop taking a decision designed to improve the race club as a personal attack.

In the past I catered to you requesting extra assists (which I did when you were the only person asking for them) so you'd be happy. I've posted the reasons we're changing above, taken the time to carefully consider your perspective and politely answer your questions (even if you disagree with them). Now, we're moving away from assists. I'm sorry you don't like it, but on the flip side there are people who do like it. I can't keep everyone happy. You're very welcome to race with us, this wasn't a plot to get rid of Andy (indeed I already see you signed up for other events at RD). I'm not going to talk more about it, I don't need the stress and my reply to Fabio already proves I already considered all his points, and that this wasn't an arbitrary decision. End of story.
 
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Great fun yesterday, looking forward to Spielberg. Hopefully i can make Wilfred have to work for it a little bit more there :).
Thanks everybody!

Can't say RD didn't cater for my simracing needs this weekend, with trucks, vees and the RSR league race as cherry on top.
 
You're very welcome to race with us, this wasn't a plot to get rid of Andy (indeed I already see you signed up for other events at RD).

Yes I have signed up for only one race in the Assetto Corsa Club because Si has allowed stability and low aids so it looks like not all the staff have made the same arbitrary decision.
Apology not accepted because your "elitist, we sim racers prefer no aids and get on with your arcade racing" remark is derogatory to me in my opinion.
Yes end of story and once again thanks for your decision. One less noob arcade driver on the club grids won't matter to you I suppose.
 
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Yes I have signed up for only one race in the Assetto Corsa Club because Si has allowed stability and low aids so it looks like not all the staff have made the same arbitrary decision.
Apology not accepted because your "elitist, we sim racers prefer no aids and get on with your arcade racing" remark is derogatory to me in my opinion.
Yes end of story and once again thanks for your decision. One less noob driver on the club grids won't matter to you I suppose.
Is it seriously that difficult to take a little bit of time and try it with no assists and get to learn the car/truck? Yea its a steep learning curve and it may take awhile to get used to but it makes you a better driver in the end and you go faster.
 
Is it seriously that difficult to take a little bit of time and try it with no assists and get to learn the car/truck? Yea its a steep learning curve and it may take awhile to get used to but it makes you a better driver in the end and you go faster.

Is it seriously that difficult to allow one or two racers to use low aids knowing it doesn't affect your race in the slightest? Be honest?
I already explained that I rarely like to use manual shifting because of a hand injury that is permanent. What is it with you guys that you seem to think allowing the use of game driving aids for some users is going to spoil your individual racing? For the life of me I just don't understand the logic behind the decision. These Club races were supposed to be for fun. Me using low aids would not spoil anyone else's racing. But on the other hand, those who must get to the front at all costs have ruined mine and others racing with aggressive overtakes and such like.
 
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No because that doesnt reflect your true pace even if it is just a club race. Its an unfair advantage to the guys in the back who are struggling with no aids where your just racing right by them when otherwise thats where youd be if you didnt have aids on. However i can understand the auto gear aid if you have a hand injury.
 
I'm usually the guy at the back. I have lost count how many sim racers say how much faster they are without low TC and low ABS and low Stab and with manual gears, so obviously me, using these aids would not threaten them. But I am tired of this now. As Nox as stated, the decision has been made and I have to now choose to not race because I cannot do manual gears for long periods. I am doing an AC race tonight that does allow low aids so at least I can still have a go in the odd club race.
Thanks for your concern anyway.
I will always remain a premium member here though because I want to support and contribute to the site and help them continue. :thumbsup:
 
I've already answered all your concerns Andy. Now Troy has repeated what you've already been told.

I've tried to be polite and respond to you correctly, but to be honest, I am getting a bit tired of your aggression every time you disagree. You're just looking for an argument and cherry picking the bits that you can attack and ignoring the bits that reasonably address your opinion.

If you're not going to take me at my word regarding my intentions, we have nothing more to talk about. I have explained what I meant, and the reasons behind the decision. if you want to take it like some derogatory elitist thing despite my saying that wasn't what I was saying, go ahead. That's your interpretation in the face of contrary evidence, and it's your problem.

Do you think constant moaning is going to wear me down and change my mind? It isn't, because the decision wasn't arbitrary, as I have already explained. I've already spent a lot of time chatting and explaining politely (when I am not obligated to do so at all). I was happy to chat about it with you, but all I get back is your aggression. Don't like the decision? I no longer care. I'm done trying to appease you.

Any more comments, take it to the thread you opened in the paddock club. This thread has gone off topic far too long as it is.

Edit: Auto-gears due to injury, fine, I will add that. That's a valid, physical, reason and I am not being unreasonable. But stability, etc? No, those are purely performance related.

Edit 2: Also, this decision isn't about one person. You may not feel you are an on-track threat with an advantage, but we can't have one rule for one person and another for others who would take advantage.
 
"Do you think constant moaning is going to wear me down and change my mind? It isn't, because the decision wasn't arbitrary, as I have already explained. I've already spent a lot of time chatting and explaining politely (when I am not obligated to do so at all). I was happy to chat about it with you, but all I get back is your aggression. Don't like the decision? I no longer care. I'm done trying to appease you."

I don't want your appeasement Andrew and it's clear you don't care. No need to explain any further. I understand it. OK. :rolleyes:
And I wasn't being aggressive, that's just your mindset imagining it. :whistling: I just couldn't understand why you can't give the choice, that's all. Club racing is about taking part, having fun, not winning or training to become the next Gregor Hutu.

As for you being obligated to discuss it with me, well yes I think you are. After all I am a contributing member. And all paying members should be allowed to question rule changes in my opinion. You mentioned that you strive for realism in the club races but allow any view to race with. Hardly fair, as some views offer a better more advantageous view of the racing condition and line. Perhaps you can alter the rules to restrict the racing to cockpit view only too?

I just wanted to discuss it from my side of the fence without any aggression or malice Andrew.

Anyway, as you say, it's my problem and I'll have to live with it and try and learn to race without low stab and low TC. Thank you.

Have a nice day.

End of. No more on the subject. Honest. :)
 
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Whoa, what happened there before R2 ? I thought it was end of quali not warmup... :O_o:
But still, did it play the 30s before the race started ? Cause i didn't see no countdown from the garage and then suddenly everyone was off the line and i was in the pits. Perhaps i wasn't paying attention, cause i was texting smth right at that very moment... :(
 
Yeah Jeff and I (and some others I believe) had the same feeling. I heard the horn and dashed for the 'Go to track' button.

Sad I missed race 1 though but basically my own fault.
Race 2 was great, really love these cars!
 
Yep it was automatic at that point and seemed to come up, like right now. Got there in time though. :roflmao:. Great raceing guys, Congrats to Jaret and the podium, had some good battles and lots of fun. Helluva car. :thumbsup:

Edit: There was a warmup though. You might have been distracted since it was only 3 minutes.
 
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