F2004 - Kunos vs ASR thoughts

[davewilliams000]

Hopefully the right place to post this... if not apologies...

I've had a go in the Kunos one (spent 90 mins in it!) this morning around Monza and did a 1:21.698, which is +1.097 slower than my best time in the ASR F2004 (1:20.601). I would say that the ASR car was quick out of the box, but the Kunos one needed a lot of setup work to get it to where I could do that time (has loads of understeer with default setup to me). Once I got the setup right, they feel very close in terms of handling, grip, etc in my opinion.

As far as the 1 second difference goes, there will obviously be a few very small differences between my 2 laps, but I am also wondering if the difference comes from engine power. The ASR one is listed as 950bhp, where as the Kunos is 865bhp. That's a significant difference in a car that weighs so little. Obviously Ferrari never really released the true specs for the engine, but I'd imagine in real life and certainly in qualifying trim, it would be closer to 950 than 865.

Interested to know everyone else's thoughts who have tried both

Here's my 2 laps (TV cam then onboard):

ASR (+0.512 slower than Barrichello's 2004 pole lap):

Kunos:

 

[Michael Hornbuckle]

Multiple Kunos employees.

 

[David Dominguez]

Out of curiousity, how do you come to that conclusion?

There is plenty of public data available if one searches well.

 

[millen]

I saw a recent interview with one of the Kunos guys, and they said for the time/budget spent to make a track, they can make 20 cars, so you can understand why there aren't that many official tracks.

Sorry, little bit off topic. But this makes me seriously admire the track builders we have around here. Thanks guys.

 

[davewilliams000]

Oh dear... what did I start?!?
Oh well, guess it wouldn't be sim racing if there wasn't arguments lol Maybe we'll call it a 'heated discussion'

 

[Terry Rock]

I'm sorry, I can't read anything because all I'm hearing is pure V10 nirvana

I believe both are good, but I definitely give the nod to the Kunos car.

Add to your nirvana....

 

[Amir Vodokotlic]

Out of curiousity, how do you come to that conclusion?

F1 teams don't give out proprietary data.

If you watch Stefano's interview he says that Ferrari gives them a ballpark figure to work with.

For road car I have no doubts they can get good amount of real information.

However for open wheel cars its lot less than you think.

This holds true to AC/iRacing/rf2/etc

 

[Peter Kerényi]

F1 teams don't give out proprietary data.

If you watch Stefano's interview he says that Ferrari gives them a ballpark figure to work with.

For road car I have no doubts they can get good amount of real information.

However for open wheel cars its lot less than you think.

This holds true to AC/iRacing/rf2/etc

I know, that's why in the comment before that I wrote they get approximated data.

 

[Michael Hornbuckle]

Why would the data that is freely available on the net be any more reliable/accurate that that which is given to the dev teams that pay for it?

 

[garyjpaterson]

Why would the data that is freely available on the net be any more reliable/accurate that that which is given to the dev teams that pay for it?

You may be surprised what kind of data really is 'freely available' online - not necessarily in the places you'd expect (ie. there is plenty data from real F1 teams (or more precisely ex-F1 teams), and specialised publications rather than what you might imagine...)

You would certainly hope/expect that the data that was given to the devs would be more accurate (or at least in the ballpark as mentioned before), but for whatever reason this seems to not be the case.

Great shame, these models really are so, so good, and to my ears they sound fantastic aswell.

 

[Bobby Pennington]

Add to your nirvana....

You do know that this violates every obscenity law known to man and is considered to be pornographic Thanks for the video man. Awesomeness

 

[David Dominguez]

Why would the data that is freely available on the net be any more reliable/accurate that that which is given to the dev teams that pay for it?

Because some data are real setup sheets showing the aero coefficients.

Example, a 2001 setup sheet from Prost @ Barcelona, here it states that SCz (CL in AC) equals to 3.95. And this is a bad 2001 car, imagine the best 2004 F1 like the F2004 was (you can't go over 4 CL in game).

 

[Trezoitao38]

What is SCz and CL?

 

[garyjpaterson]

What is SCz and CL?

Lift Coefficient (downforce, in the Z direction), the drag coefficient is SCx.

You can check it in AC by using the wings app, notice you won't get near those numbers...

 

[Trezoitao38]

And what is the result? the car becomes slower?

 

[Amir Vodokotlic]

Because some data are real setup sheets showing the aero coefficients.

Example, a 2001 setup sheet from Prost @ Barcelona, here it states that SCz (CL in AC) equals to 3.95. And this is a bad 2001 car, imagine the best 2004 F1 like the F2004 was (you can't go over 4 CL in game).

one more pic that goes with that car.

As an aside I find it really really strange that Aris hasn't posted single comment in the official forum about anything.

Whether its physics forum/main forum.

Its like he doesn't work for AC anymore or he is about to leave AC.

 

[urwetdreamz]

I haven't played with suspension setup much, but so far the Kunos one feels more natural to me and drives very well.
As for the 2017 car from Kunos, I'm a bit disappointed tbh - I've played multiple races so far, driving the F2004 with AI driving F138, F15, and SF70H. The SF70H never comes close to the race pace of the F2004, although we know that for example in Spa it IS faster than the old V10 car... What do u guys think?

 

[paracletus]

Tracks have changed since the F2004 raced so it's not easy to compare, but nevertheless it seems like SF70 should be a lot quicker than it is in the game.
However, a significant reason for the real SF70 being the fastest F1 car of all time is drs is used for qualifying lap; this alone is probably worth at least 1-2 seconds on tracks like spa or monza.

 

[Mircea Rad]

I understand why you would compare the F2004, but the RSS F1 Hybrid to SF70H? RSS car is a generic F1 car based on 2017 rules before the real cars actually even surfaced, so one would think there was no data available when it comes to aero, drag, wider tire data, etc. At least before launch. And don't get me wrong, this just emphasizes once more what an awesome job RSS guys did ( ) but I fail to see how these 2 cars would have to be identical. Also another thing is the fact the the SF70H was modeled based on the Monte Carlo version, therefore probably it's not the best idea to do a test at Monza. Of course, I have no idea what parameters are actually used to model downforce and drag and if they are influenced by the high DF Monte Carlo configuration modeled, maybe @David Dominguez peeked "under the hood" of the SF70H.

 

[urwetdreamz]

I dont see, how the MODELING of the car should have an influence on the aero setup...? You can change it, so you can adapt it to certain tracks. And of course in Monza you race with low downforce setup.

 

[Trezoitao38]

You can change aero wings angle. But not other aero changes that teams made along the champioship.