Alright when was that again.....?

[Turk]

Lot's of these countries have unresolved human rights issues, why we a racing there at all?

Human rights don't matter when you're making millions. It's good business 101.

 

[fatal4you]

Human rights don't matter when you're making millions. It's good business 101.

 

[Jason Chamberlain]

So here's the question - if they take the moral high ground and don't race at these venues, how do you make up the budgetary shortfall? Where do you either make more money elsewhere or where do you spend less? And while you're suggesting this, keep in mind that F1 has to maintain the "pinnacle of motorsports" image with all the accouterments.

I think that the answer ends up being that you make a nice video where Seb Vettel asks us all "to see the beauty of it," but you still have to race at these places to pay the bills. Hashtags and T-shirts are pretty cheap.

 

[fatal4you]

So here's the question - if they take the moral high ground and don't race at these venues, how do you make up the budgetary shortfall? Where do you either make more money elsewhere or where do you spend less? And while you're suggesting this, keep in mind that F1 has to maintain the "pinnacle of motorsports" image with all the accouterments.

I think that the answer ends up being that you make a nice video where Seb Vettel asks us all "to see the beauty of it," but you still have to race at these places to pay the bills. Hashtags and T-shirts are pretty cheap.

Make F1 work with less money. It's all too expensive und unsustainable at all. 800 to 2000 engineers to make two cabriolets drive in a circle? C'mon. The fact that they have to go to bed with dicatorships to make enough money proves that they are not the pinnacle of motorsport but rather the "whore of motorsports". Very expensive hookers.

F1 is supposed to be an engineering contest, not a money contest.

 

[Jason Chamberlain]

Make F1 work with less money. It's all too expensive und unsustainable at all. 800 to 2000 engineers to make two cabriolets drive in a circle? C'mon. The fact that they have to go to bed with dicatorships to make enough money proves that they are not the pinnacle of motorsport but rather the "whore of motorsports". Very expensive hookers.

F1 is supposed to be an engineering contest, not a money contest.

And because it is an engineering contest it is very expensive. I don't understand how you can want it to be simpler, but also want them to be just as innovative.

You also need to incentivize teams to want to invest in this. If there isn't money to go around, then why enter a team?

How do you keep the incentive, but "make F1 work with less money?"

I think what you really want is IndyCar. That's a very entertaining series.

 

[Antony Snook]

Because they pay a lot of money for the privilege of having F1 come there. I don't think that F1 is in the financial position to be too picky about this.

I'm not saying that this is right, but this is reality.

If a nation has a track good enough and can pay money who cares. Human Rights violation exist all over the world. Maybe on a smaller scale. People with Covid are being treated poorly by medical staff. BLM protests are causing deaths on both sides of the argument. Motor racing is a sport and external politics doesn't matter. Governments have to fix politics not sports.

 

[Antony Snook]

Human rights don't matter when you're making millions. It's good business 101.

We all pay taxes and because the Government is corrupt they waste the money of us the citizens. I would not care if it went to Jobs, affordable housing like the politicians promise.

 

[Turk]

So here's the question - if they take the moral high ground and don't race at these venues, how do you make up the budgetary shortfall?

How much of a shortfall would there actually be if they stayed in countries that didn't have human rights abuses? There are plenty of countries that are capable of hosting a race, and would be able to pull in customers with money to spend. I don't know did F1 have to go to these places or go bankrupt, or did they go to those countries just because they would get more money.
You do have to draw the line somewhere when it comes to business, it can't always come down to what brings in the most profit. Otherwise everyone but the shareholders get screwed in the deal.

 

[Jason Chamberlain]

I certainly don't know the numbers, but I'm going off of what I hear from people I trust like Marc Priestley. I do know that Liberty lost quite a bit this year because of COVID. They should make money on all of this. One could argue how much is enough, but I suspect that even if they were to agree to less they'd still need races in questionable places.

 

[michelforest]

There are plenty of countries that are capable of hosting a race, and would be able to pull in customers with money to spend. I don't know did F1 have to go to these places or go bankrupt, or did they go to those countries just because they would get more money.

It all started when Ecclestone realized he could charge huge amounts of money to race in places that have little or no interest in racing. Vietnam is now on ice and I get the feeling it won't happen. Even if it did, I'm betting it would last 2-3 years and then it would disappear just like Korea, India or Turkey (back on the calendar because of Covid, but just once.) These events didn't last very long, even if colossal sums were spent building Tilkerings. Sadly, it continues with Liberty Media. (And what a joke that a company called Liberty Media is organizing a race in Saudi Arabia!)

I guess a lot of countries are willing to pay up in order to promote their country and boost tourism. I wonder how much money they *really* make (or lose) when hosting a GP.

 

[hum4n1ty]

I have been following F1 since the mid-70's. Has the sport ever been as boring as it is today?

Unless something unusual happens like rain or red flags, the racing is not compelling in my opinion.

I think the cars are amazing engineering machines and the drivers have probably never been better however at the end of the day, the entertainment on the track is limited. The starts are great however it doesn't take long before the race turns into a bore for most of the races.

Its to bad F1 can't be more nimble and fix the situation for next year.

It is true that the top 3 driver's battles have been historically boring this year, but if you can ignore that and the lack of a podium ceremony for the best of the rest, I think you can enjoy this season just by watching the midfield battle. Plenty of memorable moments have happened this year in the midfield in pretty much every single race that made it an uncertainty of who was going to finish at the top of the midfield.

 

[Squared Circle]

Another thought of why F1 is boring some of us to death nowadays - my personal perspective is: I always followed F1 all my life trying to not miss any race. Even got up at 4am when necessary.
I haven't watched F1 this year. Maybe 2 or 3 races in 2019, maybe 5 in 2018. Reason for this being that everybody who has the slightest idea of motorracing knows who (normally) will win (the race and the championship).
My personal take on the reason for this (Schumacher was dominant also as many have already stated) is simply that I grew older. I have better things to do with my time than watch the obvious. I have enough experience to see the business behind the "sport" and thus see the reason why it is impossible to solve the problem within FIA. I have switched my interest towards WEC where at least there is an interest in creating closer racing and of course MotoGP and WorldSBK.
The latter being the 1A-example of how things can still be interesting even if a guy wins 11 races in a row and still will fail to be champion (as in 2019).
Or in short: Maybe F1 has not been more interesting in the past, it's just us who have gained experience

 

[Jason Chamberlain]

I guess a lot of countries are willing to pay up in order to promote their country and boost tourism. I wonder how much money they *really* make (or lose) when hosting a GP.

Good question. I would assume that it's enough to make it worthwhile. Then again, here in the States cities keep building stadiums and arenas, despite all the studies which show that it doesn't add to the kind of long-term economic benefit promised when the taxpayers vote to build the new facility. So who knows how it all works out?

It must be worth it for F1. Again, they must figure that any PR hit is well-offset by the financial gains.

 

[BillyBobSenna]

Another thought of why F1 is boring some of us to death nowadays - my personal perspective is: I always followed F1 all my life trying to not miss any race. Even got up at 4am when necessary.
I haven't watched F1 this year. Maybe 2 or 3 races in 2019, maybe 5 in 2018. Reason for this being that everybody who has the slightest idea of motorracing knows who (normally) will win (the race and the championship).
My personal take on the reason for this (Schumacher was dominant also as many have already stated) is simply that I grew older. I have better things to do with my time than watch the obvious. I have enough experience to see the business behind the "sport" and thus see the reason why it is impossible to solve the problem within FIA. I have switched my interest towards WEC where at least there is an interest in creating closer racing and of course MotoGP and WorldSBK.
The latter being the 1A-example of how things can still be interesting even if a guy wins 11 races in a row and still will fail to be champion (as in 2019).
Or in short: Maybe F1 has not been more interesting in the past, it's just us who have gained experience

People have different opinions however my opinion is F1 has definitely created more compelling seasons prior to 2013. There have been some bad seasons like 2004 (Schumacher 13 wins) however nothing as long as the last 7 years.

F1 has turned into a bloated and slow organization filled with contracts and rules that make it very hard to correct course when the entertainment on the track has significantly degraded.

 

[Deleted member 963434]

maybe they should introduce driving upside down? as i read f1 car can drive upside down above certain speed. so tracks like in trackmania in future?

 

[Deleted member 963434]

i was thinking about it while ago, part of track upside down as joker lap as they have it in rallycross, every driver must make joker lap which is driving upside down

 

[arekpowalan]

I thought I would be able to avoid people talking about Saudi Arabia GP and its government in a controlled forum, but whatever.

A lot of time I see people talk about this stuff, it has a mixed message. On one hand, people know that the country has done something evil and they don't support it, which is very good. On the other hand, people boycott the country and are often too quick to condemn anybody associated with that country, which is very bad. Like a priest who's afraid to go preaching in a dangerous area, "moral high ground" aims to promote equality and rights for every human on Earth, yet it segregates some humans simply because they don't follow the same standard. It doesn't help that in a lot of modern media I've read and watched, evil people usually go bad because people abandon them and/or treat them like trashes in the first place.

Personally? I don't care. I'm watching F1 for racing cars and drivers. If Saudi can make good racing track, then it's fine by me.

 

[michelforest]

Good question. I would assume that it's enough to make it worthwhile. Then again, here in the States cities keep building stadiums and arenas, despite all the studies which show that it doesn't add to the kind of long-term economic benefit promised when the taxpayers vote to build the new facility. So who knows how it all works out?

It must be worth it for F1. Again, they must figure that any PR hit is well-offset by the financial gains.

I know that the idea of "economic benefit" was the main reason why our governments here in Canada agreed to pay tens of millions to keep the race in Montreal. The amount of money generated by the GP weekend in the local economy was supposed to be 90 million$. Recent studies seem to indicate that it's actually half of that.

In Montreal, the businesses that really profit are hotels, upscale restaurants, bars and strip clubs. Definitely not my cup of tea. There's also a huge social problem related to sex trafficking that, every year, gives a rather bad reputation to motor racing. :-(

 

[BillyBobSenna]

i was thinking about it while ago, part of track upside down as joker lap as they have it in rallycross, every driver must make joker lap which is driving upside down

I was always a fan of the Bernie shortcuts and sprinklers.

 

[Jason Chamberlain]

In Montreal, the businesses that really profit are hotels, upscale restaurants, bars and strip clubs. Definitely not my cup of tea. There's also a huge social problem related to sex trafficking that, every year, gives a rather bad reputation to motor racing. :-(

Strip clubs? In Montreal? Say it isn't so! </sarcasm> I know that a lot of baseball teams dreaded the trouble that their players could get into while playing at "The Big Owe." (speaking of public expenditures that don't return on investment)

I think that they're mostly branding exercises, which is what the Saudis want, IMO. We were really excited to visit your city this year. My wife was even going to come just because she wanted to experience Montreal. So you would have had at least 4 Americans coming to spend money there.