F1 OVERTIME CONCEPT

[Antony Snook]

In NASCAR some years ago we had the same problem as F1. Races ending under pace car. So they came up with a overtime rulle. Now races have a nuber witch is the milles rounded up or down to nearest lap. Daytona 500 is approximatly 500 milles. So you could not add laps for a green finish. So the rules is overtime is once the caution is clear you get a Green flag (Back to racing) a White (1 lap to go) and checker (Race over).
This can be done in F1 but you need to think about fuel (Or cars will stop as tank goes empty) Nascar uses refueling so the tank has more fuel than it needs. But fuel rigs for F1 are big and cost a lot of money. And a pitstop can be a fire hazard (Jos Verstappen had Benetton go up in flames) But if you made a reg for tank size and made shore it was full with more than you need for 200 miles + 10 miles overtime just in case. We can get a racer finish less hastle and F1 politics. Teams can drain fuel out if they need to and they need fuel for sample to send to FIA.

 

[trichens]

The UK BTCC races have something similar so that races can be extended by upto three laps - most are less than 20 laps anyway - in the event of a significant delay caused by an incident that brings out the safety car. The first three laps behind the safety car don't count as race laps.

 

[Antony Snook]

The UK BTCC races have something similar so that races can be extended by upto three laps - most are less than 20 laps anyway - in the event of a significant delay caused by an incident that brings out the safety car. The first three laps behind the safety car don't count as race laps.

The touring car races are usually quite short and the fuel tank is bigger than it needs to be. Touring cars are traditionally very heavy. F1 cars are the opposite and as light as posable for performance. F1 teams will not carry extra fuel weight as it sill slow car down.

 

[kaludon209]

No. NASCAR OT is a fun idea but it gets grossly abused to the detriment of the race and viewer. I can't tell you how many times I've seen the last 10 laps of a race get ran under a mysterious debris caution so the race goes into OT.
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[jgf]

NASCARE has become a joke with its idiot regulations, nanny rules, and ludicrous points system. I hate to think such rules will migrate to other series ("Indycar" is already using many NASCARE style rules, much to its detriment - a full course yellow on a 4.5 mile road course because one car spins in one turn). Too many races already end in that ridiculous "green-white-checker", particularly at Talladega and Daytona where restricter plates mean they haven't the power to actually race so they just bunch up and run laps for 90% of the "race" then try to jockey for position and invariably cause "The Big One" near the end.

But anything you try to alleviate this will just be abused by the teams. For example I would endorse terminating the race for a yellow less than 10 laps from the end, but that would merely induce the team in the lead at that point to "bribe" an incident to end the race early (how often have you noticed those times when a popular "young gun" is in danger of going a lap down, the announcers are commenting that he really needs a yellow now, and suddenly there is a yellow ... his team has sent a runner to some backmarker team offering them a bonus if they will scrape the wall just enough to bring out a yellow? I have witnessed this in the pits, vastly against the rules but overlooked for "good racin'").

I propose, across all series, two new rules - one, cars may not be worked on during yellow flags (this would actually put "racing" back in NASCARE since there would be no incentive to stay out running on fumes and with tires so worn you could read a newspaper through them rather than pitting "out of sequence"), and two, yellow flag laps do not count towards the race total (I pay to see a 200 lap race, not a 150 lap race and 50 parade laps).

I do not see a great issue here with F1, they have probably as many yellow flag situations in an entire season as NASCARE has in one race. Leave it to the discretion of the stewards - would it be better to end the race now or have a two lap sprint to the finish?

 

[Antony Snook]

No. NASCAR OT is a fun idea but it gets grossly abused to the detriment of the race and viewer. I can't tell you how many times I've seen the last 10 laps of a race get ran under a mysterious debris caution so the race goes into OT.

I heard NASCAR would bring out caution to bunch feild up for close finish. Now they have to show a visual and a explanation of why caution is out.

 

[jgf]

I heard NASCAR would bring out caution to bunch feild up for close finish. Now they have to show a visual and a explanation of why caution is out.

Absolutely. Bill France was known to say, if one car pulled out too much of a lead, "I think it's time for Mr. DeBris to make an appearance".

But NASCARE has long been more focused on putting on a show than on actual racing.

Though I deem FIA just as bad with their ridiculous weight penalties. (Let's extend this concept to other forms of competition - an Olympic sprinter wins three races in a row, he must now wear a 10kg weight belt for the rest of the event. Makes just as much sense.)

 

[Antony Snook]

Absolutely. Bill France was known to say, if one car pulled out too much of a lead, "I think it's time for Mr. DeBris to make an appearance".

But NASCARE has long been more focused on putting on a show than on actual racing.

Though I deem FIA just as bad with their ridiculous weight penalties. (Let's extend this concept to other forms of competition - an Olympic sprinter wins three races in a row, he must now wear a 10kg weight belt for the rest of the event. Makes just as much sense.)

Weight penalty's where considered in F1 in 1993 but it would not work. In Touring cars its OK as cars are heavy to start with. F1 is all about being as light as possable and excess weight will make the car very hard to drive. A smart driver will sandbag all season long and put in a charge at the end where wight dose not matter as there will be less races to carry over the weight. And a poor finish will make the car stay light. So avoid a good finish and a wight to carry.

 

[trichens]

F1 cars can carry a maximum of 110Kg with a minimum race length length of 305Km - except Monaco at 260Km.

So increase the maximum race length so that laps behind the safety car can be excluded up to a maximum of 10% - for arguments sake.
Running slower laps reduces fuel comsumption and cars often aren't fully fueled as the teams want to run them as light as possible.

Alternatively, instead of a safety car running round for many laps, restrict the number of consecutive laps that can be run , and actually red flag the race once the limit has been reached and bring the cars to a halt on the grid - not the pitlane.
A number of yellow flag laps will allow time for teams to swap tyres if they wish before the red flag.
Cars would then be restarted on the grid and get one lap before the race restarts - which would be very similar to the effect of running behind the safety car.

 

[jgf]

.... F1 is all about being as light as possable and excess weight will make the car very hard to drive. ...

That applies to every racing series. But every series has a minimum weight requirement. Those series which impose weight penalties on successful teams are merely punishing those teams for building a better car than their competitors ...when all cars are passing the same specs.