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Featured F1 Canadian Grand Prix: Vettel Penalty... Deserved or Unfair?

Discussion in 'Formula 1' started by Paul Jeffrey, Jun 9, 2019.

  1. Diogo Goetz Brand

    Diogo Goetz Brand

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    I think the outburst after the race shows exactly why Vettel always cracks under pressure: He has terrible control over his emotions.
     
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  2. Serge.M

    Serge.M
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    He didn’t “rejoin” his car went that way. Once he was on the grass where his car went from there was not really in his control any more. He was just lucky to not loop it which would have been very unsafe.
     
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  3. ears

    ears
    Listen, we're bona fide, we're not from London. Premium

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    That's conjecture. You don't know how much control he had and how much priority he put on avoiding an accident over retaining the lead.
     
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  4. Durge Driven

    Durge Driven

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    All that means is 25% know better then F1 pilots ....... even Lewis does not even think it deserved one :rolleyes:
     
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  5. Diogo Goetz Brand

    Diogo Goetz Brand

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    Of course, because the majority is always right. Instead of having stewards, they should host polls on the internet to decide who gets penalties and who doesn't.
     
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  6. Trezoitao38

    Trezoitao38

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    I agree. F1 is the opposite of Nascar. Nascar suffer from under regulation. Joey Logano did deliberate things and didnt received any punishment. F1 drivers do mistakes not deliberate and receive punishment. Maybe a yellow card can be a solution, if a driver do a mistake, the next will be punished.
     
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  7. Durge Driven

    Durge Driven

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    Yes you are saying Lewis is wrong :geek: so you know better then F1 pilot
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2019
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  8. ZuneGuy

    ZuneGuy

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    Did you see what he did with the race position stands. He's a poor sportsman. Azerbaijan 2017 - that's all I have to say.
     
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  9. delpinsky

    delpinsky

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    I have a suggestion for the stewards watching the replays...
    [​IMG]
    It's motorsport, damn it! If professional drivers can't even slightly get closer to each other, then better to change sport and play radio controlled cars on rails.

    If they want to support Mercedes at all costs, at least tell us, so we know...
     
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  10. BP

    BP
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    Who knew they were on to something? :whistling:
    [​IMG]
    I'm starting to think the verdict the stewards handed down may have been influenced by his decision not to give up any time...he could have kept the fight going by giving up a second maximum on his own.
     
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  11. Durge Driven

    Durge Driven

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    One of the few races Lewis retired from he threw his wheel out of car

    He also made up conspiracy theory on engine allocation

    More then once he was withdrawn after being beaten

    Should we label him poor sport for those instances ? ..... I don't think so ;)
     
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  12. michelforest

    michelforest

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    Except Vettel didn't gain time...
     
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  13. Atom1kk

    Atom1kk

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    Look at this picture. What if hamilton overtook vettel. He was outside of the track. So normally than he would have to give his position back. So image there would have been a wall on white line so hamilton would have had to break not to crash. In this case hamilton would never go to outside. And hamilton saw that vettel went out so he had to be prepared for a dangerous situation and also slow a bit down because it was direct infront of him and not in a blind corner. But he kept on and risked also to try his opportunity.
     

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  14. Constantin Grimminger

    Constantin Grimminger

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    That's exactly not how it works in this case. If HAM wouldn't have taken some avoiding action, there could've been a massive incident and that's what VET got penalized for.

    Goodness me, reading all these comments on why he could/could've not been penalized are driving me mad.
     
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  15. BP

    BP
    Premium

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    I beg to differ. Vettel messed up all on his own when he lost the rear and sailed into the grass...his mistake (again, all on his own) resulted in a near collision with Hamilton. The question is: was he just a "passenger", or was it intentional? I spent some time analyzing the video and I'm not completely sure he was out of control the entire time heading to the track edge (cutting off Hamilton).


    (I know it won't play on RaceDepartment due to FIA restrictions, but check it out on YouTube)
    • At 0:29 - 0:49 , look at Albon's and Grosjean's wheels and listen to the engines...audio and video seem to be in perfect sync based on the rev LEDs. Next, watch the incident starting at 3:25. Vettel's camera is also in sync with the audio based on the LEDs and the upshift at 3:27. This is important due to the next point.
    • At 3:35, just as Vettel's front tyres are about to cross the shadow of the crane behind the wall, he starts accelerating away as indicated by the engine sound, which would mean he's re-gained enough grip for the tyres to be effective.
    • Then look at the overhead shot at 3:40...at that same point he regains grip (using the crane's shadow as reference again), he turns into the wall...and accelerates into the path of Hamilton.

    Remember: Vettel cut the chicane due to his driver error...he wasn't bumped into it, so it's his priority at that point to make sure he doesn't ruin the race of the driver(s) following closely behind him by avoiding the racing line at all costs. Upon re-entry however, he demonstrated he re-gained enough grip in the tyres to accelerate...so much so that he easily pulls away from Hamilton (who braked hard to avoid the possible accident).

    Now, I might not be a racing driver IRL...but from the many books and videos I've watched over the years on the subject (Skip Barber's "Going Faster" video and that telemetry bit about the friction circle comes to mind), I've been told over and over that tyres grip the road best for cornering (lateral grip) when no power or braking force is applied (longitudinal grip). A tyre either wants to turn left/right or accelerate/brake; doing both at the same time reduces its efficiency of doing both things at 100%...which is why typically at the apex you usually want to be off both throttle and brake for maximum turning ability at that given speed.

    Therefore, I think Vettel had the potential to turn away from the wall had he not accelerated immediately...whether it was a 2nd mistake by Vettel to do what he did, or an intentional move to hold onto 1st place is anyone's guess...but the result is the same. He should have given up a little time, because he gained time he otherwise wouldn't have had if he avoided the racing line a little better and not accelerated immediately. The fact that Hamilton was momentarily right behind Vettel, does not mean that relative time was not gained by Vettel.due to his reaction.

    Anyone please feel free to correct me if I'm looking at this the wrong way or my theory is wacky :)...looking for respectful debate based on the facts of this case, not any previous incidents.
     
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  16. motoci

    motoci

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    To begin with, these time penalties are ineffective. Last year the Ferraris nailed the Mercedeses and got 5 and 10 seconds penalties respectively, which at the time were controversial. Now rejoin the track in an unsafe manner and get the same 5 seconds as for spinning another driver? This is unfair. The penalty system should be a lot simpler and more predictive. Drive through penalty for causing another driver to spin and for a situation like Vettel in Canada just give up the position. I also have a complaint about the time needed by the stewards to make stupid decisions. Remember Laguna Seca GT2 battle between the Corvette and the Porsche. The Vette made an illegal overtake in Turn 1 and by the end of the lap Jan Magnussen was informed by the stewards through his pit crew that he needed to give the position back. To sum up, Vettel's penalty was not unfair, but it surely was inappropriate, they just robbed him of the win.
     
  17. Patrik Marek

    Patrik Marek

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    Well , if it's all about safety, Hamilton should have thought, oh he has trouble, this part is really narrow, let play it safe ant get him on the next corner and slow down

    But of course he didn't, he saw a chance and wanted to squeeze through, same way how Vettel Is racer And didn't wanted to lose race

    Racing incident imo
    If you take all of this away , it will lose all the rest of glimpses of a fun race, and will really become boring
     
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  18. tedd

    tedd

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    max actually was given 5 seconds because he made contact with another driver. Horner said this during FP2. "there was nothing wrong with release", "you can have 2 cars coming the down the pit lane side by side".
     
  19. Luca Antinori

    Luca Antinori
    Premium

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    Very harsh on Seb and Ferrari... :whistling:
     
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  20. THUNDERbreaks

    THUNDERbreaks

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    On Gilles Villeneuve track they made a call like this, no need to tell you what Gilles has been famous for.

    They simply killed the sport. Well done.

    RIP Formula 1.
     
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