F1 Canadian Grand Prix: Vettel Penalty... Deserved or Unfair?

[Sasha Jednak]

The majority of them (even the one who you said he is agree with the penalty) lived their racing life trying to get away with all kind of penalties (deliberate ones or the mistakes) and bending the rules with the least respect to others(it's not a bad thing , this is how they became the winners), the exact opposite of a steward's job and, how they have valid opinion on a job that they were always the opposite side of it? ex footballer opinion is more valid on refereeing or an ex referee? professional drivers (and their teams) had their enough share in making those rules from the start of motorsport and all of them accepted those rules by coming to that competition, they can have their opinion, disagree or agree, but in real world they don't have the credibility of judging it, they are drivers, those are stewards, 2 different field with some common grounds (enforcing rules). if it is the case of suspecting that an steward is a malicious one, you can be sure the teams have their leverage to make a change,if there is no change it means that the teams deep down are in agreement with them and the theater we watch from the whining teams are just for fan service and making it more dramatic.
Offence happened, lowest penalty received, the lowest is still harsh?ok the rule is bad but the teams and those drivers have the leverage to even make a 2 sec penalty for future if they have valid reasons.
remember moving under braking? because of the drivers leverage we had 3 different rule for it during 3 season! (fine_not fine_ fine) and we called the stewards the inconsistent ones
but hey that's just my personal opinion and sometimes i'm wrong , and also maybe i'm a little drunk , better try ACC now

You know that one of stewards is ex race driver Also, they should know basics of driving race-car in different conditions and situations. While I understand your opinion and mostly agree with it, I think just because of experiencing these situations those ex-drivers are more qualified than stewards that never raced for real.

 

[Sasha Jednak]

Could anybody answer what is the definition of rejoining the track ?

I think Vettel squeezed Hamilton after he had already rejoined. Also did it gradually in such way that Hamilton could avoid it, also speed differences didn't seem huge by that point.

So I wonder does it even fit to rejoining. When Vettel was already almost back to racing pace.

Of course it would have been kooler battle if he would have let Hamilton to get by his inside.

That's good question, I think that rejoining is when you get back with 4 wheels on track and have full control of the car.
However, here Seb got back with 4 wheels, turned even more to the left to leave space to Lewis and got over-steer. When he countered that it threw him to the righ and Lewis had to brake. So I am also not sure which moment is counted as rejoining.

 

[Sasha Jednak]

Differently if Max, or Lewis switched the podium boards like Vettel did they would be roasted like chicken wings.. Personally that was a bit childish of Vettel and exposes his state of mind.. Just like Baku..

You mean showing his emotions and not behaving as robot instructed from PR room? This, Max in Brazil is what race drivers were about in some nice times if i am correct. But unfortunately those things are not for this broken world (not just F1). But all that is just my personal opinion, not judging yours.

 

[callumjtc]

This is what I was thinking. It would be pretty hard to make precision moves in a car going that fast on grass. He did however cut a corner off the track...

I mean at the point the rear went he was a passenger, did well not to crash and shows despite his Mission Spinnow he's been on recently does have some car control left...

 

[callumjtc]

I did also find it quite funny how they penalised for an unsafe manoeuvre, yet they left the Mclaren on the pit exit for the whole race

 

[mantasisg]

Well at least something interesting happened in F1. I think it would have been more interesting if Vettel has left a decimeter more and would have allowed Hamilton to get by his side. The next section of the track might have been very good. But I guess there are reasons that sidw by side racing doesn't seem to happen much in F1 anymore.

I think this is the moment that Vettel had completely rejoined. Perhaps about 30-15 km/h slower than Hamilton, just guessing. The decision was clearly made that he is now back on track and back to fighting.

Clearly there were two options. Increase turning and decrease acceleration to give Hamilton space. Or accelerate as best as possible, and defend position. I doubt that tires had capability to use all acceleration and turn more by this moment. I think if Vettel would have decided to stop moving to the right and closing the gap, he must have had delayed his acceleration in order to turn more. Obvious instant choice was turn less and accelerate more and defend position.

This is what got him penalty, I think. But I think this is way after the rejoining. It is different thing. Rather questionable aggression level of defensive action. Few milliseconds before this moment Hamilton realized that he will not be able to overtake. In the picture it is seen that Hamilton is already steering to get behind Vettel, but moment before that he was already loosing speed to Vettel. Why ? Because it was clear to him that Vettel is pushing him to the wall ? Or because at this point with both tires off the tarmac having less traction to accelerate and he had to lift, or both ? After this moment Vettel did move even more slightly to the right where he nearly touched kerbs, so at that point the cars would have rubbed a bit, or Hamilton would have rubbed the wall, I don't think it would have been much. Also it is possible that Hamilton simply didn't need all this trouble, good position in the championship, and being on the outside for the next turns would not have worked.

I don't think there would have been significant collision, speed differences were not huge, and Vettels aggressive defense was after he was already rejoined. I think stewards decision was too strict.

It is a pitty that Vettel didn't leave just a little more gap, I think Hamilton wouldn't have been able to get ahead. But there could have been awesome fight.

I wonder if F1 drivers are still capable to race with those cars, if they try to avoid racing as much as possible. Side by side racing is certainly not a thing at all anymore. Are those cars still raceable ? Is it time to make the cars more driver focused ?

 

[HK2014]

stewards took plenty of time to analyse that action while Vettel had like 0,5 seconds to react. im not mad at the penalty im just mad at that inconsistency of penalties.. there were plenty of similar actions in the past were no penalty were awarded.. monaco 2016 Ham vs Ric, austria 2016 Ham vs Ros.. just to name a few (im not a ham hater btw)

no wonder why F1 loses credibility

 

[mantasisg]

I feel sorry for stewards for having to judge the situation that is as much 50/50 as that. it will lead to the future when racing situations will become more and more sensitively judged.

Also lol Mercedes probably don't even care anymore. They probably would have been more than fine with 2nd. Thats why Hamilton backed up in the first place, would have little tire scrub done anything. Worst thing would be damage of those horrible front wings.

 

[Kimmo Kokkonen]

I think that most of you guys not understand the thing. Vettel did a big mistake, he cut the track and almost hit Lewis. There's no matter did he have room to avoid this or did he purposely block Lewis or anything, he did a big mistake and it cost him GP victory. Smart guy don't do that kind of mistake's, he could have let Lewis pass to avoid penalty. Vettel is not so smart guy, things goes so easily under the skin and he ruin his own competition, so stupid.

I always hated Vettel so much especially after what he did to his team mate Mark Webber in many races and after this race I hate him much more. I'm from Finland and I believe that Vettel and his "the number one driver" Ferrari contract ruins Kimi Raikkonen's career, Alonso with his Santander deal did the same before Vettel, their contract's leave Kimi without any possibilities to win anything after the Lotus time. I deeply hate Ferrari F1 Team, but not the car

Mark Webber would have been the best interviewer in Canada this year

 

[InsaneOzzie]

I'd love to see Piro handle the car as well as Vettel did in the same situation in excess of 120mph and going across the grass, the man needs to take a good hard look at himself.
And Mercedes needs to take a look at themselves too, there the one's that complained to the stewards after Lewis complained over the radio that Seb had rejoined in an unsafe manner. During the after race chat with Toto, he claimed that if not for Lewis's great driving they would of made heavy contact, I call BS on that one Toto.
Don't agree with the decision to penalise Vettel 5 seconds for a racing incident, the stewards need to be penalised for wrecking a great finish.

 

[michelforest]

The majority of them (even the one who you said he is agree with the penalty) lived their racing life trying to get away with all kind of penalties (deliberate ones or the mistakes) and bending the rules with the least respect to others(it's not a bad thing , this is how they became the winners), the exact opposite of a steward's job and, how they have valid opinion on a job that they were always the opposite side of it? ex footballer opinion is more valid on refereeing or an ex referee? professional drivers (and their teams) had their enough share in making those rules from the start of motorsport and all of them accepted those rules by coming to that competition, they can have their opinion, disagree or agree, but in real world they don't have the credibility of judging it, they are drivers, those are stewards, 2 different field with some common grounds (enforcing rules). if it is the case of suspecting that an steward is a malicious one, you can be sure the teams have their leverage to make a change,if there is no change it means that the teams deep down are in agreement with them and the theater we watch from the whining teams are just for fan service and making it more dramatic.
Offence happened, lowest penalty received, the lowest is still harsh?ok the rule is bad but the teams and those drivers have the leverage to even make a 2 sec penalty for future if they have valid reasons.
remember moving under braking? because of the drivers leverage we had 3 different rule for it during 3 season! (fine_not fine_ fine) and we called the stewards the inconsistent ones
but hey that's just my personal opinion and sometimes i'm wrong , and also maybe i'm a little drunk , better try ACC now

I don't think the stewards were malicious, but I do think that they penalized Vettel for no reason. Even if we establish that what Vettel did was wrong (and I don't think it was), a 5 second that cost him a win is too harsh for his "offense".

In my opinion, a driver should get a penalty of that kind when what he does is a) deliberate and b) dangerous. That was not the case yesterday. It was a mistake and it wasn't dangerous. Taking away a win for that is, in my opinion, a clear over-reaction. It also deprived us of a real race, because all Hamilton had to do was to stay within 5 seconds of Vettel and get a win.

That said, I was about to rate your comment with the "beer" icon, but since you wrote that you were a little drunk, I'll just click the "like" button instead! Enjoy ACC!

 

[Nick Hill]

I think Seb made a mistake. Absolutely impossible for me, the stewards, my dog, or anyone on this board to judge what influence Hamilton's pressure had on Vettel making a mistake, but you'd have to imagine it was a contributing factor.

That said, it's really not relevant - forced or unforced, ultimately a mistake is a mistake. No way in hell does Vettel cut across the grass like that intentionally (if he tried that same thing 9 more times, probably at least a couple of those times he ends up making contact with Lewis and/or the wall).

Penalizing him for returning to the track is absurd - how would the stewards recommend he rejoin the race in that situation?!? Unless Ferrari has some special teleportation button on the wheel Seb could have pressed in that split second, as I see it he got back on track as safely as the situation would allow (which was not very safe and beyond Seb's control).

Some people are acting like Hamilton forced a mistake therefore he deserves P1. I just don't get it. Unsafely rejoining the race I think implies a certain level of control over the car and a conscious decision making process on the part of the offending driver - no matter how many times I watch the replay, I'm not seeing it.

I saw two guys driving their butts off and some really handy driving to keep both cars undamaged...but the stewards felt the need to interject themselves for whatever reason. Disappointing.

 

[Trezoitao38]

 

[Tormentor]

I want to see passion, I want to see anger, I want to see that these people are human and that what they're doing actually means something to them. All this stoic shite with teams telling drivers what they can and can't say, always being diplomatic and acting like they have no emotion other than joy or total stoicism is again, bad for the sport and ruining the show. Give me the old days when drivers said whatever they thought whenever they wanted to, controversy be damned.

Me too. But i want it on the track, not after the race. Vettel is 4 times WC, he should be pro enough to stand it like a man and fight for the victory. Instead of crying all the time, put the pedal to the metal and try to gain 5 seconds you kid! It's a stuarts decision, you can't do anything during the race, and everybody knows that except him. He is always crying and complaining and shows unsportsmanlike behavior (Baku, Mexico) all the time. He is angry that Mercedes has the better car and Lewis ist the better driver and angry for the mistake he did AGAIN under presure. And with Leclerc as a rival it's getting even harder for him. Ferrari should really replace him, there are many young drivers who are grown up as he is.

 

[Nightfly]

If you make a mistake, go off-track, and then because of that mistake impede the progress of another driver, you deserve a penalty. So, why is the fast majority of the opinion this wasn't a penalty?

Let's say this was a situation in which Hamilton was trying to overtake Vettel on the outside. Hamilton has his nose in, and then Vettel squeezes him to the right, causing Hamilton to have to brake or else hit the wall. No penalty? Surely that's a penalty, as is Vettel re-joining the track unsafely even though it wasn't his fault. The mistake was his fault.

 

[thepharcyde]

@CreamyCornCob this non-spec series is all manufactured finishes

It's like wrestling

 

[Boby Kim]

No but if you give Max a 5 seconds penalty in Monaco for a faster pitstop.... there is no turn back to give not a penalty for this danger situation.

Fia have to much stuppid rules, let them more racing. My vote is no for Vettel.

NO NO NO Muzikant!!! This is NOT about Max, this is about Vettel!

 

[Ari Antero]

 

[SinAporia]

I don't even know why Rosberg said something, wasn't he the one who took out Hamilton in Spain because he was in the wrong engine mode, and couldn't get the car straight, who cliped Hamiltons tyre in Spa or was trying to take out Hamilton on the Red Bull Ring?

So he is now the one with the voice of reason... sure


So stewards made their job, they are getting a lot of hate. I still think the penalty wasn't right. But yeah, i still wait for the final decission if Ferrari will really do something against it. Otherwise case closed sadly

 

[Denis Betty]

I don't even know why Rosberg said something, wasn't he the one who took out Hamilton in Spain because he was in the wrong engine mode, and couldn't get the car straight, who cliped Hamiltons tyre in Spa or was trying to take out Hamilton on the Red Bull Ring?

So he is now the one with the voice of reason... sure

All of which is completely irrelevant to this incident. Just another load of "yeh but no but yeh but".