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Misc F1 2021 TyreTempMod - Realistic temperature, grip, wear, strategy v2.5

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I would really love if you could somehow include a branch of the mod where softs would be nerfed. I find it ridiculious that in real life setting, the drivers almost never drive with softs unless thats what they qualified with. The degradion from softs should be so much quicker and it should never be considered as the tyre of choice if you're starting from 10th or even more behind.

So my suggestion and train of thought: would be nice to have softs degrade WAY much faster than it is right now. I think it's realistic to assume 2 tenths of laptime drop like each lap until like from lap 8 onwards it would be more like 1 tenth, but still significant enough to show up as the tyre that you would mostly do QUALIFYING with and not racing.
 
This can definately be done but what you would then see is the top 10 running softs and the rest of the field always running mediums or hards. I am not sure that this is what we see in real races. I always make a note of the starting tyres of every grand prix and I would see its normally approx 70%-80% on softs for the start of most races. Can you send me some data that shows otherwise, I find it hard to get that information online which is why I always make a note when watching races
 
Rigght, this would most likely only serve players who play with full qualifying enabled. From my experience, the AI in Q2 quite consistently run mediums in my games if they're Mercedes, Red Bull or Ferrari. It wouldn't necessarily end up being 10 softs, and rest mediums, if playing on full qualifying.


I would have to dig a bit deeper, but as we can see in this photo on USA, only Tsunoda and Sainz ran softs on Q2. I can fetch more data on this, but to me the it at least seems like generally teams use mediums to qualify in Q2.
 
ah i see what you mean. unfortunately it seems the ai is not clever enough to do this, I have tried. They need to be fast enough to run mediums and stay ahead of the rest of the pack. So what happens is that if the top 2/3 teams are fast enough they do a first run with mediums. The rest of the field always run softs. Then if the top 2/3 are still ok they stick with their medium time, then depending on the spread of the field at that point in your career they will do a run on softs if it looks like they will fall out of the top 10. No matter what you do to the softs and mediums only the top 2/3 teams will try it
 
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Still seems like harder compounds overheat faster than softer ones (and the Softs are insanely quick, and seem to last a lot longer than they should IRL).

Career mode, 101 AI, 100% race length, Portugal, I qualified on pole in Red Bull on Mediums, both Mercs and a Ferrari behind me on mediums, Max started P14 on softs. By lap 12 or so, Max was on us, lapping 2 seconds a lap faster, showing no signs of hitting the cliff. Meanwhile I'm noticing that I have a lot of trouble keeping the mediums or hards cool enough, while the softs I'm often struggling to get into their operating temperature from how quickly they cool down (Especially the rears). I love the variety this mod introduces, but I think the tire values need some additional work, since the tires seem to behave opposite of how they do IRL (and yeah, the M-S-S two-stopper strategy is OP at the moment with how easy it is to keep softs in their temperature window). You shouldn't be able to push to purple sectors for 14 laps straight and go from 14th to 2nd on soft tires.

Also, not sure if this is intended or not, but we got light rain on Portugal, and the second it started spitting, everyone boxed for inters, and slicks became unusable... didn't seem like there was any crossover period. 1-2 laps later, and all of a sudden we're all boxing for Wets, despite there barely being any spray or standing water on the track.
 
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Still seems like harder compounds overheat faster than softer ones (and the Softs are insanely quick, and seem to last a lot longer than they should IRL).

Career mode, 101 AI, 100% race length, Portugal, I qualified on pole in Red Bull on Mediums, both Mercs and a Ferrari behind me on mediums, Max started P14 on softs. By lap 12 or so, Max was on us, lapping 2 seconds a lap faster, showing no signs of hitting the cliff. Meanwhile I'm noticing that I have a lot of trouble keeping the mediums or hards cool enough, while the softs I'm often struggling to get into their operating temperature from how quickly they cool down (Especially the rears). I love the variety this mod introduces, but I think the tire values need some additional work, since the tires seem to behave opposite of how they do IRL (and yeah, the M-S-S two-stopper strategy is OP at the moment with how easy it is to keep softs in their temperature window). You shouldn't be able to push to purple sectors for 14 laps straight and go from 14th to 2nd on soft tires.

Also, not sure if this is intended or not, but we got light rain on Portugal, and the second it started spitting, everyone boxed for inters, and slicks became unusable... didn't seem like there was any crossover period. 1-2 laps later, and all of a sudden we're all boxing for Wets, despite there barely being any spray or standing water on the track.
Thanks for feedback

This makes sense as harder tyres hold heat better than softer ones, maybe some adjustments are needed to make the harder tyres even harder to heat
 
Thanks for feedback

This makes sense as harder tyres hold heat better than softer ones, maybe some adjustments are needed to make the harder tyres even harder to heat
I agree that the hards should hold temperature for longer than the softs, but they should also be slower to bring up to overheating. I can run the base game tire pressures (which are across the board probably too high) and struggle to get the softs to even hit minimum operating temps during the sweeping right/left handers on Portimao that really load the tires, while oftentimes by corner exit at the last turn while on mediums, my left side tires are often sitting upwards of 112 deg C. Whatever the parameters were in 2.4, they seem to make the mediums and hards extremely easy to heat, while the softs seemed to have the thermal properties of harder compounds. The mediums and hards also bleed off heat very quickly - the cores go from 112+ degrees down to the low 90s to even 80s by the end of the start-finish straight on Portimao.

Edit: The revert to 2.3 made things better, but the rears for harder compounds still cook incredibly quickly compared to the softer ones. I could be pushing full fuel on softs and barely be overheating my fronts, but on the mediums and hards I'm going from sub-100 temps to 107+ over the course of single low-speed corners (and I'm overheating midcorner, not on exit).

Temperature retention-wise, it seems like something still isn't quite right.
 
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I would tend to forget about the tire temperatures or at least not spend too much time on it, I don't think it justifies the time spent, but I would work more on wear.

Honestly, I don't notice any changes compared to the base game, the winning strategy is always the two-stop one or S-S-M or S-M-M. Hard tires are never used except for a racing accident. See, for example, in Mexico all the drivers qualified on the medium and then put on the hard by making only one stop.

I obviously speak for those who compete at 100%, for those who run at a shorter length I don't think they have this problem.

Maybe making a version only for those who run the entire race would be appropriate.

P.S. in the last race Norris hit me on the last lap and I punctured the right rear ... it was both beautiful and horrible :) this thing about punctures is great.
 
So just to check. What the 100% racers would like is vanilla wear rates with the modded temperature behaviour?
Nope. We just dont want the boring only S-M tyre strategies. We want that the Hard tyres used in the races(actually if it is possible in all races- just like real life) and i think the temperature and wear behaviour is not that bad. Just needs minor adjustments.
 
Ok. This mod is really about the tyre temperature changes and how it effects wear and strategy. This sounds like a brand new mod for strategy only. I know there is another car performance mod which includes tyre wear. Does that not do this?
I am happy to take a look but just saying this feels like a brand new mod
 
I guess since this mod seems to work best at 50% race length, the wear could be adjusted a bit so it works little better for the full race. I don't really know. The default wear may not work too well as @telepatia mentioned the strategies are kinda static and boring. Would be nice to be able to use the hard tires as well, and have the softs almost unusable since no one in real races usually starts with softs.

I guess there's no way to influence the tires AI would choose in Q2 and race other than the wear rates? Or maybe that would venture into completely different strategy mod.
 
I will try changing the wear rates and wear profiles so as each compound gets harder it is able to run at a faster pace for a little longer. I won't be able to test correctly for 100% races as I can't commit to that amount of time. I can release it untested and then adjust based on feedback if that works for you guys. I will most likely release as separate mod so general downloads don't end up using something that doesn't work to well to start with
 
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For me I really don't have issues with tyre management in race, when I have to push I push for 2-3 laps and then i back off and cool the tyres and I'm doing pretty fine, and not every track is the same as you can see in real life, I think this mod is really close representing the real life but it can't be perfect but I like how it is. And thank you for this mod :)
 
I agree, the temperature issue is probably secondary to the tire compounds not really performing realistically. It seems like the softs have incredible single lap pace IRL, but that pace very quickly drops off over the first few laps of the race. A Medium-Hard 1-stop strategy should generally be better than a S-M-M or S-M-S strategy. Of cours, that's also manifested by it being far easier to overtake in-game than in IRL, so multistop strategies are more likely to work.

Softs should really be a quali tire. Incredible pace for the first 1-3 laps, then a dropoff to a slower but stable plateau for 5-10 laps, then a steady decline until the cliff.
 
ok, looking through the values today I understand why it doesnt work so well for 100%, its purely down to wear rates. I will try increasing wear rates and release a beta 100% race only version today :)
 
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