F1 2013 F1 2013 PC - Steering Front Wheel Slip/Understeer Problem

[FaizPervaizF1]

Before I say anything, this is my first post so please be lenient if I make mistakes
So, here goes...

I have a problem with the steering on F1 2013 on PC. I am using a Microsoft Sidewinder Force Feedback USB Wheel. The wheel functions perfectly and has no problems in any other game, and Windows 7 recognises it correctly so it isn't a driver problem. F1 2013 officially supports this wheel so I wasn't expecting any problems.

The game correctly recognises the wheel, and I use the default configuration. In most places the wheel functions fine but the problem is that when driving the car around a fast corner the front wheels in the game turn, but the car itself just carries straight on, even on full steering lock. I can only describe it as a tyre 'slipping' effect as this happens even with full downforce settings so it is not understeer. There are no tyre marks left either. I have noticed that this problem only occurs in this game, and only happens when force feedback is enabled. I don't want to always play with feedback disabled, so I would appreciate it if anyone could help me with this problem.

I have already tried going a lot slower into corners, updating drivers for the wheel, and experimenting with different feedback strengths and wheel settings but none of this fixed the problem. I've also tried the following mod which was meant to fix the problem but the only effect it had was reduce the force feedback strength.
Link: http://www.racedepartment.com/forum/resources/no-understeer-ffb-effect-mod.790/

I would be very grateful if anyone in the RaceDepartment community could help me as contacting Codemasters is absolutely useless. A system information file is attached just in case anyone needs it.

Thanks!

 

[Graham Laing]

The only thing I can think of, as I am not familiar with your wheel is this :-

1/ Increase the rotation setting of your wheel if you can, especially it you can get (or have) profiling software for your wheel. My wheel has 900 degrees of rotation, but depending on the game, I may set it from anything between 240 and 540 degrees (sometimes more).

2/ Ensure that the 'Override input device' is set to Steering Wheel

 

[FaizPervaizF1]

Thank you for the reply, I can't change the rotation limit as it is fixed at 270 degrees (pretty bad I know but good for me) and I've already set the override type to steering wheel, and this doesn't fix the problem. Others have been reporting the problem too on other forums so I don't think the problem is just with this wheel. Any other ideas? It doesn't happen in any other game, just this one

 

[Graham Laing]

The only other thing I can think of is brake balance.

Even though generally most racing cars would have a bit of forward bias, if it's too far forward, and you are trying to brake and turn, the front wheels will tend to lock and you will keep going straight and not make the turn.

In this case either move the balance back a bit, or ensure that you do all your braking in a straight line before turn in, don't trail brake. Trail braking (braking in the turn) tends to transfer weight onto the front wheels. If your fonts wheel are at the point where they are about to lose grip, trail braking may tip then over the edge, and you lose grip and directional control.

This is just an idea, and may having nothing to do with your problem, but it's the only other thing I can think of when it comes to cornering problems

(I am ignoring suspension and roll bar settings here, as I can't see this game simulating them to such a high degree, where the car will badly effected by incorrect settings)

Cheers .

 

[Karl Fuss]

I have noticed that this problem only occurs in this game, and only happens when force feedback is enabled. I don't want to always play with feedback disabled, so I would appreciate it if anyone could help me with this problem.

this seems strange to me.
If you have the FFB disabled then you have no problem turning the car in the high speed corners? please confirm this.

 

[FaizPervaizF1]

The only other thing I can think of is brake balance.

Even though generally most racing cars would have a bit of forward bias, if it's too far forward, and you are trying to brake and turn, the front wheels will tend to lock and you will keep going straight and not make the turn.

In this case either move the balance back a bit, or ensure that you do all your braking in a straight line before turn in, don't trail brake. Trail braking (braking in the turn) tends to transfer weight onto the front wheels. If your fonts wheel are at the point where they are about to lose grip, trail braking may tip then over the edge, and you lose grip and directional control.

This is just an idea, and may having nothing to do with your problem, but it's the only other thing I can think of when it comes to cornering problems

(I am ignoring suspension and roll bar settings here, as I can't see this game simulating them to such a high degree, where the car will badly effected by incorrect settings)

Cheers .

Good points you make, I'll think about these next time I drive. I did not consider car setups originally because I thought that if it actually was understeer or a loss of grip causing the problem then there would be tyre marks left on the track, but there aren't any left when the problem occurs. There is no locking so this can't be related to the issue.

 

[FaizPervaizF1]

this seems strange to me.
If you have the FFB disabled then you have no problem turning the car in the high speed corners? please confirm this.

There are two ways I can turn force feedback on or off. First, there is a button on my wheel labelled 'Force' (image) that toggles feedback on and off from the wheel it self, not through the game, and the other way of course is through the game menu. No matter which way I turn the feedback off the problem is a lot less than what it is with feedback on. It surprised me a little bit as well, I'm interested to hear why you think its strange. You might like to know that feedback on this wheel is quite powerful and I have to play with the effect strengths at around 30%.

Maybe my arms are too weak?!

 

[Karl Fuss]

it just seems strange to me that having the FFB turned on would cause understeer. I don't play with PC so i can't test it exactly the same way.
I always play with FFB turned on and use a MS wheel with my xbox 360.
I will test tonight with FFB off and see if it is easier to drive through the corners....... maybe it's a game glitch that spans all platforms..... and might explain why some of the controller drivers and no FFB wheel drivers can eclipse me in speed.....

 

[Karl Fuss]

I did this test last night around Singapore (cuz that's where my league race is this week)
5 laps with FFB on (60/80/60) - 50 laps fuel, options, no DRS use, KERS always used in the same spots for the same amount

then i turned the FFB off and kept everything else the same

Then i turned the FFB back on 60/80/60 (interestingly enough the FFB felt twice as strong at this point)

I tried 5 more laps with FFB off, but crashed on my first hotlap

I noticed no markable difference in lap times. With FFB off it was harder for me to feel the car, but i was braver on the throttle because i couldn't feel the slip of the car.
My first laps with the FFB off were half a second faster than the first stint with FFB on, however, when i turned FFB back on i was again half a second faster than with the FFB off.

I can post the split times and lap times if anyone's interested, but not till later this evening.

 

[FaizPervaizF1]

Sorry for the late reply, I didn't check my account

Interesting results, thanks for the research. So for you it seems FFB makes no difference to how the car handles in game, it is just a learning curve and getting adapted to the FFB that affects your times. I'm starting to think now that it is a problem with the wheel itself, but again the fact of the matter is that the slipping doesn't happen with FFB off. I remember reading in a forum that turning the steering wheel too quickly can also cause this effect. Any ideas?
Also? would it help if I posted a video of how the car handles with FFB on and FFB off?

 

[Karl Fuss]

Yes, for me it seems that the FFB makes no markable difference in how the car handles. But it does change the way the car feels like it's handling (if you get me)
So, going into a corner with FFB ON you can feel when the wheel goes lighter, that is simulating the car is slipping in the front, and so you lift a little and wait for the front to grab again before putting more throttle down.
But, with FFB OFF there is no feeling of the slip so you just keep pushing on and turning the wheel and giving throttle like nothing is wrong.