Cars F1 1994 MOD part-1 2.1

[GTR233]

IMPORTANT: For any open wheel mod GTR2 PLR needs a tweak to show f1 wheels at line 280 :
wheels visible in cockpit="1"

this tweak is already enabled in HQ Anniversary Patch default Player PLR among many other tweaks.

 

[jgf]

how do you want to make realistic physics without knowing the real cars behavior ? I know many Studios are proud to show f1 79-90 cars in their game : do you really think that devs who made physics put their ass in such cars ? It is purely fantasy physics of course !
Give me real datas for all cars of 1994 and I will update mod with them and I can also make different fantasy physics for every car as all others do

I think the point being that for years, in a variety of sims, we get sport car mods, GT1 mods, LMP mods, etc., with "historic" physics (whether entirely accurate or not, who knows? how many people in sim forums arguing the accuracy of any particular car have ever actually driven that car? or any race car at all? they're just arguing opinions), while I venture 90% of F1 mods are "League Editions" (i.e. spec racers). I always attributed this to the mod creators being primarily online racers where such mods are popular (given a historic mod, everyone would show up in a Williams or McLaren, no one wanted to drive a Pacific or Minardi ....yes, I'm old).

Ultimately we cannot expect "realistic" performance, only reasonable performance. I waited several years for the historic physics for a '93 F1 mod for rfactor; are any of those cars now realistic? I've no idea. But they are all now different and perform reasonably.

A viable alternative is that used by some aerial combat sims - take the aircraft for which the most data is available and model it as accurately as the program allows, then model the other aircraft relative to that one.

 

[The Iron Wolf]

I'd like to add my two cents that realism is not just physical behavior of a car. Other aspects are important too, accurate grids, names etc. One thing I wish received more attention in mods is era accuracy. I constantly see Motec's from, say 2004 used in cars from much earlier years. Or, steering wheels not looking the way they did in reality. Or compounds not matchign the year. It is understandable why it is done the way it is done, but I am really looking forward to seeing more visually accurate F1 mods in GTR2. And while I can't help much with textures or models, I'll do my share of improving F1 experience via tricks in my plugin - being F1 fan I have a lot planned in that area. For example, I just enabled per compound visual tires and implemented antistall and now working on simple DRS.

 

[jgf]

"Era accuracy" certainly aids in immersion. While I do not castigate anyone for how they wish to play, I am put off by seeing, for example, a '65 F1 video with the perimeter of the screen cluttered with modern Motec data (there is a Motec style mod for GPL even). Though I make no apologies for using paddle shifters and left foot braking, feeling this advantage offsets the lack of peripheral vision and tactile feedback from real world driving.

As much as I enjoy GTR2, there is a certain lack of immersion simply due to lack of coverage of GT racing in the US; I do not recognize 90% of the names in a driver roster (are these real drivers or neighbors of the mod creator, lol). Ages ago in ICR2 you could watch those teams/cars/drivers on TV Sunday afternoon then compete against them on your computer, that was probably the most immersive sim for me.

And I wish I knew more of track editing so could "backdate" many tracks to an earlier era - no jumbotrons, TV towers, cranes, etc. - for P&G or period mods in rfactor.

 

[The Iron Wolf]

"Era accuracy" certainly aids in immersion. While I do not castigate anyone for how they wish to play, I am put off by seeing, for example, a '65 F1 video with the perimeter of the screen cluttered with modern Motec data (there is a Motec style mod for GPL even). Though I make no apologies for using paddle shifters and left foot braking, feeling this advantage offsets the lack of peripheral vision and tactile feedback from real world driving.

As much as I enjoy GTR2, there is a certain lack of immersion simply due to lack of coverage of GT racing in the US; I do not recognize 90% of the names in a driver roster (are these real drivers or neighbors of the mod creator, lol). Ages ago in ICR2 you could watch those teams/cars/drivers on TV Sunday afternoon then compete against them on your computer, that was probably the most immersive sim for me.

And I wish I knew more of track editing so could "backdate" many tracks to an earlier era - no jumbotrons, TV towers, cranes, etc. - for P&G or period mods in rfactor.

Yes - everyone likes different things, but stuff like you describe above is extremely offputting to me personally. Just because it looks cool or nicer doesn't make it realistic, but again, everyone's different. One of the first things I did in my plugin was small tricks to improve shifting mechanics (similar to Grinding Tranny, but with per gear damage and stuff for sequential too), but very, very few people care and that's totally fine. As far as I know even stock GTR2 cars did not shift IRL the way stock GTR2 does it (You had to lift on downshift and sometimes even on upshift, there's was no lift aid).

Yeah, and unfortunately GTR2 is very far from offering good oval experience (so it is primarily GT/Touring and with some tricks, F1 game), one thing I miss on that platform is oval stuff.

I'd love to see more era accurate tracks for P&G. I believe removing things from track is very easy in 3DSimED, it's creating new stuff is the hard part.

 

[jgf]

... even stock GTR2 cars did not shift IRL the way stock GTR2 does it (You had to lift on downshift and sometimes even on upshift, there's was no lift aid).

Yeah, and unfortunately GTR2 is very far from offering good oval experience (so it is primarily GT/Touring and with some tricks, F1 game), one thing I miss on that platform is oval stuff.
...

A major issue I've long had with GTR2 is that with almost all cars you just "put the pedal to the metal" and zip through the gears like a modern F1 car. This is not hard coded since a few cars are more realistic in this respect (especially the P&G mod); if I knew what to edit more would require lift when shift.

Probably the best oval sim is still the venerable N2k3; I initially got it just to install the GTP mod, but with the numerous classic mods ('55, '63, '71, etc.) I occasionally enjoy running in circles again.

 

[The Iron Wolf]

A major issue I've long had with GTR2 is that with almost all cars you just "put the pedal to the metal" and zip through the gears like a modern F1 car. This is not hard coded since a few cars are more realistic in this respect (especially the P&G mod); if I knew what to edit more would require lift when shift.

Probably the best oval sim is still the venerable N2k3; I initially got it just to install the GTP mod, but with the numerous classic mods ('55, '63, '71, etc.) I occasionally enjoy running in circles again.

I know what you mean, I love that detail. But it is not just about rear wheels locking up. There's more. AFAIK, under certain conditions, you simply can't shift certain gearboxes sequentially, unless you lift, and that's part that can't be edited and plugin tries to "simulate" _that_. Of course, best is combination of correct authoring to lock up the wheels plus additional logic to refuse the shift.

 

[deangelis7]

what AI Realism settings (aggression) do you recommend for this mod?? I see that you put in talent files for AI drivers aggression 0.6 values

 

[The Iron Wolf]

@GTR233 - if you ever get to update this, small suggestion - please, make LCD display N for neutral.

Additional data pages work nicely!

Also, since you now are using my plugin you may want to utilize more open wheeler features. For example, plugin supports antistall in physics and visual indicator, also you can display RPMs in digits anywhere you want, biggest challenge is historical research, to figure out how things were in those 1994 cars in reality. I know they were mostly paddle shifted in 1994, but don't know about overrev protection, antistall, Neutral behavior etc.

I can also send you my CrewChief.ini with all the physics changes enabled, flat spots, dirt pickup as a starting point. Oh and lastly, we can try visualizing flat spots/dirt pickup, but that's a lot of work.