AC Escort RS1600 @ Brands Hatch - Wed 24 July 2019

[Dux]

Qualifying

Race

 

[Ronnie Böhme]

front wheel rate from 48 to 46 to remove understeer, brake bias to 67 make the rear more stable (at least for me) and coast to 45 instead of 40. I just them more easy to drive for me. you might find them very very bad. I am not good at setups most of the guys put setups with a lot of oversteer at the end ... but maybe it's just my skill level that can not handle it yet

I see what you did there . So your biggest problem was the turn-in-oversteer if I understand your changes correctly. Good to know for next time. I have to say, it took me some time to get used to the setup again after building the Lotus setup for Saturday. I also changed my driving stile during the race, which is a really bad idea, making lots of mistakes trying to keep up with @Aksu.

Anyway, great race, nice combo, thanks for organizing @Craig Dunkley
My race was like "Calm dow, catch up, make mistake, repeat" It was a bit frustrating to see that I could have had a nice battle with @Aksu but destroid all my efforts every other lap by hitting the grass or drifting too hard. Though it was great fun to push the Escort and myself to the limit. Only downside was the numerous cases of screen freezes and disconnects this time. So sad to hear about your trouble over Teamspeak

Looking forward to the next Wednesday combo

 

[Ronnie Böhme]

Just to say thanks again Ronnie, made the race a pleasure for me

I used the first setup you posted and reduced front ride height to 10, rear to 2. I did try your latest one but I found the first one much more predictable (my skill levels require a plodding setup) - I could set the same lap time with both your setups and with the changes I made to your first one, just went for one I could finish with.

You are very welcome

Damn it never occured to me, that someone might prefer the first setup.
Next time I'll not delete the WIP setup. Sorry

 

[Raresch]

I see what you did there . So your biggest problem was the turn-in-oversteer if I understand your changes correctly. Good to know for next tim

If that is what is called, then yes. ) I don't really like drifting ... or maybe I don't have the skill to master it ... So I am faster with less turn-in oversteer, just because I don't know how to drift those cars. I am afraid of losing them. I saw your driving style in the practice and you were drifting in every corner, which is faster in those type of cars. Still, I am not quite there yet.

 

[Kek700]

John here is the race out you asked for.
cheers
ernie

 

[Medilloni]

John here is the race out you asked for.
cheers
ernie

Thanks Ernie, it works (I think lol), now uploaded For some reason my .json files never work in simresults

 

[RobertR1]

Was interesting. Joined with 2 mins to go so had to learn the car during qualifying. Somehow managed 5th or 6th I think in Q? Got hit in T2 and sent to the back. Did a catch up drive and into the 43's which I was happy with. Caught upto Ernie and ended up in a 4 way tight battle. Had contact and waited (golden rule) which took him a while to get turned around and get going again. That killed the motivation due to the time gap. Had some fun doing big drifts since I was too far behind on time now. Then once a drift went bad, shut it down.

 

[Kek700]

If that is what is called, then yes. ) I don't really like drifting ... or maybe I don't have the skill to master it ... So I am faster with less turn-in oversteer, just because I don't know how to drift those cars. I am afraid of losing them. I saw your driving style in the practice and you were drifting in every corner, which is faster in those type of cars. Still, I am not quite there yet.

@Raresch

Drifting is not really the fastest on tarmac, drifting is a mistake someone is putting right.

Never found an meaningful example on how to drift, it is like a secret society, when you learn it, you have to keep quite, or else.

My take on drifting :-
Fear, once the car starts to slide, you freeze, not a good start.
One thing at a time, that’s basically how you drive a GT3, brake into an apex, very difficult to do, accelerate out of the apex, keep foot planted, change gear.

The whole secret to oversteer is the combination of
all the above, I sometimes change gear to quell to much oversteer, I sometimes brake when drifting too wide.
Always combining accelerator and steering at “all times”, your foot should be constantly modulating the accelerator, you should be constantly adjusting the steering in synchronised way.

Example :-
out of a corner, you get oversteer, never lift.
Counter oversteer with the steering in a modulating fashion, never lift the throttle, that is the common sense thing to do, keep throttle partly on, start to apply and slightly lift and apply the throttle and constantly adjust the steering until it sort of becomes a dance between the steering and accelerator.

The car will go into a plus and minus sort of slow oscillation that you start to become in control of.
That is the point were you can make the car dance,
so to speak.

Rs1600, go to brands and practice, if for nothing else,
to remove the biggest problem, fear, freezing.

I will probably now be killed by the secret drifting society.


In fact, for me the RS1600 is the only car that I make oversteer for the absolute fun of it, pretty sure I could improve my lap times by never in a lap getting all oversteery.

Where is the fun in that.

 

[Kek700]

Thanks Ernie, it works (I think lol), now uploaded For some reason my .json files never work in simresults

Only a guess John, if I wait too long and the server is reset, lose the out file.
If I go out of AC and then back in, again I loose the out file.

 

[Kek700]

What a hoot, really enjoyed this race, there was quite a lot of us with the same sort of lap times. So that helped make it more fun.
Robert
Dusko
Aitor
John
Patrick
Sorry if I have missed anyone else.
It was really in the end, a race of mistakes, a mistake,
normally it is just a small loss of time, over steer that looses you a bit of momentum.
Not with the RS1600, one bit of excessive oversteer, that could take you 3 laps to put right.
My race started with Robert, I could see I was not going to have an easy 20 odd laps, luckily he had some problems, which obviously lost him quite a lot of time, I could see in his eventual lap times he had lost the will to live. I would have eventually lost a place to Robert, racing is like an unpredictable soap opera.

Next was Patrick I could see he had a bit more pace than I, eventually he made a mistake and I found myself in front, not were I wanted to be, eventually John and I had a tap, Patrick took the opportunity and made a pass, which I was pleased about.
That took the pressure of me, putting it back with John now.
Even though Patrick had a bit more pace, following was definitely the way to go with the RS1600.
I basically spent the rest of the time comfortably follow the squabbling duo in front.
Unfortunately for Patrick, one mistake, followed by another, the gap was just too much to close with 3 laps left. And I could see he had resigned himself to that situation. With more laps he would have certainly got back.
John, basically matched my pace, with 3 laps to go I comfortably resigned myself to my finishing place.

Congratulations to the front runners, they were in a different race pace to the motley group some 20 odd seconds in the rear.

And thanks to @Craig Dunkley for hosting one of the best races I have been in.

 

[Dux]

Was interesting. Joined with 2 mins to go so had to learn the car during qualifying. Somehow managed 5th or 6th I think in Q? Got hit in T2 and sent to the back. Did a catch up drive and into the 43's which I was happy with. Caught upto Ernie and ended up in a 4 way tight battle. Had contact and waited (golden rule) which took him a while to get turned around and get going again. That killed the motivation due to the time gap. Had some fun doing big drifts since I was too far behind on time now. Then once a drift went bad, shut it down.

Is it you with the blue car?

 

[Dux]

Drifting is not really the fastest on tarmac, drifting is a mistake someone is putting right.

Nicely said. During the race I kept saying to myself "Jackie Stewart said the smoother you are the fastest you are, cars need to be driven smoothly!" but yeah, tyres probably overheated and the car was much more prone to sliding than it was during practice or qualifying, so I ended up doing several mistakes that otherwise In practice wouldn't have happened. Really took me off-guard.

 

[RobertR1]

Is it you with the blue car?

View attachment 316761

Possibly. I can't recall what color I was. That looks like the right location though.

 

[Ronnie Böhme]

Just to get my thoughts out as well. It's true, it's not about drifting. At least with a two wheel driven car it's slower (with all wheel drive it's a whole other sotory). You do have a certain slip angle though, which is a lot smaller if your car has lots of aerodynamic downforce and the tires to cope with those forces than if your car hast little to no downforce. Other factors are the rigid rear axle (for example in case of the Escort RS1600) or if there's a differential present or not (if someone could tell me the name of the non-differential rear axle I'd be really happy). My point is, that you don't drive around a corner on rails. There's always some amount of slip which depends on certain factors. To be really fast you have to find the perfect slip angle.

This is just my opinion (which is based on my simracing experience, watching motorsports and reading stuff) and might even be true.

 

[Dux]

Possibly. I can't recall what color I was. That looks like the right location though.

The accident is on 18:20 on the video in my previous posts

 

[RobertR1]

The accident is on 18:20 on the video in my previous posts

Guilty!!!

 

[Medilloni]

Just to get my thoughts out as well. It's true, it's not about drifting. At least with a two wheel driven car it's slower (with all wheel drive it's a whole other sotory). You do have a certain slip angle though, which is a lot smaller if your car has lots of aerodynamic downforce and the tires to cope with those forces than if your car hast little to no downforce. Other factors are the rigid rear axle (for example in case of the Escort RS1600) or if there's a differential present or not (if someone could tell me the name of the non-differential rear axle I'd be really happy). My point is, that you don't drive around a corner on rails. There's always some amount of slip which depends on certain factors. To be really fast you have to find the perfect slip angle.

This is just my opinion (which is based on my simracing experience, watching motorsports and reading stuff) and might even be true.

Interesting you say this Ronnie, and agree it's unlikely you'd get a good lap without some controlled slip. Watching the replay of you and Aki, you were both faster with the small slip into the apex and neat coming out of it.

Driving the Escort I was trying (and mostly failing) to create slip in a similar way you would with a Kart - in that (into the corner) the inside rear wheel is in the same 'track' as the inside front... and with the much wider rear track of a Kart you end up with a controlled, gentle slide, which is also part of your braking process (scrubbing speed off). Then from the apex keep it as straight as possible. At the start I had a serious word with myself not to go for outright speed ('cos I knew I'd go off), just nail every exit, and with Brands being a hard track to pass on it really helped keep my position.

Ahh, lovely story in theory... my fastest lap was about 8th

 

[Ronnie Böhme]

Interesting you say this Ronnie, and agree it's unlikely you'd get a good lap without some controlled slip. Watching the replay of you and Aki, you were both faster with the small slip into the apex and neat coming out of it.

Driving the Escort I was trying (and mostly failing) to create slip in a similar way you would with a Kart - in that (into the corner) the inside rear wheel is in the same 'track' as the inside front... and with the much wider rear track of a Kart you end up with a controlled, gentle slide, which is also part of your braking process (scrubbing speed off). Then from the apex keep it as straight as possible. At the start I had a serious word with myself not to go for outright speed ('cos I knew I'd go off), just nail every exit, and with Brands being a hard track to pass on it really helped keep my position.

Ahh, lovely story in theory... my fastest lap was about 8th

As they always say: "Slow in, fast out" . Also, driving consistent laps is so much more important than doing fast laps, making lots of mistakes ... of course I'm referrfing to myself here
And yes, overtaking at Brands is a tricky task.

 

[pattikins]

Thanks @Craig Dunkley for tonight's race, really enjoyed it - to be honest, the fun was thanks to @Ronnie Böhme setups, made driving it feel like the real thing, I almost wept with nostalgia

Congrats to the podium guys, amazing lap times!

Had some great tussles with @pattikins Patrick and @Kek700 Ernie, thanks as always guys for the fair racing. Couple of times it was close with Patrick 'cos, like the Alfa GTA, I found it hard to judge a pass without sliding uncontrollably.

And apologies too Patrick; you nearly ran into me on the straight, my fault - first time I've used the H shifter for a while and it went back into missing 5th gear occasionally, will have a go at re-calibration before the next one.

EDIT: If anyone's got the 'out' file and could upload to simresults.net I'd really appreciate it, would love to see the lap times of the Aliens! (I've tried and it's not worked)

There were a few times that I got very close to the back of your car and I had to close my eyes & pray to the racing gods I don't remember the near miss on the straight, but I do remember having to lift & hope in the last corner, mid way through the race. I really enjoyed the [clean] racing, even though it felt like I was racing against the John & Ernie tag team for most of the race .

Did you have any problems with the shifter prior to using the adaptor?

 

[pattikins]

Thanks @Craig Dunkley for tonight's race, really enjoyed it - to be honest, the fun was thanks to @Ronnie Böhme setups, made driving it feel like the real thing, I almost wept with nostalgia

Congrats to the podium guys, amazing lap times!

Had some great tussles with @pattikins Patrick and @Kek700 Ernie, thanks as always guys for the fair racing. Couple of times it was close with Patrick 'cos, like the Alfa GTA, I found it hard to judge a pass without sliding uncontrollably.

And apologies too Patrick; you nearly ran into me on the straight, my fault - first time I've used the H shifter for a while and it went back into missing 5th gear occasionally, will have a go at re-calibration before the next one.

EDIT: If anyone's got the 'out' file and could upload to simresults.net I'd really appreciate it, would love to see the lap times of the Aliens! (I've tried and it's not worked)

What a hoot, really enjoyed this race, there was quite a lot of us with the same sort of lap times. So that helped make it more fun.
Robert
Dusko
Aitor
John
Patrick
Sorry if I have missed anyone else.
It was really in the end, a race of mistakes, a mistake,
normally it is just a small loss of time, over steer that looses you a bit of momentum.
Not with the RS1600, one bit of excessive oversteer, that could take you 3 laps to put right.
My race started with Robert, I could see I was not going to have an easy 20 odd laps, luckily he had some problems, which obviously lost him quite a lot of time, I could see in his eventual lap times he had lost the will to live. I would have eventually lost a place to Robert, racing is like an unpredictable soap opera.

Next was Patrick I could see he had a bit more pace than I, eventually he made a mistake and I found myself in front, not were I wanted to be, eventually John and I had a tap, Patrick took the opportunity and made a pass, which I was pleased about.
That took the pressure of me, putting it back with John now.
Even though Patrick had a bit more pace, following was definitely the way to go with the RS1600.
I basically spent the rest of the time comfortably follow the squabbling duo in front.
Unfortunately for Patrick, one mistake, followed by another, the gap was just too much to close with 3 laps left. And I could see he had resigned himself to that situation. With more laps he would have certainly got back.
John, basically matched my pace, with 3 laps to go I comfortably resigned myself to my finishing place.

Congratulations to the front runners, they were in a different race pace to the motley group some 20 odd seconds in the rear.

And thanks to @Craig Dunkley for hosting one of the best races I have been in.

The heat in my room finally got to me in the last few laps. Up until then though I had a great time. I made a few mistakes, but I also noticed that you & John were more consistent in your lap times.