DTM tracks in R3E ?

AlexP.nl · May 30, 2014

So when you buy DTM experience, you cannot use the tracks in Raceroom Expierence? So that you can race the DTM tracks with different cars ?
This must be a joke, i pay twice for 1 track? No wonder the R3E game isn't that popular.
I allready regret that i payed €39.95 for the DTM Experience game (which is a nice game allthough).

i'am dissapointed in Simbin, which i supported a lot over the couple of years (i bought GTR, GTR2, Race07, GT Legends, STCC 1&2, the expansion packs for Race07 and finally DTM Experience).
Do you think we should complain about this?

AlexP.nl

Blkout · May 30, 2014

Yes, DTME s a seperate game basically. It shares the same interface and core engine as R3E but the content isn't interchangeable between them.

Bram Hengeveld · May 30, 2014

Can't follow your logics. Its crystal clear that DTM Experience is sold as a stand alone game, although it uses the same core as R3E.

SimBin is building DTM Experience for the DTM organisation (ITR ?), which has nothing to do with R3E. Hence they probably have a license that only allows them to use DTM cars on DTM tracks which from a series branding point of view makes perfect sense.

Emerson Meyer · May 30, 2014

You have paid for a separate game: DTM - own rules, own tracks.
And yes, this information is clear.

Nothing to complain.

Kevin Watts · May 30, 2014

As Bram says it could be a stipulation of the license for the DTM game but I can understand why people are a little surprised they can't use the tracks in R3E because although DTM is a standalone game its presented in a way that could be viewed as a module for the R3E game as you need to install R3E and access DTM from the menu as if its just a module to the overall package. Perhaps in the future Simbin will allow you to combine all your content.

Blkout · May 30, 2014

I can also understand why it can be confusing, as stated by Kevin, it appears to be presented in a way that looks like an expansion to R3E much the way SimBin did with their previous Race07 series.

AlexP.nl · May 30, 2014

DTM Experience is from Simbin, R3E is from Simbin.
I understand that the DTM organisation has something to do with it.
If DTM Experience is a separate game why do i need R3E? If there is a problem with steam i cannot play at all.
IMO it is NOT a seperate game.

Jay Ekkel · May 30, 2014

Well DTM Experience is mainly available as a seperate game, if you are not an R3E user it you will never see or know the excistince of R3E.

Either the way the restrictions come from the orgranisation, things might change in the future, but how those will be approached by our publisher (as we as a studio do not set the rules, we only give our opinions to our publisher) only time will tell.

ajokay · Jun 22, 2014

It's a real shame that DTM tracks aren't then available in R3E. I mean, some of them are Identical. Having bought DTM I'd expect the Hockenheim and Zandvoort circuits to be interchangeable at least, as now if I want them in R3E I'd have to by them again. I love them SimBin games and the way they feel, but it's a shame they've chosen this kind of development and release model.

James Cook · Jun 22, 2014

Alex Odell said:
It's a real shame that DTM tracks aren't then available in R3E. I mean, some of them are Identical. Having bought DTM I'd expect the Hockenheim and Zandvoort circuits to be interchangeable at least, as now if I want them in R3E I'd have to by them again. I love them SimBin games and the way they feel, but it's a shame they've chosen this kind of development and release model.

The R3E versions of Hockenheim and Zandvoort could (and should) be offered to DTM Experience owners for free, or for a highly reduced price at the very least. It would be a nice gesture that would demonstrate some kind of structure and consistency to the pricing of this product. I'm sure it would be appreciated by the community and would go some way to getting people back onside with what is a very unpopular sales model.

Jay Ekkel · Jun 23, 2014

There are more things to consider for a publisher (raceroom).

For arguments sake lets assume most money/royalty of dtm experience goes to DTM, which makes sense. As we know DTM is a exclusive experience/package deal. And for this example lets say 6 out of 10 tracks in DTM are already also available in r3e. In R3E it means RaceRoom/Simbin and license holder generate revenue.

Now should RaceRoom as a publisher give away these 6 tracks available in DTM for free in R3E, or should they charge for it to generate revenue? <---valid question!

The other way around, why would DTM agree to take a hit om their revenue if people already bought the 6 tracks in R3E.?

Another side of things is that tracks that are part of a series as in DTM have (most of the time) signed away their digital rights or given the series the right to use their track in promotional campaign aka games. So they make (barely if anything at all) no revenue on a DTM game.

But being licensed in R3E gives them access to a nice sales royalty revenue every year. Why should they agree to wave away (everything or large part of) their revenue?

So to be clear I am not saying I personally am satisfied with current strategy, but it is being worked on and thought about on a daily bases.

Ideas like splitting cars and tracks up in seperate packs after X amount of time. Discounts for multiple items, etc etc...

I just wanted to convey that we hear the feedback but this is one of those cases where its just not as easy as just doing it when multiple parties are envolved.

Sadly enough were are not turn10/forza motorsport spehere such large budgets exist where we can give away the nordschleife for free...

James Cook · Jun 23, 2014

To be completely clear, I'm only referring to the DTM tracks that are available in R3E already (Hockenheim, Zandvoort and presumably Hungaroring with the 2014 update). I don't expect these tracks to be given away for free in R3E, but even a small discount for DTM Experience owners would make sense.

The DTM versions of tracks shouldn't be playable in R3E if that's what the license dictates, but being asked to pay again for something in R3E that I can already race on in DTM-E is where my problem lies. Let's face it, DTM-E isn't exactly a standalone product while it requires an install of R3E to run.

ajokay · Jun 24, 2014

Thats what I was getting at too. I understand the possible licencing issues and whatnot. If DTM dictate that the DTM cars can only be driven on the tracks that the DTM is using, then that's plenty fair enough. But to have paid for the circuits in the DTM expansion and then not be able to use them in R3E (at very least the ones that are in both) is a little confusing and disappointing for consumers.

Jay Ekkel · Jun 25, 2014

`The tracks that are in DTM experience are part of the series license. And are not to be used outside of the experience.

We are looking into possibilities to have these tracks in R3E, but as explained, outside DTM tracks might be full/discounted/free price but that is mainly up to the publisher and to some extend the track owners.

Melv · Jun 25, 2014

"We are looking into possibilities to have these tracks in R3E, but as explained, outside DTM tracks might be full/discounted/free price but that is mainly up to the publisher and to some extend the track owners."

@Jay Ekkel Any idea of a timeline on when you maybe able to get clarity on this.

I would love to buy DTM-E. I have all the other games from SimBin and have enjoyed them thoroughly. But I cant get myself to buy DTM-E considering I will have to buy the tracks again to be used in R3E. (I fully understand somethings are out of your hands and depend on the publisher and track/series owners)

What worries me a little is, when you release more racing series' that use same tracks, with the current model folks will have to keep paying for the same tracks over and over.

Forgive me if I have understood the model wrong or have made a very far fetched assumption.

EDIT: OK I couldnt resist and bought the game. It is damn good, I'm loving it. @Jay Ekkel now the ball is in your court to provide an update on using tracks/cars in R3E

. (thanks for the awesome game SimBin)

Jay Ekkel · Jun 26, 2014

As mentioned earlier, no idea on the timelines. But I am part of talks/discussion that when releasing new experience (ADAC/WTCC or what ever series for example) there will be an option (day 1 or after a period of time) to buy cars & tracks separate frome each other in a pack. And then followed by single item release some time later.

Rough thoughts atm, as technically we would need support for this, and I m not sure what is feasible at this moment of time.

Craig Stevenson · Jul 8, 2014

Have to agree here, I don't think the "Model" has been fully thought through or if it has it relied on people not realising they would be paying for the same content several times over.

If understand what you've just said Jay, in the future we may be able to buy WTCC 2015, for example and then some time after the release of the Full DLC Pack individual Cars and Tracks would go on Sale, isn't that going to cause one hell of a lot of Mismatches online for one thing?

Bryan O'Connor · Jul 8, 2014

Craig Stevenson said:
If understand what you've just said Jay, in the future we may be able to buy WTCC 2015, for example and then some time after the release of the Full DLC Pack individual Cars and Tracks would go on Sale, isn't that going to cause one hell of a lot of Mismatches online for one thing?

No as most people are either doing the same couple of tracks and pick the same car when racing online.
Unless you were competing in an online 'season' mode there would be no worries - you only race on the track(s) you have. Simples.
WTCC is not multi class so all you need is one car. And then the tracks you desire or prefer to race on. It's not rocket science..... But i do understand completely why they come as a package.

Craig Stevenson · Jul 8, 2014

Bryan O'Connor said:
No as most people are either doing the same couple of tracks and pick the same car when racing online.
Unless you were competing in an online 'season' mode there would be no worries - you only race on the track(s) you have. Simples.

Sorry mate, I don't think it's Simples at all, unless the DS (if they release a DS) is different to Race you don't know what is going to be in the Track or Car list when you join a Server (apart from the fact it will be WTCC Class for example), at the moment in DTM:E you join a Server, Race and are then dumped back in the Lobby, when\if the DS is released you will move onto the next track which you may not have, presumably you would then be kicked or is the Lobby going to be intelligent enough to only match you with a Server that has the content you have purchased?

WTCC is not multi class so all you need is one car. And then the tracks you desire or prefer to race on. It's not rocket science..... But i do understand completely why they come as a package.

Yes WTCC is single Class but what happens if you have only bought a BMW, does that mean you are only able to race Online against other BMW's, will you get a Mismatch if you try and join a Server with other WTCC cars?

Bryan O'Connor · Jul 8, 2014

Craig Stevenson said:
Sorry mate, I don't think it's Simples at all, unless the DS (if they release a DS) is different to Race you don't know what is going to be in the Track or Car list when you join a Server (apart from the fact it will be WTCC Class for example), at the moment in DTM:E you join a Server, Race and are then dumped back in the Lobby, when\if the DS is released you will move onto the next track which you may not have, presumably you would then be kicked or is the Lobby going to be intelligent enough to only match you with a Server that has the content you have purchased?

The DTME format is for quick race types and will be ideal for people with one car and 2 tracks from a pack. I don't imagine they will stray too far from what's out there now.
Take Forza as an example - You can race in lobbies with people who own different cars from a car pack to you and when a track appears that you haven't bought you can't race on it, but instead sit in the lobby (or leave) until it's done.
Not sure what a 'DS' is, but this is not iRacing and you won't be doing a 'season' so will not need all the content to pregress. This will be console like (and Race 07) plug n play i am sure.

Craig Stevenson said:
Yes WTCC is single Class but what happens if you have only bought a BMW, does that mean you are only able to race Online against other BMW's, will you get a Mismatch if you try and join a Server with other WTCC cars?

Why would it? You have the content on your HDD - its just a case of paying to unlock it. RRRE i will be able to race against the McLaren and R8 even though i have only bought the Z4. Why would it be any different?
Again see my Forza example above. Not having ALL the content won't stop you racing. Whether you have a BMW, Honda or Citreon.