DTM / SuperGT Join Forces in 'Class One' Regulations

[Eckhart von Glan]

another problem for dtm: there has been a local gt3 series up and running for years, the adac gt masters, so any solution that gets dtm too close to gt3 will produce overlap. also, the dtm has consistently failed to produce drivers people can relate to. with ekstrom out, only glock remains as a chap who sticks out, the rest are one interchangeable mass noone in germany knows. why should one go and watch them race?

 

[RobertGracie]

Germany and Japan working together....I have a bad feeling about this

 

[DrRob]

Some of you might be misunderstanding a thing or two. Super GT does endurance racing in a multi-class environment. DTM is sprint racing in a one class grit only.
This will not change. The rules of both series will be independent as they were before.
The only thing they harmonized are the technical regulations i.e. the build of the car (Engine, aero, safety,...).

And I think the change for DTM is a good thing indeed. Less aero and more power means more exciting races. I'm looking forward to what's to come!

BTW: Super GT mostly adopted Class One regulations earlier while DTM lagged behind.
Now imagine Super GT cars in the DTM and you will have a good idea about future DTM races.

 

[DrRob]

Germany and Japan working together....I have a bad feeling about this

Wrong forums mate.

 

[Nick Gregory]

so any solution that gets dtm too close to gt3 will produce overlap.

DTM and GT500 are already very different than GT3, so I wouldn't worry about that.

 

[Andrew Harper]

Interesting news, this has been in the works for many months and I'm glad Gerhard and the organisers managed to get a deal sorted.

This is almost like the spiritual successor to GT1. The ultimate form of a GT based race car.

I don't get chance to follow Super GT that closely in recent times (although I always enjoy the races I can catch) but I did watch some of the Jenson's podcasts and the cars are still very advanced. Basically an LMP2 car with car bodywork on top. Will be interesting to see how much of this is kept win the revised regulations.

I kind of understand @Will Mazeo and what he's saying. Super GT is great as it is, the grids are huge and the racing is great so there is a real danger of messing with a winning formula here.

My other slight question is what will happen with GT300? Ok, on the whole it's mainly GT3 class cars but hopefully those will be still kept. I assume so but maybe only in the Super GT championship. Probably a stupid comment but I hope they don't get pushed out.

However I'm glad we are going this route. When you look at business models like GT3, and GT4 (even LMP3) if you create a class of car that's a reasonable cost, and accepted in various race series you are onto a winner. If this becomes similar to something like DPi (where the chassis underneath is almost standardised to save costs and the cars have a corporate look) that could possibly work well too.

The idea of flame spitting 200mph GT style cars though is a nice thought. Hope it works well for them

My only other desire is it would be even better if the ACO allowed these new breed of cars into WEC/Le Mans. Highly unlikely but it would be cool!

 

[Andrew Harper]

DTM and GT500 are already very different than GT3, so I wouldn't worry about that.

Yeah I very much doubt it, the speed differential between GT500 and GT300 is huge. The current GT500 cars are as fast (or faster in some cases) than a modern LMP2 car. Even if they slowed them down a little they would still be very fast pieces of kit.

 

[RobertGracie]

Wrong forums mate.

Yeah well someone had to say it but I am sure its gonna be fun to watch them go at it, I would like to see 3 races with all the teams in on it, 1 in Japan, say Suzuka, 1 in Germany say the Nurburgring and 1 in a completely neutral location say Silverstone to sort out the best drivers from the combined league

 

[Will Mazeo]

SGT and DTM have had the same chassis rules for 2 or 3 years now. The difference has been in aero (SGT more advanced) and engines (SGT much more power). Honestly, looking at this, it sounds like SGT will stay exactly as is and DTM is the one that's changing in an effort of survival.

I don't see how this could possibly be bad for SGT?

That's not the only difference, and yes as I said above SGT is what DTM planned to be years ago, the difference is that SGT allow car (not only aero) and engine development while DTM even wanted to go with a single engine maker just putting Audi and BMW logos on it and making the car totally spec, nobody improve it in any way. Plus SGT has its amazing tire war.
If they'll race together SGT cant do anything like this (except maybe the tire war) because SGT is simply faster. Heck Honda was using a hybrid car not long ago lol they abandoned it as they never managed to make it work well, SGT then decided to put a ban on it I think, but was amazing to follow.
Watching SGT cars improve is really nice, they improved so much the directors had to reduce downforce to make them slower a bit. This is an amazing series to watch. Anyone that trully understand what they are watching would be sad with this news. By the amount of "disagree" you can see not many do.

And btw SGT was even better before they went with DTM tub regs, Japanese people can do great stuff on their own, wish they'd stick to that.

 

[Nick Hill]

Not an active follower of either series, but I hope it works out for both series for the sake of motorsports in general. Maybe it's just my impression, but it seems like interest is waning across the board.

This is guaranteed to get me some dislikes, but maybe electric vehicles will rekindle interest - perhaps people will start to see innovation in the vehicles themselves, as most of the people I know base their car purchase decisions on which one has the most tricked out infotainment system.

Wow, case in point on the EVs: https://www.wired.com/story/engineering-of-the-vw-pikes-peak-battery/

Something we've lost in motorsports over the years: awe. Meaning, due to the necessities of cost control and safety, rules & regs have become progressively tighter over the years to keep the various racing series afloat. The obvious pro being...well, the series are able to stay afloat! The big con being (as I see it) that we've lost that "WOW!" factor of feeling like the cars are getting progressively crazier every year in terms of lap speed, looks, etc.

I'm wondering aloud if EVs could be a chance to experience a new golden age of racing. For a multitude of reasons, there is (I believe) a small subset of the racing fan population who just flatly dismiss EVs (don't want one in their garage, sure as hell aren't going to pay to watch one on a track). But, for the majority of racing fans, my personal impression is the prevailing wisdom is "interesting tech, but nowhere near ready to compete performance-wise with ICE based cars...I'll check back in a few years when EVs are able to match (or even overtake) ICEs in performance".

That's pretty much been my attitude as well...but I'm wondering aloud if we're collectively missing out on the best part: seeing these EVs grow by leaps and bounds year to year.

 

[SAGY31]

At the moment DTM is nowhere near exciting for me to watch, while on the other hand Super GT is one of my favourite racing series. As far as I'm concerned DTM should adopt to Super GT and introduce multi class racing maybe with ADAC GT masters.

 

[Kostya Tkachenko]

At the moment DTM is nowhere near exciting for me to watch, while on the other hand Super GT is one of my favourite racing series. As far as I'm concerned DTM should adopt to Super GT and introduce multi class racing maybe with ADAC GT masters.

They will not fit into the Norisring

 

[JJSCA]

Great news, finally DTM may be brought to life by our japanese colleagues. Next step ban the theatrical nonsense played by our german manufacturers that has been killing DTM for years. I even have a suggestion for a penalty: all points removed for all manufacturers cars if unsporty manoeuvers are discovered (hum Mr Müller having his brake pedal glued to the floor with ducktape kind of things...). If this happens future looks bright for both series.

 

[M-Bimmer]

It was a matter of time especially after what we/some of us saw last year...

 

[T04STY]

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!! We want v8s on DTM!

Yeah I'm with you but that change was planned for like 3 years now so it had to happen at some point. But I really have to say, I was at Hockenheim when the Super GT cars were there and the engines they are using really aren't sounding that bad and were pretty loud so I don't think it'll be as dramatic as you think

 

[Matt Y]

Class one? gee, that sounds familiar

DTM is done.The major problem it always has had for many years is that the cars are so expensive to run there are no privateer or team run cars to fall back on when the manufacturers predictably leave like they always do.Look at any well supported series like GT3,BTCC & Supercar V8s & the common thing is that when manufacturers leave the series continues.

There's always TCR.

 

[Constantin Grimminger]

DTM is actually leaning more towards Super GT, as Super GT has already been adopting most of the class 1 regs, it's the DTM that is lagging behind as the manufacturers were reluctant to move to the 4 cylinder for this year.

*Mercedes was the only brand against it.

I'm very curious to see how the NSX fares against the AMG C63 or the RS5.

There will be no C63 around anymore, as Mercedes steps out of DTM. And they already ruled out that there will be any customer-entered AMGs.

 

[formidable]

Yeah I'm with you but that change was planned for like 3 years now so it had to happen at some point. But I really have to say, I was at Hockenheim when the Super GT cars were there and the engines they are using really aren't sounding that bad and were pretty loud so I don't think it'll be as dramatic as you think

Yeah. I listened a modern GT500, and it sounds pretty well!

 

[Bar Goldstein]

I think the class 1 regulations will be the worst thing to ever happen in motorsports once it passes to other types of races

 

[Bar Goldstein]

I think both series should adopt the regulations from GTE. end of discussion