DTM 2020 cars, cant get on with them

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Anyone else not get on with certain cars in raceroom?

Im not a useless driver but the way i have my wheel setup seems to hinder me with the 2020 DTM cars, slight throttle on corner exit and they seem to just spin the rear wheels and snap sideways at which point its time to face the wrong direction
 

Goffik

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Practice. :) Seriously though, the new DTMs are very, very touchy on the throttle. When that turbo kicks in it's incredibly easy to lose the rear. The key is to be ultra-patient and not get on the throttle too early. It does take time but isn't impossible... we ran a successful series with these cars shortly after their release and most people did ok.

You could perhaps try lowering the sensitivity of your throttle axis to give you a bit more range at the lower end if you really can't get the hang of them. However, I personally wouldn't do that as you end up getting used to it and it becomes hard to go back.

Another option might be to adjust the new engine map setting, if the DTM 2020s support it. I haven't checked if they do or not though.
 
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Practice. :) Seriously though, the new DTMs are very, very touchy on the throttle. When that turbo kicks in it's incredibly easy to lose the rear. The key is to be ultra-patient and not get on the throttle too early. It does take time but isn't impossible... we ran a successful series with these cars shortly after their release and most people did ok.

You could perhaps try lowering the sensitivity of your throttle axis to give you a bit more range at the lower end if you really can't get the hang of them. However, I personally wouldn't do that as you end up getting used to it and it becomes hard to go back.

Another option might be to adjust the new engine map setting, if the DTM 2020s support it. I haven't checked if they do or not though.

They dont support the engine map feature. Tbh it could be a combination of touchy throttle and bad habits picked up due to the fact im a big touring car fan so always tend to stick more to the fwd stuff. I used to have big issues with the porsche gt3 cup cars but forced myself to stick with them and get used to how they drove. Dont have issues with any of the other rwd stuff anymore just DTM which is a shame because the odd race i have had with them where i havent given up after spinning ive really enjoyed
 

Goffik

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They are indeed very fun cars when you get the hang of them. But they do require constant concentration throughout the whole race... any lapse and you're spinning.

Maybe look into some setup tweaks as well as improving your throttle control? Perhaps soften things up a bit to prevent even a tiny loss of rear wheel contact over bumps. I don't know if I still have my setups from the series or not, but if I do I'll post them for you to try. Perhaps some other members can do the same?
 

Jan Larsen

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I won the series back then and I used the default setups (which are very well balanced) with very few tweaks, like steering ratio. The key is throttle control. You need to be ultra precise with the throttle or it'll snap around instantly. I blame questionable tire physics partly, but the cars are rock hard in the setup and build with turbo engines - a 'great' combo for snap-happy handling.
 
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2,338
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They are indeed very fun cars when you get the hang of them. But they do require constant concentration throughout the whole race... any lapse and you're spinning.

Maybe look into some setup tweaks as well as improving your throttle control? Perhaps soften things up a bit to prevent even a tiny loss of rear wheel contact over bumps. I don't know if I still have my setups from the series or not, but if I do I'll post them for you to try. Perhaps some other members can do the same?

I don't personally think my throttle control is bad to be honest I never have issues in any other sims with rwd cars just these things seem at times like you're trying to accelerate on ice even slowly, turbo seems to come in like an old group b rally car where you get nothing, then all the boost at once :roflmao:
 

Goffik

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I don't personally think my throttle control is bad...
Don't get me wrong bud, I'm not saying your throttle control is bad. :) I'm saying that it can be improved, which is always the case isn't it? We can always get better. That's what I had to do to get used to the DTMs... make my good throttle control even better! ;)
 
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Don't get me wrong bud, I'm not saying your throttle control is bad. :) I'm saying that it can be improved, which is always the case isn't it? We can always get better. That's what I had to do to get used to the DTMs... make my good throttle control even better! ;)

Yeah thats very true. Will keep at it and try some different things and see how I get on, they won't defeat me haha
 
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Anyone else not get on with certain cars in raceroom?

Im not a useless driver but the way i have my wheel setup seems to hinder me with the 2020 DTM cars, slight throttle on corner exit and they seem to just spin the rear wheels and snap sideways at which point its time to face the wrong direction

The default setups are terrible. Soften the rear suspension by 50% and set the throttle sensitivity to 100% in controller settings and they become much more manageable.
 

Goffik

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... and set the throttle sensitivity to 100% in controller settings and they become much more manageable.
The trouble with messing with your input sensitivities is that you don't learn anything. It's like learning guitar while having someone else fret the chords for you.

If you can learn good enough throttle control to tame a DTM 2020 without this change, then it helps you drive just about everything else that is turbo-charged and/or throttle sensitive. Group 5s, Group Cs, FR-X, FR US, GTO... you'll see an improvement in all of them. Yes it takes practice, but that goes for all skills. Nobody is good at everything the instant they try it.
 
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The trouble with messing with your input sensitivities is that you don't learn anything. It's like learning guitar while having someone else fret the chords for you.

If you can learn good enough throttle control to tame a DTM 2020 without this change, then it helps you drive just about everything else that is turbo-charged and/or throttle sensitive. Group 5s, Group Cs, FR-X, FR US, GTO... you'll see an improvement in all of them. Yes it takes practice, but that goes for all skills. Nobody is good at everything the instant they try it.

I'd rather spend my time learning useful sim racing skills than learning to drive badly simulated race cars with wonky throttle maps in a world where race cars have ECUs with programmable throttle maps.
 

Goffik

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I'd rather spend my time learning useful sim racing skills...
Sorry, I didn't realise that throttle control wasn't a useful sim racing skill, or that you are a DTM driver who knows how the real car feels. :rolleyes:

Those of you having a tricky time with the cars, just take your time a bit and I mean that in more than just one way. Take your time learning the car as they are quite a contrast to say a GT3, and take your time every single time you hit the drive button with those stone cold slicks.

I saw the topic of development path came up; how it happened, who was involved, why it went in the direction it's gone etc. Let me tell you, the series organisers have been absolutely brilliant with respect to these cars. I have had literally everything I wanted at my disposal. Engine maps, damper charts, throttle maps, aero maps, race engineers, sessions with drivers, and so on. Those guys really steered it the way they wanted the cars to be. We even have an independent body which is responsible for "performance equalisation" (bop) involved to give us their input.

All in all, these cars really are the baby of a collaboration between Sector 3 Studios and other parties who are all involved in the real world series. Long may this sort of thing continue!
 
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I'd rather spend my time learning useful sim racing skills than learning to drive badly simulated race cars with wonky throttle maps in a world where race cars have ECUs with programmable throttle maps.


It was not permitted to have adjustable throttle modes during the 2020 DTM season. Throttle behaviour on these is completely linear once the turbo spools. 50% throttle for 50% of the power, 75%:75% and so on.

I'll lay down some facts;

- Torque peaks at 650nm. That's more than a typical GT3 in a car that doesn't have any driver aids and weighs 350kg less.

- The cars use anti-lag meaning that boost pressure is held high almost all the time. That gives an extremely aggressive throttle response compared to other turbocharged cars.

- Tyre warmers are not allowed. When you drive out the pitlane, you've got around 6% less tyre friction than a GT3 when it rolls out the pitlane with it's heated tyres. That might not sound much, but when you consider the above two points and that the tyres are the only thing in contact with the road surface it starts to build a picture.

A few tips:

- Absolutely do not drop the rear spring rates by huge amounts. You might gain a bit of traction at low speed but the rear of the car will compress at high speed and stall the diffuser, switching a majority of your downforce off.

- Increasing rear tyre pressures a small amount (~5-10kpa) will improve traction of cold tyres. This will make the rear friendlier at the start of a run, however if you drive for longer than 5-6 laps the rears will begin to overheat and bulge resulting is less traction. Default pressures are set to avoid that.

- Add rear wing, raise the rear end and drop the nose. That'll increase downforce but reduce top speed.
 
I think theyre great.

I can drive round brands hatch and barely touch the break in the Audi. Just honestly mate floor it and at those critical turning spots (I call them) slam the breaks on and turn...feel the cars balance and TRUST in the grip.

Sometimes at least try to left foot brake - you would be surprised at how much you save and become more efficient so to speak in your driving. If you do not already. I am going to guess you are out of sync/feel with the cars.

Watch those slip angles because you may just not be giving them enough of the turn they need, or by now over thinking it. Remember that grip can come back with the turn and friction is always happening if those wheels are spinning, a few degrees is nothing and may serve you well, so do not think you need a straight line. Cars probably get the most grip when the rubber is being warped in some manner anyway.

And then wonder if you are lining up the turn just fine, sometimes you may want to rely on the above and turn a little early if your mind/hands are not lining up with whats happening in the game/on screen.

So the answer was probably practice to dial it in - and when practicing do not be worried about going slower in order to nail each turn.

Remember people have driven round these tracks 100s/1000s of times.

Don't thank me. Thank Nigel Mansell for doing the exact same thing at a shopping center once. I saw it online. Sure I knew of the guy from Microprose grand prix in 1992/3 on the Amiga another english thing, and I am out in the colonies haha, but if I can pick it up from that, then I am hoping this is going to help out.

Setup I just take diff down a notch and soften front spring. But I could probably do ok on the default, but make no mistake I get frustrated if its not tuned to how I personally like. Because I am not that good but for some reason I do well with that

__

If for some reason its not clicking then these cars are the perfect thing to employ the youtube based online racing academy guys instructional videos

And when you soften/if you do the front suspension do not be afraid to then change the camber up a notch or two on the front. And adjust down the suspension speed a click for each, bump and rebound etc.

Sometimes thats over tuning it and you can back off on one. If you go around adjusting the suspension often its not pushing onto the road well as it used to, and secondary changes may help out.

With the audi for example, by then, my best driving comes when I adjust the diff to 195 or 200. Thats UP one/two notches. Its twitchier but makes it often better unless I am tired/feeling slow. Because the suspension is slow, and I am guessing the contact patch is still fat and wonderful on the road, I need the 195 adjustment to match it.

And then the brake bias is almost always 60% to the front or above. I map the change to my wheel. So I try to get comfortable in the car and map starter and fuel/engine-start to the wheel so I just push the knob then turn it.

Then like anything in the game it will take a couple laps in practice and maybe even race to get the best laps/push it hardest. So drive at least 3 laps I would say before you throw away a session in frustration. If the game has a car reset back on road button then I would map it (have not looked actually)

So anyway feel where the throttle comes on, and go round the spot of 50%-75% and work round that - you never want to be far away from the spot where it picks up so you can adjust throttle, same with brakes - squeeze them hard but not too hard... for brands its easy, you come around in 3rd or 4th squeeze for a squeal to 2/1, then 2nd accel, then 4th down into 2nd for turn up hill, then its fast down 1, fast up 1, down 2, then etc etc.

So you are barely moving too far from center at all times. Get a rythym and begin to maintain a constant predictable speed; i.e the highest possible constant speed without too many peaks or valleys apart from what the tracks gives you. So in order to do that you may trail brake gently through much of a turn for the spot where you know you can accelerate hard, usually half way through the thing (there is only 1 on brands thats going up the hill to the left the turn before the hill, 4th down to 2nd/3rd and accelerate asap up the hill). After that one the next long(er) bend to the right you coast round that basically, then drop down 1 gear and hard brake, accel, then drop down 2 wide left to right, sometimes 1 gear if you can cut it on the inside and no one is there or whatnot, accel, try to cut the next one going left then its onto the straight a bit later/couple of turns.

So everything is done just enough - brake just enough and limit the braking to one time and the least amount of hard pressing possible... (to explain, brake in 5 meters of track rather than 20 meters if possible) it unless its speed related braking where you want to gradually press it through a turn/line up the acceleration point and accelerate hard in the right spots just enough and the end result should be something smooth.

Sounds basic I know - but with most of the DTM's they handle really well. It should be possible in them all. And you can probably do it one handed in a simulator like I did a lap or 2 earlier. Because its a straightforward track brands. Brake and turn let the grip sort it out.
 
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