Does Double DNF Mask Haas' Potential?

[TomcatMF]

I've been encouraged to see the progress that Haas is making. It's nice to see a new team finally be competitive rather than be a moving chicane.

As for F1 being more popular in the US, that is a tall order because there are so many other sports around, and Motorsport in general is a niche market here. NASCAR is huge, but it pales in comparison to the NFL and NBA. The Indy 500 is still the most recognized race here, and it is usually a very exciting race (even if the cars are fugly).

I think having more races at a better time for Americans to watch it will help grow it a bit. I have to record the races and watch later, because I don't want to get up at 4:30 to watch it (I'm in California). If they moved the races back a few hours that would make it much easier to catch them live. Of course that would move the races to much later in the day for the core European fan base, but at least it wouldn't be at an ungodly hour for those folks.

As for an American Driver, there needs to be an incentive and path for a star American driver to compete in F1. Someone like Kyle Busch, Jimmie Johnson, Dale Earnhardt (I know they are NASCAR drivers, but they are all very well known here). If a household name can go to F1 and be competitive (i.e. WIN some races) then Americans will get more interested (this is the land of the bandwagoners).

 

[Jeff]

I think that if Stroll and Magnussen dont step up their game neither Haas or Williams will finish fourth in Abu Dabi.

 

[DND]

As of now the top three are Mercedes, Ferarri and Red Bull. The mid three are a bit harder to identify with drivers that may be a handicap to the cars potential. If Mags can become a consistent teammate I believe that Haas could challenge for that mid 4-5-6 team for constructors (assemblers) championship.

 

[wombat999]

I hope HAAS become more competitive, they are a sharp team and do have one decent driver, but I doubt they can move the US 'sporting public' in the right direction.
One of the best F1 operations to come out of the US was the Vels Parnelli outfit, with the top driver in Mario Andretti and a first class car designed by Maurice Phillipe, they should have caught on with the American fans.
Sadly it did not and after some 18 months IIRC they pulled out.
Caught an 'informal' interview with Chase Carey (Mark Webber 'ambushed' him) and the man appears to be a genuinely competent business man, unlike 'The Poison Dwarf'.
He answered some fairly blunt questions as best as he could at this time, while the presence of Ross Brawn was encouraging.
If the teams are forced to remove those hideous fins and 'T-Wings' I'd count that as positive progress.
Considering how good the first MotoGP round turned out, F1 has to get their ducks lined up right now.

 

[Scottt]

I think having more races at a better time for Americans to watch it will help grow it a bit. I have to record the races and watch later, because I don't want to get up at 4:30 to watch it (I'm in California). If they moved the races back a few hours that would make it much easier to catch them live. Of course that would move the races to much later in the day for the core European fan base, but at least it wouldn't be at an ungodly hour for those folks.

With DVR, the need to get up or stay up isn't really necessary any more. People around the world follow it, so there isn't every going to be an ideal time for a race. Although, it would probably make sense to rebroadcast qualifying/race on Saturday/Sunday at a reasonable time to gain attention.

As for an American Driver, there needs to be an incentive and path for a star American driver to compete in F1. Someone like Kyle Busch, Jimmie Johnson, Dale Earnhardt (I know they are NASCAR drivers, but they are all very well known here). If a household name can go to F1 and be competitive (i.e. WIN some races) then Americans will get more interested (this is the land of the bandwagoners).

For the most part, stars don't go to F1; you become a star at F1. With modern racing/F1; by the time you generate the reputation to become a start; you're already to old to get started in F1. In your particular examples; yes they are stars in the US; but it's hard to imagine someone who's grown up and made it driving stock cars on ovals is going to be able to make the jump to be competitive driving in F1 today.

 

[TomcatMF]

With DVR, the need to get up or stay up isn't really necessary any more. People around the world follow it, so there isn't every going to be an ideal time for a race. Although, it would probably make sense to rebroadcast qualifying/race on Saturday/Sunday at a reasonable time to gain attention.


For the most part, stars don't go to F1; you become a star at F1. With modern racing/F1; by the time you generate the reputation to become a start; you're already to old to get started in F1. In your particular examples; yes they are stars in the US; but it's hard to imagine someone who's grown up and made it driving stock cars on ovals is going to be able to make the jump to be competitive driving in F1 today.

And that is why you don't see many American drivers competing in the F1 feeder series. Opportunities are few unless you have some major financial backing, whereas you can get into NASCAR and IndyCar feeder series and have more opportunity to get to the highest levels, and greater likelihood of making a lot more money (in NASCAR at least, I don't know what kind of pay IndyCar drivers get these days). And if you do get into the series, you will most likely be in a car that can't hope compete in the midfield, much less the sharp end of grid. Perhaps there should be more weight given to Superlicense points in some of the American open wheel feeder series too (indy lights etc.) At least that would provide a path to F1 for more of the American driving talent.

It used to be that drivers would cross over to different series and compete (Mario Andretti comes to mind), but they don't anymore, which is too bad.

Also if F1 can gain a better foot hold in the US, they can attract some big money sponsors here. If it is one thing that the US has a lot of, it is money. And if the people that have it think they can get a good ROI, they will invest their money in a particular venture ($pon$or$hip$). That could even help some of the smaller teams to grow their budget and become more competitive.

 

[Scottt]

Also if F1 can gain a better foot hold in the US, they can attract some big money sponsors here. If it is one thing that the US has a lot of, it is money. And if the people that have it think they can get a good ROI, they will invest their money in a particular venture ($pon$or$hip$). That could even help some of the smaller teams to grow their budget and become more competitive.

I don't disagree; but the problem is to get that sponsorship money from a US driver; that US driver needs to be successful. Scott Speed and Alexander Rossi being American isn't/wasn't going to help sponsorship if they are consistently finishing out of the points. Neither had quality rides; but you aren't going to get a ride in Ferrari, Mercedes, or a modern RBR (yes, Speed did test for them) because of your nationality.

The only way I see an American driver breaking in to F1 is by actually coming up through the feeder systems. Unless Liberty Group can convince Mercedes to hire an American (they can't), then there won't be any shortcuts.

 

[Nick Hill]

The relative challenge of getting your foot in the door of the feeder system is what it all comes down to for American drivers.

This may or may not come as a surprise to non-US RD members, but it's hard to understate how well entrenched oval racing is stateside. To the point where, as Matt Orr pointed out, if you mention the word "racing" to 90% (probably higher) of Americans, their imaginations will automatically go to a mental image of a stock car speeding around an oval.

Oval racing is extremely well supported (in every sense of the word) and, as a result, the opportunities are absolutely everywhere...as a follow-on result of that, there are many guys all the way up and down the oval racing ladder who at one time had (what we in the states call) "road racing" aspirations, but came to a point in their career where it was a binary choice between ovals and not racing at all.

If you are in the US with "road racing" aspirations, it's pretty much "Road to Indy" or bust. That's a very narrow opportunity window and the ultimate dream at the end of that rainbow is "only" IndyCar, which simply doesn't have the prestige associated with it that it used to. Contrast that with the oval side, where you really only need to come up with a few thousand dollars to get into the grassroots stuff and then from there it's a relatively easy jump (key word being "relatively") to one of the semi-pro series that barnstorm the country on a regional basis.

tl;dr
Oval racing is popular in the US and probably always will be. Don't hold your breath for a top-flight US F1 driver.

 

[Keith_G]

Good point on the time of races.. f

Really? Who watches live TV anymore! I record all the races (and anything else I want to watch) and then watch it when it is convenient for me (a very old millennial I guess) Although I agree that having one F1 race a year in US doesn't do much to create fans (not to mention the prices). I went to the F1 race at COTA a few years ago and frankly it seemed there were more people from Mexico and Europe than the US, which just tells you where the real fans are. Having a US based team might help but would probably be more interesting for the casual US fan if it was also an american born driver.
As for Indycar - I was a big fan of the Indy 500 when a child and then CART came along and I really liked that but then there were years of acrimony between the George family and CART which resulted in me totally losing interest. Could get better in the future but it takes several generations of exposure to get real fans to follow racing.

 

[Matt Orr]

As for an American Driver, there needs to be an incentive and path for a star American driver to compete in F1. Someone like Kyle Busch, Jimmie Johnson, Dale Earnhardt (I know they are NASCAR drivers, but they are all very well known here). If a household name can go to F1 and be competitive (i.e. WIN some races) then Americans will get more interested (this is the land of the bandwagoners).

No NASCAR driver will ever make the jump to F1. Way too big of a career and team risk to go from no downforce heavy cars to ultra downforce single seaters packed with technology.

It absolutely would have to come from a imaginary IndyCar series people care about again. Except even then it's been proven to be one heck of a leap even if the driver clearly has raced competition as stiff as that faced in F1. Not counting just Americans here -

Michael Andretti failed miserably in his stint at McLaren. He stayed in the US, flew to the races, never gelled with the team and his results showed it. He was a much better driver than what his F1 results say and anyone who watched him in CART absolutely knows this.

Zanardi is in much the same case. His stint with Williams was unimpressive at absolute best, he never got the car to his liking to the point of even having Williams switch back to steel brakes because that is what he felt best with... It's pretty clear he was a much better driver than what his F1 results say.

Montoya was the exception, though in many ways his first tour of duty here in North America was more of preparation for F1. He never delivered the results he could have given how talented we all could see he was, and flamed out eventually over what today we'd call "politics in racing" - or in simple terms he hated his team, his team hated him and everyone was happy to get out of one an-others' life.

Bourdais dominated an admittedly dilapidated CCWS, got a chance with Toro Rosso, did about as expected outside of happening to have a future 4x world champ as a team mate, but again had a poor relationship with the team. Looking at what he has done outside F1, it's clear his stint in F1 was more the outlier than the norm...

This is why all the young American kids are going to Europe at like 13, because there is such a incredibly small chance the road to F1 can take a detour through Indy anymore, it's proven itself time and time again to flat out not work and everyone has learned. You can go West, but you can't go East.

The gap between the two series has widened massively since Michael tainted the waters. I'm not even talking about the cars, driver talent level, tracks or that - I'm talking about the whole "world" of the series. "American" teams - be it IndyCar, NASCAR, Sports Cars - clearly work with their drivers in a different fashion than what "European" teams do. We don't have "Number 2" drivers here, but they do for example. Different world, different culture, different way of working.

(Think about Mansell coming to the US in 93 - his team and teammates were an immense help in teaching him the ins and outs. This would not have happened if a driver of his caliber was going off to F1 - his teammates would leave him for dead as soon as they could for a competitive advantage. Go read Rossi's comments on the culture difference between the two worlds if you want more on that topic.)

I wish it weren't the case, but the only American you will see race competitively in F1 any time soon will have been living in Europe for half his life, to the point no one here will even know he's American.

Case and point : Alexander Rossi.

 

[Bobby Pennington]

Good point on the time of races.. for some reason I never really thought of it like that... I enjoy the early races myself but can see how difficult that can make it for most people.

I DVR everything so it really doesn't effect me. I also stay away from the net until I watch said race.

 

[Michael Watts]

It does mask their potential, when it comes to F1 2017, as they base all of their performance standards on the first race of the season.

 

[Deleted member 130869]

I hope Haas can keep buying absolutely all they can from Ferrari, and maybe in another two seasons can finally bring in their own ideas and development. But that engine failure... too reminiscent of the old Sauber customer engine days of doom.

 

[Peter Hooper]

I hope Haas can keep buying absolutely all they can from Ferrari, and maybe in another two seasons can finally bring in their own ideas and development. But that engine failure... too reminiscent of the old Sauber customer engine days of doom.

Great avatar buddy Still the best sim of all time

 

[Peter Hooper]

I DVR everything so it really doesn't effect me. I also stay away from the net until I watch said race.

I do the same for some of the racing I watch but it is very difficult to not catch some snippet that gives it all away these days.

 

[arniesan]

I'm in the UK and the time element is the same for all really; now that F1 is scattered round the world.
It is good that Haas has an F1 team and you have to start somewhere; if they are successful, maybe others will follow.
F1 is a niche sport, even here and mainland Europe; it is small potatoes compared to football (soccer) and in the UK other sports like Cricket, Rugby Union/League have as big, possibly bigger following than F1.
All classes of motor sport are popular over here, not just F1...the difference is, that Bernie made F1 worldwide.
The USA surely should have a place in it too.

 

[Bokonon]

You mean american football, right? I'm afraid you choose a bad example That's not exactly the kind of things we europeans know.

Yea, you should use something more universal, like bowling a leg break to get someone caught at silly-mid-off.

 

[TomcatMF]

I DVR most if not all the races too, like a lot of other folks. But my point about having the races at a better time of day has to do with the casual fan, or potential new fan who may be channel surfing and then come across the race and it might grab their attention when they see how fast these cars are. (F1 cars are the only ones that actually look fast on TV, I know the other series have fast cars, but TV doesn't do them justice). That might help grow the interest on this side of the pond.

 

[Bobby Pennington]

I do the same for some of the racing I watch but it is very difficult to not catch some snippet that gives it all away these days.

I've got a standing bounty on my friends heads if they even whimper about telling me something

 

[Bobby Pennington]

I'm in the UK and the time element is the same for all really; now that F1 is scattered round the world.
It is good that Haas has an F1 team and you have to start somewhere; if they are successful, maybe others will follow.
F1 is a niche sport, even here and mainland Europe; it is small potatoes compared to football (soccer) and in the UK other sports like Cricket, Rugby Union/League have as big, possibly bigger following than F1.
All classes of motor sport are popular over here, not just F1...the difference is, that Bernie made F1 worldwide.
The USA surely should have a place in it too.

Agreed. But we do have to be a willing and viable market. There's a lof of us in North America that love the sport, just don't know if there is enough.
I thought F1 was huge in Europe. Kind of surprised. How about the Isle of Man TT and the Irish Road Racing Series? I know you guys have a good base with the British Superbike Series. I love "Shakey" Byrne's name. I mean who wouldn't want to be side by side with a man on two wheels with a name like that