Does AC really need mods ?

[Alexandre Guzu]

A friend of mine said recently :

"Without mods, AC will last 1 year. With mods, it'll last 10."

What do you think ?

 

[Simon Roberts]

I think the success of AC will depend if modding teams will make content to the game, otherwise, the more content (paid) they release will never be enough, my opinion. Cheers.

How much content do you want is the question? Personally i will only race GT content as thats what i like and what im good at.

 

[Jari Vinnari]

Hopefully Kunos will make possible to buy all planned DLC's in one slightly reduced price package like EA is doing with BF4 premium package.

 

[Simon Roberts]

I think i just want to keep supporting them so they keep making great content, so long as your not talking £30 for each item like a car or track.

 

[Davy Lauwereys]

It appears that far too many sim racers simply don't think of the big picture. Expecting 5 years of entertainment for £30 is beyond cheap. No wonder we have so few quality products in our hobby.

Well, if the big picture is plonking down money for (limited) content, that people can create for free that is just as good, or in many cases better.... then,well, you can have your big picture
I guess i've been around to long to meet and work with so many talented people, to just roll over and start paying money for mediocre content from devs wanting to cash in from the unaware...

the reason there so few quality products in our hobby is because the last good FINISHED SIM is almost a decade old... all the rest upto now has been simcade at best that modders won't touch, and those that show promise are still early beta programs...
Surely, if one understands the work involved, it can't be that hard to figure out why all the latest stuff gets ripped into 10 year old sims??

 

[Simon Roberts]

Well, if the big picture is plonking down money for (limited) content, that people can create for free that is just as good, or in many cases better.... then,well, you can have your big picture
I guess i've been around to long to meet and work with so many talented people, to just roll over and start paying money for mediocre content from devs wanting to cash in from the unaware...

the reason there so few quality products in our hobby is because the last good FINISHED SIM is almost a decade old... all the rest upto now has been simcade at best that modders won't touch, and those that show promise are still early beta programs...
Surely, if one understands the work involved, it can't be that hard to figure out why all the latest stuff gets ripped into 10 year old sims??

Where is this "better" content?! I have yet to see any in any sim that looks better than what KS and iRacing produce. Please show me the laser scanned tracks and cars with data from the manufacturers that look as good as they do at the min from the devs?!

 

[Stuart Whitehead]

Well, if the big picture is plonking down money for (limited) content, that people can create for free that is just as good, or in many cases better....

Cant wait to see all this user made content that is as good as or better than the developers can create.

As Simon said, where are all the user made laser scanned tracks and cars with outstanding physics?

I can count on 10 fingers the mods that I've installed in the last 15 years that were worth paying for. VLM's tracks, HistorX, P&G and Neils cars. And not surprisingly the physics guys from those top quality mods are now the guys doing the physics for two of the best commercial products on the market.

Now the developers have considerably upped their game. (well, Kunos and iRacing have anyway) When modders can produce work of that quality then i'll agree with you, until then i'll be looking to purchase the "mediocre quality" that Kunos and iRacing make.

And on your other point...I dont want a "finished" sim. I want one that starts out great on release and continues to develop for many years.

 

[Davy Lauwereys]

Where is this "better" content?! I have yet to see any in any sim that looks better than what KS and iRacing produce. Please show me the laser scanned tracks and cars with data from the manufacturers that look as good as they do at the min from the devs?!

Just because you haven't seen it, doesn't mean it is isn't out there...
Start by looking in the right places i'd say...
Laserscanned cars are not the end all, be all.... i'll bet you i can cut half the polycount of your laserscanned car, and you won't notice the difference... does that make it worth the 15€ pricetag then? imho it doesn't...
You mention iRacing.... i'll say, a mate has iRacing and all the cars and tracks, and it cost him in excess of 850£, last time he counted... that seem reasonable to you lol? and in my eyes he still only has a handfull of cars and tracks, of wich half of them aren't even interesting and can only do "cupracing" as their is only 1 model GT1, GT2, GT3, LMP2, DP.... blows me away... laughing 5 years in...

Anyhow, that is not the discussion at hand.... you have some tracks you can count on 1 hand, a few cars, no decent ffb, only hotlaps you can do, no ai to drive against, not even pitstops.... but somehow, AC is going the best thing since sliced bread, because "they" say so ... gee, i could swear i've heard this song and dance before with other games, and came up dissapointed
Come on, this is silly..... it's all BS until it's actually coded and on your HD ready for you to use....

Let's just hope, AC, when it's eventually finished, is decent and provides the mod support they claim, they can release DLC all they want for all i care, as long as they make good on the mod support they boast and the foundations are decent (driverswap!....cough cough, nudge nudge, wink wink), it can only be beneficial to everyone.

 

[Simon Roberts]

Just because you haven't seen it, doesn't mean it is isn't out there...
Start by looking in the right places i'd say...
Laserscanned cars are not the end all, be all.... i'll bet you i can cut half the polycount of your laserscanned car, and you won't notice the difference... does that make it worth the 15€ pricetag then? imho it doesn't...
You mention iRacing.... i'll say, a mate has iRacing and all the cars and tracks, and it cost him in excess of 850£, last time he counted... that seem reasonable to you lol? and in my eyes he still only has a handfull of cars and tracks, of wich half of them aren't even interesting and can only do "cupracing" as their is only 1 model GT1, GT2, GT3, LMP2, DP.... blows me away... laughing 5 years in...

Anyhow, that is not the discussion at hand.... you have some tracks you can count on 1 hand, a few cars, no decent ffb, only hotlaps you can do, no ai to drive against, not even pitstops.... but somehow, AC is going the best thing since sliced bread, because "they" say so ... gee, i could swear i've this song and dance before with other games, and came up dissapointed
Come on, this is silly..... it's all BS until it's actually coded and on your HD ready for you to use....

Let's just hope, AC, when it's eventually finished, is decent and provides the mod support they claim, they can release DLC all they want for all i care, as long as they make good on the mod support they boast and the foundations are decent (driverswap!....cough cough, nudge nudge, wink wink), it can only beneficial to everyone.

So they are in a mysterious sim racing place that you aren't prepared to share? Thought it was meant to be a community? Seriously there are NO tracks that compete with what is available from iR or KS. I was watching the vWEC at the weekend, and for what is meant to be the latest and greatest from rF2 devs it looked pretty poor, especially the track. I can't see how these mods are better?!

Yes Ac is early access but the FFB and physics are leaps and bounds ahead of rF2 AND iRacing (which i have spent a lot on and enjoy for its superb racing structure).

 

[Stuart Whitehead]

you have some tracks you can count on 1 hand, a few cars, no decent ffb....

We have quality tracks, a few very well made cars..better than any I've driven in any other sim, and the FFB is sublime. I cant ask for anything more from an early beta.

Quality>quantity.
netKar Pro only had a very limited vehicle selection, yet because they were so bloody good i got more entertainment out of driving them for 5 years than i did out of nearly every mod i downloaded for rFactor put together.

 

[Mark Quigley]

There have been quite a few mods outside simracing that have been on par or better than big budget titles. Just an opinion mind but I would take Red Orchestra over Call of Duty any day.
Mods tend to be a permanent WIP , a labor of love that is never really finished and in constant flux, imo this tends to affect perceived quality.
Oh and the fact that content is being ripped from older titles, a car built for a game that is years old being dumped into new shiny game will never look and feel as good as it can.

 

[Davy Lauwereys]

So they are in a mysterious sim racing place that you aren't prepared to share? Thought it was meant to be a community?

i'm not about to disrespect RD by breaking their rules in order to prove a moot point

early beta.

No offence, but.... doodling around on your own does not equal SIMracing ... funny thing about racing is, it isn't really racing unless theres more then 1

Doesn't mean i'm saying that AC isn't fun to DRIVE around in at this stage...

There have been quite a few mods outside simracing that have been on par or better than big budget titles.
Mods tend to be a permanent WIP , a labor of love that is never really finished and in constant flux, imo this tends to affect perceived quality.
Oh and the fact that content is being ripped from older titles, a car built for a game that is years old being dumped into new shiny game will never look and feel as good as it can.

these...

 

[Bram Hengeveld]

For me the real modding days have been long gone for already a couple of years unfortunately.

With of course a lot of positive exceptions (some already mentioned above) a growing group of people rip, steel, do hasty low quality crap conversions and only do it for personal fame, glory and ego.

Thats not what modding was about and I find it unbelievable that such simracers modders rippers still get a platform to share their crap.

Modding is about creating and we will do our best to highlight these individual and teams that create original mods for Assetto Corsa and other games as well. That should be the real love imo and thankfully we have seen a lot of great WIPs already of very promising cars, tracks, buildings and other high quality stuff made by very enthusiastic modders that seem to have returned to the community which is fantastic!

Lets bring back the old days

 

[Mr Whippy]

The last really good sim was rFactor imo, a properly set up physics engine... arguably better than AC now which has some large scale simplifications on suspension kinematics (why I wonder?)

But the reason not many good cars were made for rFactor was due to poor support from devs. Dev support is forcing the content quality.

It took Niels years to understand how the tyre model worked for example, rather than just being told explicitly what happened.

Other tools like Kangaloosh suspension maker to generate nice suspensions because no tools were included with rFactor.


AC will suffer in exactly the same way if tools are not provided to help modders make good mod content. The suspension model alone looks like it needs an external app to generate the numbers you feed into it.


As for laser scanned tracks, well it's no surprise why modders can't approach that quality.

But there is no reason a fantasy track can't feel and look as good as any laser scanned track without the expectations and quality constraints placed upon them because of a lack of access to a real track with a laser scanning vehicle.


Once you have the scan data, making a track from lidar is no harder, if not a bit easier, than doing one using old techniques.


Yes mods = lots of crap, but it also = lots of amazing content.

Given the old cost/quality/speed triangle, any good mod is probably going to have more love and attention lavished on it than a paid for content.

The quality just depends on the skills of the modder, and we can't judge that until we sample the finished products!


Dave

 

[Rui Santos]

Finally someone understands me, now just wait for some guy to get here and say he'll pay 1000€ for a laserscanned ******* track and the constructive conversation will be ruined...

 

[Davy Lauwereys]

regardless of origines, there is a clear destinction between a MOD and a convertion. Sadly this get missed by many, and as such the true gems usually stay out of the eyes of Johnny Mainstream.
Funnily enough Bram, it's those old schoolers that nowadays elect not to be in the spotlight with their mods anymore...

 

[Bram Hengeveld]

Also because some old schoolers got a job at game development studios.

We don't need the oldschool modders back per say but the spirit of that time was imo a lot better than today. But thankfully there are still newcomers that are willing to dedicate all their free time in a project to satisfy other people with a great mod.

We should cherish these people really and give them the credits they deserve (and a bit of love now and then won't hurt either ).

 

[Simon Roberts]

Finally someone understands me, now just wait for some guy to get here and say he'll pay 1000€ for a laserscanned ******* track and the constructive conversation will be ruined...

You have misunderstood everything I have said, I have said i will always pay for quality. I wont tolerate crap, no matter if its paid for or free. But generally things you pay for tend to have a much higher quality and i expect KS DLC to be paid for and to be quality, you cant expect everything for free, thats not how the world goes around.

 

[Mapu]

... generally things you pay for tend to have a much higher quality...

ugh.... I doubt that

... you cant expect everything for free, thats not how the world goes around...

really? ... I truly can't count the times anymore and wish for a dime everytime I read this silly line... it's like you except that your partner of conversation is out of this world, which is, to say the least, kind of insolent

 

[Mr Whippy]

Thing is how good is AC content?

It's still beta so we can't really judge but I say don't underestimate good modders.

The old modders have left but now but new modders come along all the time.

My view long term is that the perfect racers game will be a platform only with heavy support for modders to do all the content.
If someone like KS doesn't do it with AC it'll be a freebie game in Unity in a few years time... Think open source sim.

 

[Mr Whippy]

As for pay vs free, don't underestimate a group of like minded people working on a common goal/passion.

By and large open source is creeping wider and getting better as the years pass. It does that mainly because paid for companies treat their customers as cash cows rather than partners.

I truly hope KS are seeing us as the latter. I'd rather pay for physics/mods tools updates than DLc content for example because the latter will give an ROI forever for owners with better mods and longer game shelf life etc.