DIY Ferrari 2011 Wheel

[William Geuze]

At this point in time I'm in the research phase for my future DIY project. I have never done anything like this, and I'm certainly no handy man. You think this sounds weird? Wait till you read what I want to do...

In short, this is what I want to build:

Features:
Leo Bodnar SLI-Pro
Shifter paddles
Clutch paddles
Hall effect sensors for clutch (Allegro A1302)
Microswitches for shifters (???)
12 rotary switches
3 regular switches
10 (knitter) pushbuttons (only if I can strike a deal)
Quick release
2 layers of Carbon fibre shell
glass fibre cast
rubber grips

I will create my own CAD drawings, guestimating measurements, with the help from some known sizes, and my own 3d model made for my 3D portfolio.

Estimated cost: €450,-

Yes, this might seem way out of my league for someone who has no experience with this stuff at all. Because it is. But I'm a stubborn bastard and I would love to do this. There isn't a single product on the market which suits me for an affordable price. Buying a Thrustmaster and adjusting that still sucks, since thats costs about 500 without the SLI-Pro and buttons added, and it basically is a plastic toy still..

For now, I have the following questions:
- According to Bodnars' website, the hall effect sensor can be connected directly to the SLI-pro, is this true?
- Is it expensive to have moulds routed/cnc-ed?
- Which microswitches for the shifters? What about the mounting, no idea how just yet.
- Is the quick release worth my money?
- Is it possible to route all wires through the steering wheel/colum into the steering wheel base?
- I will be in the market for a new steering wheel base, Im still using an old Momo Racing. second hand g27?

Any feedback, opinion, help etc, is much appreciated.


edit:
Before I forget, any plans, templates, files I create, will be free to use by the community Im just not responsible for any mistakes in them

 

[Devil_Dog]

It can be done but with modifications to the SLI and to the wheel. Also, unless your rolling in the dough I would not attempt it unless you have access to the wheel to inspect it and see the true construction of the wheel and how it is assembled and to what degree can it be disassembled.

 

[William Geuze]

Yeah thats a good point, so all in all, very small chance of that actually working for you, unless you can afford to make the gamble.

Tomorrow all I have to do is double check and refine the clutch paddle and I think I'm done adjusting my drawings for a while! Im focussing my energy on finding a place to live

 

[Miguel Gonzalez]

But first, I need to find some wiring diagrams for the SLI board. Any information you can share?

Here's a link to the SLI-Pro manual, the wiring diagrams are the last few pages:

http://www.eksimracing.com/slipro_manual/

 

[belldanndy]

Yeah, it sound like that. I will try to find some more details on the inside construction and how can it be open. Thanks for Mike's suggestion.
Hope you can find a better place to stay and work on your wheel in a cosy environment.

 

[belldanndy]

Here's a link to the SLI-Pro manual, the wiring diagrams are the last few pages:

http://www.eksimracing.com/slipro_manual/

Thanks for the link!!

 

[William Geuze]

Yeah, it sound like that. I will try to find some more details on the inside construction and how can it be open. Thanks for Mike's suggestion.
Hope you can find a better place to stay and work on your wheel in a cosy environment.

Thanks i hope so too! I do have some careful good news, and that is my brother and me will
split the costs of the SLI-F1 for the prototype, this probably means we can get it on release!

 

[belldanndy]

Thanks i hope so too! I do have some careful good news, and that is my brother and me will
split the costs of the SLI-F1 for the prototype, this probably means we can get it on release!

Wow! Great news! That means I can still wait for your wheel first, so I don't need to risk on the Amalgam wheel. I have high hope on your project.

 

[William Geuze]

Haha awesome stuff to hear

Do mind do you still need some patience. I do appreciate your interest but I have no clue when I can have a customer wheel available. The first two finished ones will be for me and my brother.


Just out of curiosity, how would the people interested in purchasing want their unit. I mean, fully assembled? Only the major parts? Full package with everything in there including quick release? For example, if the SLI-F1 will be installed by me, I will have to order that as well and wait for the part to arrive. This all adds to building the wheel and although many complain about the Zroso wheels taking a long time to arrive, all parts take time to ship. It's too expensive to have these parts in stock when you're just doing this for the heck of it.

Everything is possible ofcourse, but it will cost money obviously. What is also a bit of a moral point, I want to make really sure that if I'm going to sell this to people, it is worth the money. I am no company and do not intent to make a profit on this if I intend to sell them, they simpy do need to be able to stand some heavy use. After all, they are meant to keep working for a long wheel, independant of what base that is used with it, aside from high torque wheels.

edit:
If you want, I can calculate the rough costs to produce one wheel, hardware and materials only, excluding the SLI-F1.

 

[simracn]

Yes, please guesstimate what it will cost. Parts are not cheap and its surprising how quick they add up. Then you also have design, programming, wiring, building time to think about as well.

 

[William Geuze]

I will not charge anything for designing the parts since I'm doing it for myself anyway.
About the costs, I can post something later tonight on the costs, excluding SLI-F1 that is.

 

[William Geuze]

Here it is, an honest list on pricing. You will probably never get to see this from commercial builders, since thats not going to be me, there's the difference. That difference might also lie in quality, keep that in mind, they will have a more streamlined production and can offer lower prices on parts, but do charge labor.


Part Per one Amount Price
Frame* € 75,00 1 € 75,00
1m2 Carbon Fibre* € 32,00 2 € 64,00
1m2 Glassfibre* € 12,00 4 € 48,00
Resin and materials € 25,00 1 € 25,00
Rotary Switch € 6,42 5 € 32,10
Rotary Encoder € 4,50 2 € 9,00
Microswitch € 2,35 2 € 4,70
Hall Effect sensor € 1,93 2 € 3,86
Magnet* € 1,00 2 € 2,00
Pushbutton Knitter € 9,62 12 € 115,44
Pushbutton Cheaper € 0,65 0 € 0,00
Tumble Switch Knitter € 9,03 5 € 45,15
Main Knob € 7,00 1 € 7,00
Switch Knob € 2,75 5 € 13,75
Encoder Knob € 6,50 2 € 13,00
Encoder Ring € 3,00 2 € 6,00
Led € 0,66 6 € 3,96
Led Ring € 1,50 2 € 3,00
Led Double Ring € 1,50 2 € 3,00
Hex Nut M3 € 0,13 8 € 1,04
Hex Nut M4 € 0,11 2 € 0,22
Hex Nut M5 € 0,09 3 € 0,27
Hex Screw M5x40 € 0,14 3 € 0,42
Hex Screw M5x30 € 0,29 2 € 0,58
Hex Screw M4x12 € 0,19 2 € 0,38
Hex Screw M3x8 € 0,19 6 € 1,14
Washer 12mm € 0,05 5 € 0,25
Hex Countersunk M3x25 € 0,09 4 € 0,36
Clutch Mount* € 25,00 2 € 50,00
Clutch Paddle* € 12,00 2 € 24,00
Torsion Spring* € 1,00 2 € 2,00
Shifter Paddle € 7,50 2 € 15,00
Compression Spring € 2,00 2 € 4,00
Compression Spring Short* € 1,00 2 € 2,00
Quickrelease spacer € 0,50 1 € 0,50
Hex M3x16mm € 0,09 2 € 0,18
Hex spacer M3x6** € 0,25 8 € 2,00

Total € 578,30 or ~$700

* Needs to be fabricated, estimated cost
** Sizes will differ

All in all, yes, it will be expensive. This is not including a professional grade quickrelease which is by far the most expensive part. Personally I will use a adapter to go onto a wheel until I have money extra to spend on a quickrelease, and that might never happen. Also, quite expensive pushbuttons and tumble switches are used, there is quite some money to save there. For the rotary switches, standard knobs can be used on those, as well as for the main knob. On every part, corners can be cut ofcourse. But personally, I'm not going to do that, the only part that will I leave out is a quick release for now, as that is really something extra, the wheel will function perfectly without it.

A short disclaimer, I don't by any means say that if I go ahead and start selling this wheel this will be the price you pay. The actual costs to produce this might higher, or lower, depending on how it do it or whatever parts you supply yourself or want used.

Hopefully you guys are aware now that the pricerange which the other wheels are in, aren't bad for what you get If I calculated labor for the design and later on for producing the wheel or kit, well... I'd end right up in the price range that Italian company is in

 

[belldanndy]

Haha awesome stuff to hear

Do mind do you still need some patience. I do appreciate your interest but I have no clue when I can have a customer wheel available. The first two finished ones will be for me and my brother.


Just out of curiosity, how would the people interested in purchasing want their unit. I mean, fully assembled? Only the major parts? Full package with everything in there including quick release? For example, if the SLI-F1 will be installed by me, I will have to order that as well and wait for the part to arrive. This all adds to building the wheel and although many complain about the Zroso wheels taking a long time to arrive, all parts take time to ship. It's too expensive to have these parts in stock when you're just doing this for the heck of it.

Everything is possible ofcourse, but it will cost money obviously. What is also a bit of a moral point, I want to make really sure that if I'm going to sell this to people, it is worth the money. I am no company and do not intent to make a profit on this if I intend to sell them, they simpy do need to be able to stand some heavy use. After all, they are meant to keep working for a long wheel, independant of what base that is used with it, aside from high torque wheels.

edit:
If you want, I can calculate the rough costs to produce one wheel, hardware and materials only, excluding the SLI-F1.

For me, sure I will go for a complete one and I don't mind to paid deposit for it. The main problem with Roso wheel is no feedback what so ever, with full payment have to be make first, people just worry about what happen to their wheel. So customer support with feedback is quite important I think.
It will be great to have some options list, like SLI-F1, Knitter switch, Quick Release and adapter for the base unit.

 

[belldanndy]

Here it is, an honest list on pricing. You will probably never get to see this from commercial builders, since thats not going to be me, there's the difference. That difference might also lie in quality, keep that in mind, they will have a more streamlined production and can offer lower prices on parts, but do charge labor.


Part Per one Amount Price
Frame* € 75,00 1 € 75,00
1m2 Carbon Fibre* € 32,00 2 € 64,00
1m2 Glassfibre* € 12,00 4 € 48,00
Resin and materials € 25,00 1 € 25,00
Rotary Switch € 6,42 5 € 32,10
Rotary Encoder € 4,50 2 € 9,00
Microswitch € 2,35 2 € 4,70
Hall Effect sensor € 1,93 2 € 3,86
Magnet* € 1,00 2 € 2,00
Pushbutton Knitter € 9,62 12 € 115,44
Pushbutton Cheaper € 0,65 0 € 0,00
Tumble Switch Knitter € 9,03 5 € 45,15
Main Knob € 7,00 1 € 7,00
Switch Knob € 2,75 5 € 13,75
Encoder Knob € 6,50 2 € 13,00
Encoder Ring € 3,00 2 € 6,00
Led € 0,66 6 € 3,96
Led Ring € 1,50 2 € 3,00
Led Double Ring € 1,50 2 € 3,00
Hex Nut M3 € 0,13 8 € 1,04
Hex Nut M4 € 0,11 2 € 0,22
Hex Nut M5 € 0,09 3 € 0,27
Hex Screw M5x40 € 0,14 3 € 0,42
Hex Screw M5x30 € 0,29 2 € 0,58
Hex Screw M4x12 € 0,19 2 € 0,38
Hex Screw M3x8 € 0,19 6 € 1,14
Washer 12mm € 0,05 5 € 0,25
Hex Countersunk M3x25 € 0,09 4 € 0,36
Clutch Mount* € 25,00 2 € 50,00
Clutch Paddle* € 12,00 2 € 24,00
Torsion Spring* € 1,00 2 € 2,00
Shifter Paddle € 7,50 2 € 15,00
Compression Spring € 2,00 2 € 4,00
Compression Spring Short* € 1,00 2 € 2,00
Quickrelease spacer € 0,50 1 € 0,50
Hex M3x16mm € 0,09 2 € 0,18
Hex spacer M3x6** € 0,25 8 € 2,00

Total € 578,30 or ~$700

* Needs to be fabricated, estimated cost
** Sizes will differ

All in all, yes, it will be expensive. This is not including a professional grade quickrelease which is by far the most expensive part. Personally I will use a adapter to go onto a wheel until I have money extra to spend on a quickrelease, and that might never happen. Also, quite expensive pushbuttons and tumble switches are used, there is quite some money to save there. For the rotary switches, standard knobs can be used on those, as well as for the main knob. On every part, corners can be cut ofcourse. But personally, I'm not going to do that, the only part that will I leave out is a quick release for now, as that is really something extra, the wheel will function perfectly without it.

A short disclaimer, I don't by any means say that if I go ahead and start selling this wheel this will be the price you pay. The actual costs to produce this might higher, or lower, depending on how it do it or whatever parts you supply yourself or want used.

Hopefully you guys are aware now that the pricerange which the other wheels are in, aren't bad for what you get If I calculated labor for the design and later on for producing the wheel or kit, well... I'd end right up in the price range that Italian company is in

Well, this is just great that you show all the detail price list, and the price range is reasonable for the wheel. For me, the look and feel of the CF is most important, so with similar price as other, your wheel still can stand out fine!

 

[William Geuze]

Cool, good to know the couple of guessess i made were on the safe side so hopefully those are bit lower cost in the end.

For the lifeline, or sparco counterpart, expect to spend 250 dollars on that alone. Then it needs to be fitted to your wheel.

For me, sure I will go for a complete one and I don't mind to paid deposit for it. The main problem with Roso wheel is no feedback what so ever, with full payment have to be make first, people just worry about what happen to their wheel. So customer support with feedback is quite important I think.
It will be great to have some options list, like SLI-F1, Knitter switch, Quick Release and adapter for the base unit.

The more you add, the scarier the price will be
Anyway, this is a careful list and I will keep tab on the actual costs when I'm going to build the first and second wheel. With those built, I should have an exact number

Can you do me a favor? Whatever wheel you have, can measure the distance across the bolts, radius, threadsize, for the adapter? This would be handy to have for G25/G27 and T500 I already have an idea in mind to produce wheel adapters where it will consist of two parts. The first part will attach directly to the wheel to replace the quickrelease, and the second part will be a custom piece depending on which wheel base you own. That part will be attached to the standard adapter, and then the entire assembly can be installed onto your own wheelbase.

When chosen for a quickrelease, a seperate adapter must be made out of aluminum or other metal so it can be welded to the spline of the quickrelease. I did notice there were splines made out of some synthethic material which might be adjusted to fit onto the wheels of choice. The latter might be a much cheaper option and just as good for use on these fancy schmansy toys of ours

If you are dead serious about this entire deal, we can talk privately about it if you want to see what options there are. I hopefully established myself being an honest bloke who just wants to have fun with a custom wheel that I build myself, and I like to keep it that way

edit:
it's not too expensive on this here website
http://www.rallynuts.com/quick-release-hubs/lifeline-formula-quick-release-steering-hub.html
(think it comes without spline though! if it does, cheap!)

 

[simracn]

but that one looks like it uses a weld on spline hub. You can find the group N quick releases on ebay, and he is in the UK. Or another choice is NRG 2.0 2.5 and 3.0 have extra tabs on the rings to help with release instead of just the ring. I will not use any of the momo or other types like that as the holes have a habit of not lining up top to bottom.

 

[William Geuze]

It does use a weld on spline, but there is another one as well to use with it:
http://www.rallynuts.com/user/products/large/RTQNY_600.jpg

If that can be fitted, would be cool. The weld on spline can be used no matter what I just have to construct a base to weld it on, won't be hard. Heck if anything you can weld it on one of Derek Spears universal adapters, would probably work great if you weld it on there straight! Thats not even a bad idea come to think of it

The nrg quick release simply aren't an option, the steering wheel will use a 3 hole formula style quick release as on the real thing

 

[belldanndy]

http://www.rallynuts.com/quick-release-hubs/lifeline-formula-quick-release-steering-hub.html

This is what I'm looking for! I only know it need an adaptor to mount the Male Spline Shaft to the wheelbase and need the "410-200-001 Formula Car with 8 pin electrical contact" for wiring connection between the wheel and the wheelbase.

 

[William Geuze]

Yep thats it, that is the QR I used in my design, it comes quite close to the one on the reference photos

 

[Mr Pibb]

Hey wgeuze, what ffb unit are you attaching this wheel to? If it's a G25 or G27 you could save a buck load of cash and trouble by using the G25s shifter paddles and hub for mounting. I know it's not as good as what you're proposeing, but it cheap - free in fact.

I mounted a wheel to the G25 by just drilling 6 13mm holes in the back of the wheel chassis and using the original G25 wheel front cover plate to fix the wheel direct to the G25s shifters. You could add little extensions if ness to the G25s paddles. You can pass a USB cable through too and it'll be hidden.

Here's a pic of what I mean: These are the holes in the new wheel compared to the original G25 rim:

This is a the same momo racing black wheel mounted on a G25 FFB unit. There's a front cover that goes over this hub so the mount is unseen.

The G25 shifter paddles from behind:

It's just a thought of how to save some cash and time. You can always add your own shifter paddles and a quick release later.

 

[William Geuze]

Hehe I saw that Momo wheel before

Thanks for the advice
Im going to build a standalone* replica which can be fitted to every wheel which allows for the rim to be removed by using bolts.
*achieved by SLI-F1 and 2part-adapter

I know this ambitious and I'm picky, but I am all those things, and don't forget stubborn..
The distance between those holes (through center) would be nice to know

Agreed big time on the quickrelease, thats too steep even for me, but I will build the wheel with it in mind so no adjusting is needed at all. Also the rear of this design is built around the QR a bit so I am stuck with the design anyway. That is why I'm going to try and design a part which functions as a 2 part adapter. This will be the only part I will design myself, so I'm curious what it will end up looking like and how much it will cost to build. Obviously I'll keep you guys updated on that. Will probably start working on that next weekend

edit:
btw speaking of that usb cable. How hard is it to route it through the hub? There probably is some adjustments required I reckon?