Discussion | Direct Drive Wheels: The Good, Bad And The Ugly

[Paul Jeffrey]

Discussion time! Direct Drive wheels are becoming increasingly common in sim racing, but which one should you get?

Long gone are the days of just one or two niche manufacturers developing DD wheel solutions for a hardcore few. In 2020, the discerning sim racer has a wealth of choice when looking to make the switch to Direct Drive... but with so many options, and such a high price point, what constitutes a good purchase?

I am not going to even try and pretend I am an expert on all the different DD bases available today, far from it in fact, so I thought it worth throwing up this thread for our community to discuss their own experiences, and offer up advice to those still thinking over their next steps.

For the record, I run the Bodnar SimSteering V2 and absolutely love it; however at the price point they are asking, you will probably want to follow the route I took and purchase it second hand!

 

[passenger]

These Direct Drive wheels are, to start off, way way obscenely expensive, and with motors too
strong which means a big risk to damage your arms/hands or someone else's... I don't like
them for this at all.

On the other hand, people talk of them for having a better Force Feedback, which to me it
doesn't mean better because being, let's say, more sensible, and offering more detail is
not a good thing simply because today's most good wheels already offer a lot of detail
or information, and with that much info going on it gets distracting and confusing, you
don't know if you just felt a bump or a slide or understeer or a flat spot or all these
together at the same time. More and more is not better. I preffer more simplicity.

And, don''t forget, real cars don't give this much of information nor with such big strength
to your hands through a wheel.

But... you know what, the industry must be creating new products in order to keep selling
and selling and selling..

 

[Cote Dazur]

Looking for honest comments about DD wheels. Keeping in mind that anyone spending that much money on a wheel will feel like he has to justify spending so much, admitting it is only bringing only a little bit to the party is hard to ask.
The law of diminishing return, so common in all hobbies, are most likely applying to DD wheels.
It cannot be to get a stronger wheel, since we cannot even enjoy “mid range” wheel at full power in 90% of cases.
It is probably not to feel more, as at the end of the day their is only so much, in the present state of its implementation, FFB can tell.
FFB can only communicate so much in the best cases of implementation (insert your favorite SIM name here), despite some claiming FFB can even make coffee and predict the future, in certain cases, as we read so often, the existing “mid range” are already more capable than what present day FFB can produce.
So what does DD wheel really do that justify the expense. It is easy to understand why someone would want to build them and sale them, nothing wrong with selling expensive stuff and nothing wrong either, if you have money to burn, to indulge in luxury. But for the average Joe, it will take more than I could not go back, to explain exactly what the DD does that justify the expense.

 

[PurgerUK]

I run a Bodnar mk2 and certainly don’t regret it though I also run a sim motion rig and G-seat which together with VR makes for great immersion. I usually run it at 30% which is generally more than enough and no risk of injury. Another thing worth mentioning is they are completely silent because as well as no teeth or belts there are no cooling fans. In terms of justifying the expense I can afford it and don’t have kids so I get to buy the toys I want.

 

[dave kirk]

These Direct Drive wheels are, to start off, way way obscenely expensive, and with motors too
strong which means a big risk to damage your arms/hands or someone else's... I don't like
them for this at all.

On the other hand, people talk of them for having a better Force Feedback, which to me it
doesn't mean better because being, let's say, more sensible, and offering more detail is
not a good thing simply because today's most good wheels already offer a lot of detail
or information, and with that much info going on it gets distracting and confusing, you
don't know if you just felt a bump or a slide or understeer or a flat spot or all these
together at the same time. More and more is not better. I preffer more simplicity.

And, don''t forget, real cars don't give this much of information nor with such big strength
to your hands through a wheel.

But... you know what, the industry must be creating new products in order to keep selling
and selling and selling..

Have you tried to DD to have such a strong opinion?

 

[Evert Geurtsen]

I have a Fanatec DD1. Bought it secondhand for a little less than it would have been new but it was one of the early units and developed a problem with the power button. Fanatec did the repair under warranty very promptly; all my sim eqt is Fanatec and I had only good experience with their quality and service.
The DD was an upgrade from the CSL Elite which worked great but creaked a little under strain and was quite noisy with the fan running. I also found that on very fast moves (e.g. the first chicane on Monza) it got a bit imprecise. The DD1 is quiet and solid and overall a nice experience but I couldn't say if the Fanatec CSW would not be just as good.

 

[dave kirk]

I have a Fanatec DD1. Bought it secondhand for a little less than it would have been new but it was one of the early units and developed a problem with the power button. Fanatec did the repair under warranty very promptly; all my sim eqt is Fanatec and I had only good experience with their quality and service.
The DD was an upgrade from the CSL Elite which worked great but creaked a little under strain and was quite noisy with the fan running. I also found that on very fast moves (e.g. the first chicane on Monza) it got a bit imprecise. The DD1 is quiet and solid and overall a nice experience but I couldn't say if the Fanatec CSW would not be just as good.

I've had both the CSE 2.5 and DD, and i can say it's not as good

 

[passenger]

Have you tried to DD to have such a strong opinion?

Of course I have.

Why do you ask? Don't you think this "strong opinion" is realistic?

Don't you think that these wheels are very very expensive?
Don't you think that these wheels are way too strong or poweful, hence risky?
Don't you think that these wheels offer too much detail or information and this may be
unrealistic and confusing?

Most people I know who have DD wheels, included in this forum, think that the above is right.
An owner of one has just posted in this thread that he has his DD wheel set up at only 30%. I
wish he never has a problem with it going wild and damaging him or anybody, nor the wheel breaks itself, but I find these wheels unnecessary strong.

 

[dave kirk]

Of course I have.

Why do you ask? Don't you think this "strong opinion" is realistic?

Don't you think that these wheels are very very expensive?
Don't you think that these wheels are way too strong or poweful, hence risky?
Don't you think that these wheels offer too much detail or information and this may be
unrealistic and confusing?

Most people I know who have DD wheels, included in this forum, think that the above is right.
An owner of one has just posted in this thread that he has his DD wheel set up at only 30%. I
wish he never has a problem with it going wild and damaging him or anybody, nor the wheel breaks itself, but I find these wheels unnecessary strong.

I totally agree they are expensive, but some of the stuff you've said in the second paragraph was just nonsense lol

 

[Keith_G]

Seems like we have no lack of opinions but I do have a Fanatec V2.5 and upgraded to a DD2. In my opinion (see, we all have one) it is an improvement but a slight one. More powerful for sure but mostly I enjoy the subtle feedback that I didn't seem to get in the 2.5. The power is actually not a big deal because you really can't use it too much unless you are using your sim rig to workout with. The subtle feeling is nice and I enjoy the wheel but is it worth the money.... depends on your situation and what you want to spend your money on. I am retired and have enough money to enjoy life and this is my primary hobby so I'm fine with it. 20 years ago I doubt I could have justified the expense. I have enjoyed racing games for the last 25-30 years and my first wheel was from A.C.T. and I thought I was in heaven- then a logitech MoMo etc. each one was an improvement and I have had no problems with Fanatec or there service and have owned every version of the Clubsport wheelbase. Love the DD2 base but have enjoyed them all so no need to spend money you don't have if you like the wheel you have now.
As an aside: I think the one thing that made my racing much better was upgrading my pedals to the Heusinkveld ultimates. If you have money to spend and want to improve your experience the most; then I would suggest upgrading pedals before your wheel base.

 

[passenger]

I totally agree they are expensive, but some of the stuff you've said in the second paragraph was just nonsense lol

Disrespectful commentary. In a few seconds you will be added to the Ignore list.

 

[Matt Byers]

I bought a Accuforce v2 base a year or so ago. Bolted a $40 round rim from eBay to it and ran like that for 6 months until I could purchase a couple usb conversions for my 2 Fanatec rims. I recently hooked my v2.5 Fanatec base up and was quite shocked at the difference between the two. Going DD is not cheap, but for me, a little at a time and some patience has certainly paid off.

 

[MattBedford]

I have the DD1, which has been replaced once already, so yes, there have been issues with quality and durability, because it's a new product with limited real-life testing. I have to agree with many that a DD will not make you faster, nor do you need all that torque. I have driven most real-life modern Ferraris (488 GTB, FF, F12, 430, 612, 360 etc) along with all the Maseratis and they don't feel heavy at all like what the DD wheels can produce, so turn it right down to what you think you feel in your own car. In terms of being fast, we are talking about competitive online racing and in that case you can be faster by switching to T-Camera view. I prefer to be slower and race in Cockpit view for the overall experience. I can't understand why anyone likes T-Camera view, as the view feels like you are driving in a truck seat position. It's a competitive advantage though.

Could not agree more on the T cam view. It is faster as its easier from up there but does ruin the immersion. Has to be cockpit view for me also !

 

[Deleted member 197115]

There are two kind of people, happy DD owners, and sour grapes who can't afford one.
On brand I'd go with Simucube. Have been on their hardware since 2015, these things are undestructable.

 

[RaceNut]

I love DD-wheels.

• Does a DD-wheel make me faster? It did at first but, I'm not a threat to any racer no matter what hardware I'm using.
• Does it make me more consistent? Absolutely.
• Is the FFB more immersive? Abso.f'n'.lutely! However, YMMV.
• Is it worth the money? Yes! For me, a No Brainer. (Keep related comments to yourself please.)
• Is durability a plus? Yes, generally.
• Does it matter what others think about me having one? Nope. But I actually have two of them.
• Do I need that much torque? Not at all. @20Nm, I typically use about 35-45%.
• Does the extra margin (torque) help? Yes, clipping is a non-issue and I can increase strength for short stints if desired. More range is a good thing.
• Does a DD-wheel serve as a workout device? It can in theory, but you may develop grotesque forearms and shoulders compared to the rest of your body.
• If I have to borrow money to own one, should I? No.
• Can tuning FFB become a hobby in itself? Yes. I've totally done that, been there.
• Is tuning FFB using a DD-wheel difficult? Not really, there are ways to make it complex or very easy.
• Do I need a race-rig to use a DD-wheel? Not necessarily but, you do need something solid to mount one too. I have mine mounted to my desk.
• Will owning a DD-wheel make me happy? I'm happy I have one and it renewed my appreciation of Sim-racing in a very big way.
• Can I get hurt using a DD-wheel? Sure, but you can also fall down some stairs, fall off a bike, or spill hot coffee on your stick-shift.

Did I mention that I love DD-wheels?

 

[Kyuubeey]

I don't have a DD wheel, but from videos I have seen you should think of it as a giant, powerful speaker vs the speaker in your phone. Both can produce sound, but the big one has a lot more range, therefore it can produce every little detail without distortion or affecting other tones. Same would be with DD - even mid corner with downforce and steering forces you will be able to feel small cracks in tarmec on top of that. But G27 will give you just a buzz or grinding of the cogs.

Just a sidenote, but there aren't any small cracks in the tarmac modelled in any physics mesh I've ever looked at. If my understanding is correct, you can feel the rumble-based noise mesh mid-corner just fine on most wheels, because it's not producing a torque force.

 

[Vitor M Sousa]

You guys should stop posting. I'm considering a upgrade from my G25 and was looking into either a CSW 2.5 or a Direct drive wheel, probably a Fanatec too because of the wheel rims. Didn't want to spend so much money
But since travel might take some time to be safe I think I'll have the money for it

 

[giga1tr]

I've had both the CSE 2.5 and DD, and i can say it's not as good

Ok, but is the podium twice as good as the CSW 2.5? the price is it.
That is the question I am asking myself.

 

[Keith_G]

Ok, but is the podium twice as good as the CSW 2.5? the price is it.
That is the question I am asking myself.

It feels like it will last twice as long for sure! Is the driving experience twice as good, not for me but I'm sure that varies. Besides it looks really cool on my rig

 

[RasmusP]

I personally don't need a dd wheel instead of my csw 2.5 because dd wheels would offer:
- more force
- more details
- higher rotation speed
- less constant mechanical friction

Now I own my csw for a good year and I can say:
- I mostly don't use 100% base power
- I tame the details (rF2 smoothing at 6, acc I use some smoothing from the wheel (fei at 80)
- I use the constant, artificial friction on step 2 of 5 (dri at -2)
- I liked the ts-pc racer more regarding the feel in the center position while driving straight.
Actually I'd like the csw to not be as smooth and frictionless...

But hey I know there are a lot of people who run rF2 at 100% base power (more than 8 Nm in the DD software) and use the rF2 smoothing at 0 or 1.
These people definitely need a dd wheel.
Also the fine tuning possibilities of inertia and friction in the simucube software or the telemetry based ffb of the accuforce would be something I would like to have!

Coming from a g27 for 3 years and a ts-pc for 3 weeks, everything I wanted to be improved is improved beyond of what I actually like to drive with now with my csw 2.5!
The csl elite btw wouldn't be enough for that.

 

[CC]

I personally don't need a dd wheel instead of my csw 2.5 because dd wheels would offer:
- more force
- more details
- higher rotation speed
- less constant mechanical friction

Now I own my csw for a good year and I can say:
- I mostly don't use 100% base power
- I tame the details (rF2 smoothing at 6, acc I use some smoothing from the wheel (fei at 80)
- I use the constant, artificial friction on step 2 of 5 (dri at -2)
- I liked the ts-pc racer more regarding the feel in the center position while driving straight.
Actually I'd like the csw to not be as smooth and frictionless...

But hey I know there are a lot of people who run rF2 at 100% base power (more than 8 Nm in the DD software) and use the rF2 smoothing at 0 or 1.
These people definitely need a dd wheel.
Also the fine tuning possibilities of inertia and friction in the simucube software or the telemetry based ffb of the accuforce would be something I would like to have!

Coming from a g27 for 3 years and a ts-pc for 3 weeks, everything I wanted to be improved is improved beyond of what I actually like to drive with now with my csw 2.5!
The csl elite btw wouldn't be enough for that.

I just got this DD2 well waiting for it to come,
its not for the force of the thing what interests me its the "responsiveness" what the DD offers + the extra detail,
you cant compare Belt Drive to Direct Drive there is nothing to compare.