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Featured DiRT 2.0 Update 1.4 Released - FFB Update Next Week

Discussion in 'DiRT Rally 2.0' started by Paul Jeffrey, May 15, 2019.

  1. Lino Carreira

    Lino Carreira

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    Assetto corsa does that, if you define an H shifter it even forces you to play with it unless you go to controls and say you dont have one ! with cars that have H shifter irl obviously!

    iRacing Warns you if you have the wrong type of shifter selected for the given car so in theory is the same as AC ... except it doesn't force you to use it if defined!
     
  2. Hoksu

    Hoksu

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    Here. https://i.redd.it/w4o9kbfegdo21.jpg

    You select that option then it changes with the car, so you use the kind of transmission the real car has. Dirt 4 lacked the option, Dirt Rally 2.0 lacks the option, and Codies refuse to add it despite countless players reportin it. Boggles the mind

    The fact that Codies refuse to fix something that rudimentary doesn't really make me optimistic about their ability to fix the broken FFB.
     
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  3. kondor999

    kondor999

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    Truthfully, have you ever driven off-road yourself? I'm just asking, not trying to be a jerk. It's not something a lot of people have done.

    While I've never once been in (or near!) a rally car, I've owned a stripped-out 2004 WRX that me and my kid took out plenty of times and ran it on gravel (tore the crap out of it - not recommended). And I grew up driving on dirt and gravel. Maybe these modern rally cars all have really lightweight power steering or something.

    And why do they feel the need to revise the FFB if it's already fine?
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2019
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  4. Hoksu

    Hoksu

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    Is it, though? Please provide something to support that claim. That real rally drivers were involved in development in some capacity does not prove that.
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2019
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  5. A.K.Racing

    A.K.Racing

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    say this all to OLD RBR where FFB coming direct from suspension!2004 sim can with easy outrun this crap 2.0
     
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  6. A.K.Racing

    A.K.Racing

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    LIght steering nothing to do with suspension fx!suspension fx is missing!I also run cars on gravel and in real car you can feel each of the bump or even each stone what hit your tire!So those who saying ffb is fine they playing with mouse or pad and never driven real car specially on gravel!For me I don't have any problem cause accuforce have its own FFB direct from the physics!But without foundation FFB this game is useless!
     
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  7. RCHeliguy

    RCHeliguy
    Premium

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    Does it just allow both to be used all the time or does it actually enforce one of the other depending on the car.
     
  8. Martin Fiala

    Martin Fiala
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    Yes.

    Because they're a business, and a noticeable amount of their customer base is not happy with the result, also driving off potential future customers in the process (and frankly, even current customers). Very few businesses can afford to stand up to their own customers and say "we think what we've delivered is fine, we stand by it and your expectations are wrong". That's not how you make money (not in the longer term at least). "The customer is always right" is how you make money.
    Also note that they're absolutely not saying "you're right, the FFB is messed up, we will fix it ASAP". They're saying "we think what we delivered is fine and there's plenty of people who agree, but we'll still try to tweak it so that we hopefully don't break what we got while making the people who complain happier", which is a lot more closer to "we think we are right and you are wrong", just in a lot more diplomatic and forthcoming way.

    In fact, let me directly quote Christina from CM as the quote is very relevant to the entire FFB discussion:

    And finally, just on the point of FFB: with DiRT Rally 2.0 we very much focused on simulating the effects that come through the front wheels as purely as possible, and we (and external validators) were pleased with how authentic the simulation felt in that regard. However on previous games, rather than just science, we used a little more art in some of the effects (especially with regards to the chassis effects, environmental effects, etc) - and that's the area where we've seen the most feedback.
    We didn't think we were launching it 'broken' and felt we had achieved and validated a realistic representation of steering feedback when driving a rally car.
    The sheer volume of [negative] feedback we've had definitely took us by surprise, and it's taken us a considerable amount of time to find something that a/ tackles the feedback we've had, and b/ is still an improvement on all previous iterations of DiRT games. We're getting there, and I look forward to sharing with you in the coming weeks when these changes/options will arrive. Our car handling team have done an absolutely stellar job when it comes to DiRT, and they've been valiant in going through the more nuanced feedback we've received about how it feels.


    As for "how much input they actually had from real drivers", it has been stated (and for all intents and purposes confirmed) that at least Jon Armstrong, who has both extensive real life and simracing experience, has been basically working with CM on a 9-5 basis for most of the game's development. But people can obviously choose not to believe that, that's their prerogative.

    (Yeah, I'm not very good at this "signing off" thing...:/ )
     
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  9. kondor999

    kondor999

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    How did you feel about the FFB on tarmac in DR 1.0?

    You do realize that I can pull highly similar quotes from real drivers re: the supposed absolute perfection of PC2's FFB, right? They had plenty of pro drivers sign off on that as well. Of course, they're on the payroll.

    But Hey, I will re-install and try it again. Any suggestions re: the FFB settings in-game?
     
  10. Hoksu

    Hoksu

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    They have had input from real drivers, but that really does not prove the FFB is exactly like a real rally car. You are making an assertion that you cannot prove.

    Jon Armstron making a detailed post/video explaining how the FFB is just like a real rally car, if that's the case, would be quite a lot more convincing response to the overwhelming criticism than Christina's corporate marketing nonsense."external validators were pleased" Right, I'm sure they were.
     
  11. Martin Fiala

    Martin Fiala
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    Somewhat vague, but not nearly as bad as many would make it.


    Call me naive (you wouldn't be the first nor last to do so), but I don't like generally approach things with the assumption people are lying to me because they're paid. Not unless I'm given a reason to believe so. I don't have a very high opinion of humans as a whole, but I still like to assume people as individuals tend to be honest and truthful save for maybe a few exceptions. So while yes, I'm absolutely certain you could find real drivers supporting any claim you want, it's just that your explanation for that would be "they're on the payroll, man!", while mine would simply be "well I guess this is their honest opinion on how things are IRL or at least how the real life should translate to FFB". Especially given that basically anything to do with human perception is wildly subjective and to an extent quite unreliable.

    I can only tell you what I use: https://www.racedepartment.com/threads/my-t300-ffb-settings.165919/
     
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  12. Martin Fiala

    Martin Fiala
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    Does this count?

    https://www.facebook.com/Thrustmast...6029474860077/404581700352298/?type=2&theater

    Mind you, I completely disagree on setting Damper to 0, because it's an outdated concept that also has the side effect of the Tyre Friction setting having no effect, so it basically makes you lose tyre grip effects (something many DR2 users complain about, unsurprisingly).
     
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  13. RasmusP

    RasmusP
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    Last week I was at the beach of St Peter Ording, North Sea.
    There's a pretty gigantic flat and very drivable sand-parking lot. Without a semi slip diff or esp you should watch where to come to a stop though, some places are pretty "powder" like.
    So I was there very late, still good light to see everything but basically no other car driving.

    So I decided to give my wonky old rwd c-class a spin for its money and drifted the heck out of it.
    I can just say, the steering wheel was like dead pudding. The chassis was shakey, I felt a lot of adrenaline and excitement but really, the steering wheel was dead apart from a bit of running into opposite lock.
    Went through bumps and ruts and stuff. Nothing.

    Felt pretty much like dirt rally 2 :D

    The problem, as frequently stated: I had everything else too and not only my wheel!

    So I hope that the update will bring some "art" into the ffb to make it fun again and let you feel the rest of the car although the steering wheel shouldn't contain these things.

    Btw, ruts etc on tarmac are very lively in my real car's steering wheel! But in the sand, there's nothing!
     
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  14. Hoksu

    Hoksu

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    Advertisement by Thrustmaster. Not detailed, certainly not as far as real cars are concerned. So nope, not quite what I was after. Still waiting for the evidence that the FFB is just like a real rally car.

    Also I noticed he says he uses 540 degrees because that is what most modern rally cars use. There are quite a few not-modern cars in Dirt Rally 2.0. Even if an R5 car has a really light wheel, did cars in 70s and 80s have? FFB has to work with all cars and not just modern ones.
     
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  15. Glenn Campbell

    Glenn Campbell

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    Wake me when the VR patch is available...Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.
     
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  16. ShredatorFIN

    ShredatorFIN

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    You select one method like H+clutch, and that's it for all cars. Unless you go into menu to switch it every time. They said this feature is going to get patched, but "it's not high on the priority list".

    Who would've thought that sim racers may want to use authentic shifting method in a simulator...
     
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  17. kondor999

    kondor999

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    Thanks for those settings.

    I think you're naive, I'm afraid. Like I said, PC2 also had on-payroll drivers telling us the FFB and physics were incredible. I'd much rather hear from a driver who isn't getting paid by the very developers whose work they are "reviewing".

    The on-tarmac FFB in DR 1.0 has got to be the worst, most vague, nearly useless FFB I've ever experienced. No one who's done even causal amateur-level racing (or even just drifting/autocrossing in a parking lot) could fail to notice that. Real cars do not feel like that. If they did, I'd have long since flown off one of the bleacher turns at COTA, wondering why I never noticed the incipient understeer.

    Your assertion that, essentially, FFB is purely subjective is specious. What you're really saying is "I don't know how it's supposed to feel, so it's totally subjective." That's a logical error. You're assuming other people can't tell if FFB feels like a real car. FFB is like anything else: Some implementations are better than others.
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2019
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  18. ozm8ey

    ozm8ey

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    Kinda a bit late to fix the ffb everyone has already gotten over the game by now. Should have been good on day one.
     
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  19. GRaFkiyv

    GRaFkiyv

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    2 weeks ago I traveled to the Logitech EX and the FF was normal, as in the first part DiRT Rally. :)
    But when I bought the T300RS, I realized why Thrustmaster's head hair was torn off, it's a scary FF on the T300RS. :mad:
     
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