Webber was not going slow, he had his engine turned down to conserve tires, like he was told too. Vettel kept his engine high and attacked him directly after Webbers pitstop, something which Webber didn't expect until he was right on top of him.
Did Vettel go too far this time?
- Thread starter Kyle Dunning
- Start date
Reik Major
Premium
I thought Vettel was also on a different (quicker?) compound at this stage and therefore faster?
I don't agree with what Vettel did..... but are they racing drivers?
With all that has been happening with Webber and Vettel over the last few days, about Webber deciding whether or not he wants to leave red bull, i think, if red bull want to keep Webber they should show that they trust him by not using Sebastian Vettel at the Chinese Grand Prix and instead use Sebastian Buemi, red bulls test driver. Yes it is a risky move when considering the championship, but, i do think that they can still get a decent amount of points that weekend if Webber and Buemi because team mates for that race. Its a very unlikely move, but i do think it would keep Webber around.
I think Vettel is a brat.
I lost respect for him after he did the loco sign in Turkey 2010, and, I lost even more respect after he disobeyed team orders, while I don't wholly approve of them, they are orders and superiors should be obeyed.
I really wish Webber would have knocked him into the wall.
I like how Webber is handling the situation; not so much for Seb.
I lost respect for him after he did the loco sign in Turkey 2010, and, I lost even more respect after he disobeyed team orders, while I don't wholly approve of them, they are orders and superiors should be obeyed.
I really wish Webber would have knocked him into the wall.
I like how Webber is handling the situation; not so much for Seb.
I think that Webber is over reacting. He lost the race, he was the slower driver, he let Vettel pass. Everybody keeps talking about how Webber had the 'right' to win. This is motorsport, you don't have a 'right' to do something like that. It's a race, you race to win, and Vettel raced better than Webber did.
It was poorly timed. Vettel came out right behind Webber. If he came out in front, he would have won. He was clearly irritated because he knew he was the faster car, and by luck of the draw, came out behind a slower car. This car happened to be his teammate. It's clear that Red Bull didn't plan their strategy around having Webber win, and Vettel second, they just wanted to have a 1-2 - regardless of what order their drivers were in - and gave the order to ensure that both cars got home safely.
There's a rumor about how Webber is considering his position at Red Bull, and that maybe Red Bull should shift their focus to him over Vettel. Given that Vettel is a 3 time world champion, I really can't see that happening.
Even though Vettel disobeyed team orders, which he shouldn't have done, I don't think it's really a big deal. He's the better driver, statistically. He wants to collate more points, to make his position in the drivers standing more secure. I think that Horner should have told Webber to let Vettel pass him. Vettel was clearly faster, Vettel is much more of a contender for the driver's championship than Webber is, and Vettel needs the points to edge out the other teams.
Some people are going as far to say that Vettel should be dismissed from the team - which I can not see happening. The second it happens, if it did, it'd just open up the driver for other teams to take. For example, Ferrari, who conveniently have Massa on a short contract - which would just let them have Alonso & Vettel on one team. Red Bull would not let that happen.
My strong underlying dislike of Webber is probably clear here!
I just don't like his attitude off camera, he seems somewhat self-centered & cocky, even though his racing history doesn't exactly support that.
It was poorly timed. Vettel came out right behind Webber. If he came out in front, he would have won. He was clearly irritated because he knew he was the faster car, and by luck of the draw, came out behind a slower car. This car happened to be his teammate. It's clear that Red Bull didn't plan their strategy around having Webber win, and Vettel second, they just wanted to have a 1-2 - regardless of what order their drivers were in - and gave the order to ensure that both cars got home safely.
There's a rumor about how Webber is considering his position at Red Bull, and that maybe Red Bull should shift their focus to him over Vettel. Given that Vettel is a 3 time world champion, I really can't see that happening.
Even though Vettel disobeyed team orders, which he shouldn't have done, I don't think it's really a big deal. He's the better driver, statistically. He wants to collate more points, to make his position in the drivers standing more secure. I think that Horner should have told Webber to let Vettel pass him. Vettel was clearly faster, Vettel is much more of a contender for the driver's championship than Webber is, and Vettel needs the points to edge out the other teams.
Some people are going as far to say that Vettel should be dismissed from the team - which I can not see happening. The second it happens, if it did, it'd just open up the driver for other teams to take. For example, Ferrari, who conveniently have Massa on a short contract - which would just let them have Alonso & Vettel on one team. Red Bull would not let that happen.
My strong underlying dislike of Webber is probably clear here!
I just don't like his attitude off camera, he seems somewhat self-centered & cocky, even though his racing history doesn't exactly support that.
Howard, you might be right in your last part there.
The time difference around the last pitstop (when Vettel pitted) was 5 sec, I truly believe that Webber slowed somewhat down (ran on the delta-time) when Vettel pitted, and that's why it was that tight when Webber came out of the pit. If Webber had pushed hard, it wouldn't been that tight, and the situation would've been entirely different.
The time difference around the last pitstop (when Vettel pitted) was 5 sec, I truly believe that Webber slowed somewhat down (ran on the delta-time) when Vettel pitted, and that's why it was that tight when Webber came out of the pit. If Webber had pushed hard, it wouldn't been that tight, and the situation would've been entirely different.
Bingo. "1:41´s Webber"
And of course engine turned down.
But someone said "F u i´m not doing that" and stole a win.
He also lied on TV saying he had no idea about it even though Horner said he deliberately disobeyed the team orders and what we heard on the radio he was told once to hold a 3 second gap to Webber (since Webber was in cruise mode)
If you are going to win do it properly and on equal terms.
What goes around ,comes around...and Webber should know that all to well
My strong underlying dislike of Webber is probably clear here!
I have met Mark Webber in person and had a few minute chat with him when he was a little younger, and my company was sponsoring his car before he entered to F1.
I can tell you that your assumptions of Mark Webber are totally wrong. He's quite the opposite of what you've described him to be actually.
Mark Webber is a sound individual and will tell you straight up. He is the kind of guy who will smile when hes happy, and frown when hes annoyed, and when hes pissed, he won't just hide it away.
Vettel tried to limit the damage, by saying that the team should talk about it internally, but Webber was ready to address the situation immediately. If Vettel had known for a 100% fact that he had made a legitimate mistake, he would have owned up to it right away. Instead he decided to ramble on about how it was a hot day, and how they managed the tires, anything but the actual subject people were interested in. Webber had every right to be annoyed, and Vettel had every right to be ashamed of himself.
Team Orders has always been a part of racing. Of course in "racing", you always want to come first and beat your team mate, but if coming first is due to pure exploitation of a team order, and at the expense of the trust and relationship between your team mate, then that win becomes a very hollow one which could only backfire later.
Any driver who has ever won a championship, has done so because the "team" was in tandem. They are oiled up together as well as the cogs and springs within the car, and thats not just the winning driver, but also a strong relationship between them and their team mate. There have been many instances where team mates have fought over the title and it has only backfired, and possibly lost them the title. Alonso and Hamiltion in 2007 comes to mind as a recent example.
Webber has supported Vettel by driving superbly over the last few years, and the only times he hasn't is usually always down to things out of his control, like KERS issues and people crashing into him. I see a lot of mixed feelings on this subject of "racing", and that Vettel had every right to do what he did, but in reality, the team told him to do something, and he purposely disobeyed and put his own goals above his teams. No one man is bigger then a team, not even guys like Senna, Schumacher or any other World Champion in the history of F1 can say they would have won those titles in a bad team that didn't work together.
Vettel should have realised that Mark needed those extra points. In recent years he has been in his shadow, and to have Mark win the race would have benefited him as well. Vettel is usually more consistent, and at this early point in the season, having Webber win the race would have helped the Constructors a lot. Of course, any driver wants to win every single race they can, but they also need to work with their team, because when the team is in high spirits, the team works better for you, and when you betray your teams trust, the opposite effect is not going to help your chances at a fourth World Championship.
He may have won, but it may have been his most costly "win" of his whole career, and he didn't actually beat Webber fairly, he took advantage of a situation and assumed no one would care.
Vettel tried to limit the damage, by saying that the team should talk about it internally, but Webber was ready to address the situation immediately. If Vettel had known for a 100% fact that he had made a legitimate mistake, he would have owned up to it right away. Instead he decided to ramble on about how it was a hot day, and how they managed the tires, anything but the actual subject people were interested in. Webber had every right to be annoyed, and Vettel had every right to be ashamed of himself.
Team Orders has always been a part of racing. Of course in "racing", you always want to come first and beat your team mate, but if coming first is due to pure exploitation of a team order, and at the expense of the trust and relationship between your team mate, then that win becomes a very hollow one which could only backfire later.
Any driver who has ever won a championship, has done so because the "team" was in tandem. They are oiled up together as well as the cogs and springs within the car, and thats not just the winning driver, but also a strong relationship between them and their team mate. There have been many instances where team mates have fought over the title and it has only backfired, and possibly lost them the title. Alonso and Hamiltion in 2007 comes to mind as a recent example.
Webber has supported Vettel by driving superbly over the last few years, and the only times he hasn't is usually always down to things out of his control, like KERS issues and people crashing into him. I see a lot of mixed feelings on this subject of "racing", and that Vettel had every right to do what he did, but in reality, the team told him to do something, and he purposely disobeyed and put his own goals above his teams. No one man is bigger then a team, not even guys like Senna, Schumacher or any other World Champion in the history of F1 can say they would have won those titles in a bad team that didn't work together.
Vettel should have realised that Mark needed those extra points. In recent years he has been in his shadow, and to have Mark win the race would have benefited him as well. Vettel is usually more consistent, and at this early point in the season, having Webber win the race would have helped the Constructors a lot. Of course, any driver wants to win every single race they can, but they also need to work with their team, because when the team is in high spirits, the team works better for you, and when you betray your teams trust, the opposite effect is not going to help your chances at a fourth World Championship.
He may have won, but it may have been his most costly "win" of his whole career, and he didn't actually beat Webber fairly, he took advantage of a situation and assumed no one would care.
Wouldn't it be ironic if during the last race of this season and with Vettel close to the opposition points-wise and fighting for the championship.... Mark blocks him then retires from RBR.
It was a rather foolish and selfish move.
He needs to learn that he cannot win all the time.
This is just the latest of these moves.
Calling people cucumber, disobeying a direct order from his boss....
Who else gets to do that?
It was a rather foolish and selfish move.
He needs to learn that he cannot win all the time.
This is just the latest of these moves.
Calling people cucumber, disobeying a direct order from his boss....
Who else gets to do that?
Reik Major
Premium
That's true!
Too many people forget that F1 is a team sport. Not only because of having a team mate but having hundreds of people working for the whole team. Considering that I like to state again that I'm not supporting Vettels move.
But as I said before it's a sad truth that you sometimes have to make such unpopulare things to finally become the big champ and no one will remember it later.
Hello everyone quite new here, usually reads only. This time I want to respond
Right vettel total seems a nice guy, but behind his nice, pink pig is very ugly and it's clear to everyone why? Right? You people are Intelligent, How many times Weber helped him at the races probably not really care anyone he wants as much as possible only to him only for himself is ugly is not sporty, is we are all human and dreaming of glory but before all this sport and you have to remember to be human, and not to knock knife in the back and then apologize, vettel not a child grows he understands and knows everything and its dirt play...
Look at the Rosberg so talented swallowed what his team agonized said quietly I wish him well best and it's time we see him more podium or even win deserves!
Right vettel total seems a nice guy, but behind his nice, pink pig is very ugly and it's clear to everyone why? Right? You people are Intelligent, How many times Weber helped him at the races probably not really care anyone he wants as much as possible only to him only for himself is ugly is not sporty, is we are all human and dreaming of glory but before all this sport and you have to remember to be human, and not to knock knife in the back and then apologize, vettel not a child grows he understands and knows everything and its dirt play...
Look at the Rosberg so talented swallowed what his team agonized said quietly I wish him well best and it's time we see him more podium or even win deserves!
Vettel would do it again!
Glad , Now He openly told this so we won't need any more Further discussions about the Row of Vettel V Webber.
On Other Note Redbull Stated that There is no Pre-Race Agreement
I guess that shows how much his apology the other week is worth.
Why did he even bother with that 'stupid' farce of an apology?
It clearly was not genuine or heart-felt.
Whether Vettel could have caught and passed Webber (both at full race power), before the end of the GP is unknown.
Calling his teammate undeserving is rather stupid, since he (Webber) was ahead at the time of the team order.
Vettel is a great driver.. but..
he needs to 'learn' that he cannot win every race. He needs to 'look' around at the other top drivers and take a page from their book where loss is concerned.
Look at Fernando, Lewis, Kimi...
When they lose a race..sure they're disappointed.The difference is they quickly mention the potential points lost, commend their rivals on a race well fought, then look forward to the next race. They do not publicly sulk and get mad.
This kid does. It's 'written' all over his face for all to see.
He seems to want other drivers from lower teams to just 'step' aside when he shows up in their rear view mirrors. It's a rather arrogant approach. He needs to sit down and reflect on his Torro Rosso days before RBR.
That's where the new, upcoming drivers are right now. Calling them names doesn't cut it.
Everybody on that circuit is racing...not just the top teams. He needs to understand that.
Go back and review any video you have since he became WDC when things have not gone his way. It's quite apparent and not very easy to overlook.
It clearly was not genuine or heart-felt.
Whether Vettel could have caught and passed Webber (both at full race power), before the end of the GP is unknown.
Calling his teammate undeserving is rather stupid, since he (Webber) was ahead at the time of the team order.
Vettel is a great driver.. but..
he needs to 'learn' that he cannot win every race. He needs to 'look' around at the other top drivers and take a page from their book where loss is concerned.
Look at Fernando, Lewis, Kimi...
When they lose a race..sure they're disappointed.The difference is they quickly mention the potential points lost, commend their rivals on a race well fought, then look forward to the next race. They do not publicly sulk and get mad.
This kid does. It's 'written' all over his face for all to see.
He seems to want other drivers from lower teams to just 'step' aside when he shows up in their rear view mirrors. It's a rather arrogant approach. He needs to sit down and reflect on his Torro Rosso days before RBR.
That's where the new, upcoming drivers are right now. Calling them names doesn't cut it.
Everybody on that circuit is racing...not just the top teams. He needs to understand that.
Go back and review any video you have since he became WDC when things have not gone his way. It's quite apparent and not very easy to overlook.
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