DD1 FFB Danger!

[OZ67]

Hello , My FFB settings are great , I don't have them very strong as I don't want to tear my old shoulders. The problem is when the car reaches it's full Angle of steering which in the F1 Ultimate maybe 360 or so I have in Auto sen , Anyway when full lock at hairpin at monaco gp the wheel hits back hard and is dangerous ? can this hit back at full lock be toned down independently? Also any car if I spin and the wheel gets to full angle , Smash'O!! potential broken fingers or wrist .Cheers for any help.

 

[Kurupt CDN]

Reduce the strength even more.....or sell it and buy a less powerful wheel.

 

[passenger]

That's the thing with DD wheels, they produce way too much strengh and in
some circunstances they can can surprise you with that excesive strengh,
and can hurt your wrist and arms. I wouldn't use more than 30% of its
strengh, and even 30% is already very risky.

 

[RasmusP]

What do you mean with "My settings aren't very strong"?
Low game FFB or low BASE ffb?

There are 2 different lock-stops:
- the game sends out 100% game-ffb when you hit the end of the rotation
- the base gives an afaik adjustable resistance when hitting the end of its set rotation

So if you have the base at 100% and the game at 10%, the rotation stop will give you full base strength with 100%/100% = 100%.

If you have the base at 50% and the game 20%, the rotation stop will give you only 100%/50% = 50%.

To have no clipping and great dynamic ffb, almost all sims/games are great at 30-60%.
If you keep the overall ffb strength at the same average level, you can adjust the dynamic of the ffb.

30% game, 100% base = 30% average, 100% peak force = 6.67 nm average, 20 nm peak
60% game, 50% base = 30% average, 50% peak force = 6.67 nm average, 10 nm peak

---- a bit of blahblah---:

I'm not sure what the DD1 software can do but I imagine that you can adjust the rotation-lock-resistance strength like you can with a simucube 2?

And also I'm not sure if lowering the maximum torque will also lower the maximum acceleration? Is the responsiveness lowered when lowering peak torque?
In theory the torque isn't "breaking fingers", it's rotation speed + torque. So peak torque should only be lowered after the inertia is overcome or when the driver is holding against the ffb.

 

[Deleted member 197115]

Blame runaway ffb signal on wheel.

 

[OZ67]

What do you mean with "My settings aren't very strong"?
Low game FFB or low BASE ffb?

There are 2 different lock-stops:
- the game sends out 100% game-ffb when you hit the end of the rotation
- the base gives an afaik adjustable resistance when hitting the end of its set rotation

So if you have the base at 100% and the game at 10%, the rotation stop will give you full base strength with 100%/100% = 100%.

If you have the base at 50% and the game 20%, the rotation stop will give you only 100%/50% = 50%.

To have no clipping and great dynamic ffb, almost all sims/games are great at 30-60%.
If you keep the overall ffb strength at the same average level, you can adjust the dynamic of the ffb.

30% game, 100% base = 30% average, 100% peak force = 6.67 nm average, 20 nm peak
60% game, 50% base = 30% average, 50% peak force = 6.67 nm average, 10 nm peak

---- a bit of blahblah---:

I'm not sure what the DD1 software can do but I imagine that you can adjust the rotation-lock-resistance strength like you can with a simucube 2?

And also I'm not sure if lowering the maximum torque will also lower the maximum acceleration? Is the responsiveness lowered when lowering peak torque?
In theory the torque isn't "breaking fingers", it's rotation speed + torque. So peak torque should only be lowered after the inertia is overcome or when the driver is holding against the ffb.

Thank you for this comprehensive explanation, yes I lower it in game and 100% in base , so I’ll try your suggestion. @Kurupt DD still has much better suddle effects and information on low strength than a belt driven with full strength.

 

[RasmusP]

Thank you for this comprehensive explanation, yes I lower it in game and 100% in base , so I’ll try your suggestion. @Kurupt DD still has much better suddle effects and information on low strength than a belt driven with full strength.

A little addition:
The ffb gain is simply a multiplier, but not changing the ffb range that gets sent to the wheel.
So even with 1% gain, the game can output full 100% ffb to the wheel. But you would probably need to fully destroy the car to get the game to output that.
Or: reaching the rotation limit

At 100% gain, the game will still output 0-100% ffb to the wheel, but the average driving ffb level will be a lot higher, so the difference between driving a corner and hitting a tree or the rotation limit will be small.
Therefore you can lower the wheel strength, which, other than the game-gain, IS A LIMITER of maximum ffb level!


Btw, some clipping here and there isn't bad. FFB contains 2 informations:
strength (0-100) and direction (left/right).
Clipping means that the strength hits 100 and can't go higher but that doesn't mean that when you're riding kerbs and get L/R/L/R/L/R jolts from them, you wouldn't feel them.

It's just that the ffb won't get stronger, while changing directions according to the physics.

Having dynamic in strength is only important to feel the grip limit. The further you get to the limit, the stronger the ffb. When you reach the limit, the wheel becomes lighter again.
And when you go slightly past that limit, the ffb will change direction (oversteer).
So even when heavily clipping, you will feel, when you get oversteer.
Without clipping, you will feel the grip limit a bit earlier, before the oversteer really happens.

Also when you have a car with aero, like GT3 or F1, the ffb will become stronger the faster you drive. So you will feel that there's more grip.

My point is:
You basically want no clipping while you're driving cleanly. You want some occasional clipping when riding kerbs (so the jolts won't make you lose control or steer left/right due to you being too weak) and you definitely want clipping when crashing!

Sure, making crashing feel like actual crashing is immersive, but also breaking your hands, just like in reality

I personally mostly run 70% base strength (CSW 2.5 = ca. 8 Nm, so about 5.6 Nm max strength) and then between 50-80% game gain.
This lets me feel everything I need, while I'm able to always keep the wheel tight, if needed.
I'm only doing casual online club racing at the moment, so I like to keep it easy.

Still waaaaaayyyyyyyyyy more enjoying to drive than with my old G27!

 

[R8pilot]

Direct drive wheels can indeed be dangerous. I hurt myself (mildly, never seriously) many times in my early days using one, including in AMS2. Indeed, AMS2 was perhaps a bigger offender than some others, as it seems there's little or no compression on the higher-force end of the scale.

To compensate, I turned up the "low force" boost and reduced the over-all force feedback. This fills in the lower-end of driving feel effects so that you don't need to run as high a total force (running a low net FFB can leave you with little road feel, otherwise). I tweaked that until I thought I achieved a better balance.

However, after some time, I became so used to the behavior of the various games that I am now able to anticipate when those moments would arrive. Now I'm never hurt (famous last words), even with relatively high FFB (I have a 17 Nm base). I suspect that's a fairly common experience, though one can always be taken by surprise.

Another tip or two: Drive with your thumbs resting outside the wheel, not inside, when practical (this is an old off-roader's tip, as driving off-road can be so bumpy that your wheel can be jerked heavily in your hads). Also, a round wheel is a lot safer than the F1 type wheels.

Finally, if hitting the lock hard is your biggest problem, take a look at where your wheel-base's turning lock is compared to your in-game lock. I have the game's lock position (degrees) set a little less than the wheel-base's, under the supposition (untested) that the latter would provide only in-game maximum force at the lock vs. the wheel-base's full-strength (assuming you run the base at 100%).