Cars (DATA REPLACEMENT) Porsche 911 Carrera RSR 3.0 Improved Physics by Arch

[Fat-Alfie]

Oh dear...

 

[Kyuubeey]

Just as a little reminder...

You can go confirm it yourself if you really want. It's from design height for the stock 930 which you can find the specs for in my suspensions.ini, like track, offset, whatever.

 

[CobraCat]

Thanks. I tried the sound, but the turbo whistling bothers me, so I won't "officially" endorse it. Otherwise it'd be great.

I edited the GUID file and removed all turbo entries. I can hear transmission whine but no turbo whistling. I also replaced the interior engine audio with the exterior sounds. Gives the interior engine sound a bit more punch while driving. Closer to what I hear via the onboard videos on YT for sure.

This is a good substitute as well

https://www.racedepartment.com/downloads/porsche-2-0-liter-flat-6-use-with-any-car.27807/

 

[Kyuubeey]

I edited the GUID file and removed all turbo entries. I can hear transmission whine but no turbo whistling. I also replaced the interior engine audio with the exterior sounds. Gives the interior engine sound a bit more punch while driving. Closer to what I hear via the onboard videos on YT for sure.

This is a good substitute as well

https://www.racedepartment.com/downloads/porsche-2-0-liter-flat-6-use-with-any-car.27807/

The video above is quite nice overall, but I tried Fonsecker's Porsche pack as one user suggested, and I think I will endorse it in my mod. It's more accurate to the actual car than KS is, I feel. Although perhaps a bit loud for a car with so much interior carpet, but what do I know.

Update soon.

 

[Kyuubeey]

Kyuubeey updated (DATA REPLACEMENT) Porsche 911 Carrera RSR 3.0 Improved Physics by Arch with a new update entry:

Coils, inertia, misc

09.09.2019 Version 1.2

- Converted suspension to "coil springs" from "tbars" based on new info
- Changed inertia
- Changed rear spoiler dimensions, position, yaw sensitivity
- Changed steering lock and ratio
- Increased ARB coefficient to account for solid links
- Lowered coast torque by 10
- Adjusted one gear ratio to account for likely typo in data, thanks @Stereo
- Corrected car mass for bug/feature? in STRUT
- Corrected CoG for sprung mass calculation

Read the rest of this update entry...

 

[CobraCat]

Fonsecker is too airy IMHO, lacks that distinctive growl.

The flat6 sound mod I think is a great foundation, just need to lower the pitch a few notches and it would be almost spot on to the real car above. I've explored the bank files and I'm amazed and fascinated at how many wav files are used in the mix to create an engine sound.

 

[Leonardo Ratafiá]

I edited the GUID file and removed all turbo entries. I can hear transmission whine but no turbo whistling. I also replaced the interior engine audio with the exterior sounds. Gives the interior engine sound a bit more punch while driving. Closer to what I hear via the onboard videos on YT for sure.

This is a good substitute as well

https://www.racedepartment.com/downloads/porsche-2-0-liter-flat-6-use-with-any-car.27807/

could you share the guid.txt or tell how to remove the turbo sounds? just deleting some entries?
thanks

I think I got it, just removed the entry containing /turbo at the end

 

[Kyuubeey]

EDIT 4: Oh, and the below is for the CTR. This car is running on coils, and I believe the anti is correct enough (Seeing as 964 is fine...) so it's likely a case of bogus calculations for tbar wheel rates.

Oh dear, I'm a bit stupid aren't I. I looked at some video closely. The front dive is fine. Front is fine. It's the *rear anti lift*.

I'm going to probably need to sacrifice a little bit of anti-squat accuracy while accelerating (Not a particular issue in these cars) to get the anti-lift closer to where it should be.

EDIT: Although that won't change the front height, only angle...

The Yellowbird was quoted to have 19 (18.8) and 26mm tbars, but the production CTR1 looks stiffer. So does YB itself. Anti-dive doesn't do anything useful and I can't find a clear shot from the side during braking to confirm the dive either.

One of the only good resources is this video

At 2:40. It appears to have less dive, and less lift: stiffer tbars? Geometry? Can't figure it out...

EDIT 2: And on accel, front lift corresponds to another BM video. So it hints at front spring being close to correct.

EDIT 3: And there's of course a chance my wheelrates are simply wrong. I will recalculate. I didn't do it myself initially...

EDIT 5: And the wheelrates come out essentially correct...

I wonder what it is.

 

[CobraCat]

Best Motoring is by far the best source for seeing how a particular car performs on track. There is another of their videos with the Yellowbird racing against the F40 and some different cars.

The Ruf not doing so well isn't surprising as its barely stable in a straight line. In the corners, forget it! Gear ratios in the 930 are pretty horrible in my experience for a twisty circuit. The Ruf sacrificed handling for top speed so unless you're on the Wangan or drifting around Nords it simply doesn't have what it takes.

F40 performed as expected although the NSX-R was a bit of a surprise as was the 456GT with all that body roll in the corners.

Would have been interesting to see a Porsche 959 in the field. I suspect it would have destroyed every car with its all wheel drive, ABS and acceleration

 

[Kyuubeey]

I settled for raising the Yellowbird a bit (Based on a good video of the actual original car, not just arbitrarily) and decreasing the bumpstop stroke + playing with damping and using a slightly different estimation for the tbars. I also found out that this particular car's rear track is a bit narrower, and I can guess why.

I'm not sure if the rear lift is excessive, or if the front dive is excessive. Right now it's largely under control but I've never actually seen anyone brake a CTR @ maximum G to really know. To me it looks like they're babying it in the BM video to not lock up, and the Nordschleife video only shows braking zones during compressions so the whole car's low anyway.

I think this is about as much time as I wanna use on this one car. If it drives well, I will leave it.

 

[Kyuubeey]

Kyuubeey updated (DATA REPLACEMENT) Porsche 911 Carrera RSR 3.0 Improved Physics by Arch with a new update entry:

Front geo

11.09.2019 Version 1.3

- Changed front geometry

Read the rest of this update entry...

 

[4ph3x]

Please, go and post your data in the support thread. Currently you are making baseless claims and I think you're just looking at KS cars.

The wider track was reached via wheel spacers and lower offset wheels. You can see them in the homologation documents. It will affect the scrub radius, because they didn't relocate the strut mount.

Yes you can find the ET value of a rim. But if your WBTYRE_BOTTOM isn't properly placed you create way more offset than intended. I Presume this is the case here. Most vintage race cars have scrub radii between 10-60mm. Could also be in the Kingpin angle.

But since you know it all, please enlighten us about the rollbar - rollcenter relation in racecars. I know openwheelers have a gazillon anti-roll bar. Makes sense with negative roll-centers. On vintage racecars on the other hand....

 

[Kyuubeey]

Yes you can find the ET value of a rim. But if your WBTYRE_BOTTOM isn't properly placed you create way more offset than intended. I Presume this is the case here. Most vintage race cars have scrub radii between 10-60mm. Could also be in the Kingpin angle.

But since you know it all, please enlighten us about the rollbar - rollcenter relation in racecars. I know openwheelers have a gazillon anti-roll bar. Makes sense with negative roll-centers. On vintage racecars on the other hand....

Hey,

No, the bottom balljoint is stock and correct to a very sensible margin. I can't get 1mm accurate from the images so let's allow perhaps 10mm margin. Although I don't believe it is even so much.

I then simply lowered it via balljoint adjusters as I saw on the actual geometry of the car and replicas, and matched the SAI again. The resulting scrub radius is entirely from lower offset wheels and spacers.

Most vintage racecars aren't this much wider on the front. The E30 DTM for example didn't go nearly as wide from stock as the RSR did: thus the scrub radius is more in-line with your value. Carrera RS racers also aren't nearly this wide, and the scrub is closer to 50mm than 100mm.

The rollbar linkages aren't seriously modified, so this is what comes out with solid links.

It's ENTIRELY possible the cars actually did run on softer links, which will throw the rates down by perhaps a factor of half or more. I only found evidence pointing towards solid links: if it is incorrect and you have some real basis for the car running on soft links, please, do share! I'll correct it then.


You can actually measure it yourself IRL if you make a system for it, by installing solid links and soft urethane bushings or something and just simply testing the actual endlink force.

 

[Fat-Alfie]

Does anyone else get wild juddering / wheel oscillation under heavy braking now? This car is almost un-driveable for me, now

 

[Kyuubeey]

Does anyone else get wild juddering / wheel oscillation under heavy braking now? This car is almost un-driveable for me, now

That sounds strange. What's your setup and ingame FFB settings? Have you tried saving the profile and reloading it? Are you locking up at all?

 

[Fat-Alfie]

Wheel is only a fairly low-powered Thrustmaster TS-PC, gain set to 100% in the control panel, 100% in CM, everything else is set to 0% except gyro is on (100% damping, 30% minimum damper level). This is the only car I have felt this oscillation under braking - the stock 911 does not do it either.

It seems to happen under normal, heavy braking, not locking up, and with the steering straight. And maybe "wild" was an exaggeration on my part, but it certainly is very noticeable. The video is with me holding on to the wheel - if I let go under braking, then it oscillates wildly.

 

[CobraCat]

Wheel is only a fairly low-powered Thrustmaster TS-PC, gain set to 100% in the control panel, 100% in CM, everything else is set to 0% except gyro is on (100% damping, 30% minimum damper level). This is the only car I have felt this oscillation under braking - the stock 911 does not do it either.

It seems to happen under normal, heavy braking, not locking up, and with the steering straight. And maybe "wild" was an exaggeration on my part, but it certainly is very noticeable. The video is with me holding on to the wheel - if I let go under braking, then it oscillates wildly.

I get the same thing. Using a G29 and Rasmus custom LUT

 

[Fat-Alfie]

Oh, I forgot to mention that part of my FFB set up. No LUT, no GAMMA here.

 

[Kyuubeey]

That's...weird. I'm on a G27 and I don't get that. Nor do I see a reason why it would happen only on this car. I haven't released a stock 911, so I assume you mean the Yellowbird? How is that one?

Do any setup changes or anything do anything about it?

Also, I don't think you should have the gyroscopic effect on with the wheel you have. Could you disable it and check?

 

[Fat-Alfie]

By 'stock' I meant 'Kunos'. Gyro is on at the advice of Kunos in this thread, but I will check again with it off.
I haven't tried any set up changes, this was your default set up.